PDA

View Full Version : Canon EOS Rebel T1i Movie Mode



Dark Cobra
04-12-2009, 11:22 AM
While we're all awaiting the major reviews of this camera, I'm finding it incredibly odd that Canon would offer a HD movie mode of 1920 x 1080 at a terribly choppy (20 fps). I mean why ruin such a great HD movie mode with just 20 fps? At a minimum it should be 30 fps and more appropriately 60 fps IMHO.

The 1280 x 720 (30 fps) will be the mode most people will have to settle for in this camera. The fact that this camera uses the MPEG-4 codec is appreciated but Canon should never have offered the 1920 X 1080 mode if they were going to cripple it themselves as they've apparently done. Any thoughts out there?

:rolleyes:

faisal
04-12-2009, 12:29 PM
They didn't want to have the same movie mode as the 5D mark II I think.....
I tried them both and I couldn't see much difference between the two though I was using the LCD to view the short videos I took as I didn't have a SD card on me for the 500D....

Anyway i agree....1280*720 would be the more usable mode though irrespective of frame rate cause not everyone wants HD movies especially those that fill up the memory cards and Hard drives up quite quickly....

Dark Cobra
04-12-2009, 01:00 PM
Exactly! That is what puzzles me. They had no problem providing 30 fps in HD mode for the 5D MK II, so it's definitely do-able. However, when it came to this camera they intentionally crippled it back down to 20 fps, thus making it no more useful that than 1280 X 720 @ 30 fps. Thanks for the response and I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing. Perhaps if enough people question this it can be restored back to 30 fps via firmware upgrade.

laydros
04-12-2009, 01:48 PM
I'm guessing it is for marketing reasons.

It could honestly be that some chip (or RAM) was slower, and 20fps was the fastest they could go. 1080p video is very intensive. But I expect it is to not cannibalize the sales of 5D MkII, and the 60D will probably also feature video.

The really funny thing is what you want is 24fps. 30 is better, but tv screens show at 24 fps, so they have do drop frames to show 30fps.

Dark Cobra
04-12-2009, 02:14 PM
You're probably right. I'm eager to see what Jeff thinks about this issue.

Superangel
04-12-2009, 11:42 PM
Hi Dark Cobra,

As other's have said, it's mostly a marketing decision. Apparently the chip being used can't handle 1080p at 30fps, and this was approved so as to distinguish the T1i/500D from the 5D Mark II. It wouldn't surprise me if a custom firmware could eek out 24fps, but who knows?

I also read that even Canon's top-end DSLRs will not receive huge improvements, like 60fps, any time soon. This because a) video is a new feature, so improvements will be incremental, and b) Canon wants to protect its high-end camcorder range.

Kind regards,

Dark Cobra
04-13-2009, 12:11 AM
Hi Superangel and welcome to the forums also! Yeah, I'm pretty convinced the larger full frame sensor of the 5D is the main reason why it can handle 30 fps. The T1i has a smaller sensor and that may well be the limiting factor. As "Laydros" pointed out 24 fps is the native frame rate format for television so perhaps a future firmware upgrade might be able to pump the fps from 20 to 24 even though 30 would be pushing the limits of this smaller sensor.

Still the 720P HD mode @ 30 fps will probably be the mode that renders the smoothest motion. The Nikon D90 has a similar size sensor as the Canon T1i and it to uses the 720P HD mode @ 30 fps.

I guess my original point was to question Canon as to why they would even try to squeeze out 1080 HD when they knew they were going to be limited to a choppy 20 fps. I think most people will prefer the 720P HD mode @ 30 fps.

faisal
04-13-2009, 12:27 AM
the squeezed 1080 so that they could promote it in advertisement as the first entry level full HD camera...

Dark Cobra
04-13-2009, 12:31 AM
"faisal" is right again! Oh Canon you shameful devil you. LOL!

adam75south
04-13-2009, 09:12 AM
i agree. marketing bs. same reason they put 21MP in the 5dII instead of 16MP with better AF.

MORE MEGAPICKLES!

Rooz
04-13-2009, 03:56 PM
i think its clever personally. if you want better video buy a better body. its no more "cippled" than the AF system or body itself. canon have made a clear seperation between the video in its base line rebels and higher priced cameras. nikon ae apparently announcing their d60 replacement tomorow, id be surprised if they dont make a similar move.

Dark Cobra
04-13-2009, 05:27 PM
Yes, let's hold off and see. I continue to think it is indeed possible to offer the correct 24 fps (from the 20 fps now being offered), and is indeed an intentional crippling/limiting of that ability in order to protect the upper end market. You're right that they are wise in protecting the more expensive camera. I mean why would we desire that camera if a much lower end one mimicked so much of what it does.

Now if Nikon throws down the gauntlet and ups the HD video capability then clearly Nikon will be sending a message that they are ready to win over people with better movie modes. The upper end cameras will always continue to be desirable due to the full size sensor capability of better images.

Superangel
04-13-2009, 09:19 PM
Hi Dark Cobra,

Thanks, welcome to you too. I just read the Nikon D5000 press release (http://www.europe-nikon.com/product/en_GB/products/broad/1788/specifications.html), and it does 720p at 24fps, like the D90. That means Canon are still the only ones with 1080p on a 'budget' DSLR, however limited it may be.

However, when the D90's successor comes along, I think Nikon will include 1080p at 24/30fps. Then Canon's T1i/500D successor will bump up the specs too, and so on and so forth :)

Kind regards,

Dark Cobra
04-13-2009, 09:50 PM
Hey again Superangel! I totally agree with you that Nikon is one way or another going to push Canon into this eventually. 1080 HD is definitely "doable" @ 24 fps and the 20 fps rate will probably make this a choppy and near useless mode which is why I initially questioned why they even bothered to go there. The 720 HD mode @ 30 fps will definitely be the mode of choice.

The new Canon is a great camera either way. Let's see if Nikon does indeed nudge them into a firmware update. I think the 5D will still be well protected for a host of other reasons. I'm a bit saddened at Canon lately for a lot of reasons. It's like they've gotten lazy and playing it safe a bit too much. Nikon is again pushing them hard in the DSLR market and Pany is taking their lunch and eating it right in front of them in the pocket cam market!

Dark Cobra
04-14-2009, 10:43 PM
Well, well well . . . I just noticed that Canon put the very same 1980 X 1080 HD @ 30 fps we've been talking about in their point and shoot PowerShot SX1. So much for any theories about Canon only wanting to exclusively reserve this high end movie mode for their high end DSLR model huh?

Superangel
04-15-2009, 01:10 AM
It's a good point, Dark Cobra, but I guess they know enthusiasts or professionals will not usually choose a point and shoot, due to the lack of interchangeable changes and the relatively small sensor size. But you're right that clearly DIGIC IV can handle 1080p at 30fps when necessary.

Rooz
04-15-2009, 06:11 AM
Well, well well . . . I just noticed that Canon put the very same 1980 X 1080 HD @ 30 fps we've been talking about in their point and shoot PowerShot SX1. So much for any theories about Canon only wanting to exclusively reserve this high end movie mode for their high end DSLR model huh?

yeah...dslr, powershot...same thing. :rolleyes:
please man...please.

Dark Cobra
04-15-2009, 11:19 AM
In the world of digital 1080 HD @ 30 fps is 1080 HD @ 30 fps . . . all day long . . . please, man . . . please!

downtrodden
04-15-2009, 02:43 PM
But someone who's buying an SLR isn't going to be interested in an SX1, at all, So yeah, they're two entirely different things. the 5D MkII's market share isn't going to be threatened by the SX1- this is what Rooz was trying to say. So the theory about seperation of entry level SLR and and pro SLR is still clearly drawn- and until the SX1 takes as good of pictures as a 40D at ISO 1600 or as good as an entry level SLR at 800, the line between entry level SLR and point and shoots is still clearly drawn, regardless of the video ability. Afterall, at the end of the day, you're buying a camera, not a camcorder.

Dark Cobra
04-15-2009, 09:21 PM
Unreal . . . LOL. This thread is not about a comparison of a PowerShot to a DSLR nor was it a comparison of a low/mid level DSLR to a high end DSLR. Such a comparison would be silly at best. A high end DSLR will "ALWAYS" be a desirable device for a host of reasons. This thread was merely about whether or not a particular frame rate was "possible" in a movie mode with a camera outside of the 5D.

Some here understood perfectly and some took this to a place that was frankly absurd. Coming back to earth . . . the fact that a lesser camera can indeed have the same frame rate in a movie mode does not in any way threaten any body's precious 5D whiz bang DSLR . . . unless one chooses to be so frightened and once you become so frightened you've totally left this thread for sure.

Solution: Deep breaths and relax. HD movie modes are clearly improving and little is threatened because of it. Unreal.

Superangel
04-16-2009, 12:51 AM
Kind of related, but Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/15/first-nikon-d5000-and-canon-t1i-video-clips-appear/) linked to a couple of comparison videos of the T1i/500D and the D5000.

It's somewhat unfair, because the 500D is static whereas the D5000 is moving, and both are 720p downsampled for YouTube, but it does look like the 500D produces nicer results.

There's a rumor (at Canon Rumors (http://www.canonrumors.com/), as it would happen) that the 5D Mark II may receive a firmware upgrade offering manual video controls. Of course it's unconfirmed, but it would be nice, and would leave us with two possibilities.

First, Canon could let this differentiate the 5D Mark II, and not offer a similar update for the 500D. Or second, they could offer it as an update for the 500D, allowing it look better in comparison to the D90/D5000. This is all assuming the magical firmware does exist :)

Dark Cobra
04-16-2009, 01:25 AM
Hi again Superangel!

Yes, I totally agree that comparing a static image to a dynamic fluid one is odd. Also, Canon would be very wise to give the 5D manual video controls! It is the superior camera and if it's possible to bring it to that model then they should. The larger sensor allows it to do a variety of things and those paying that much are entitled to those extra features if they can be delivered with quality (that's the key).

My philosophy is simply . . . any camera should be given the features that its hardware/software is capable of handling. The flagship models like the 5D should get the fullest compliment of features it can handle. A lower model should get whatever features it is capable of handling.

That was and still is the point to this whole thread. If a lower camera can handle 1080 HD @ 24/30 fps . . . provide it! If the 5D can handle that PLUS manual controls . . . provide it so that you can use THAT to distinguish it as the flagship.

downtrodden
04-16-2009, 01:38 AM
Why would any company do that? That would be kind of dumb- unless the company is having problems, which Canon isn't.

They release a 500D with 20fps, which is fully capable of handling 30fps, they already have their next camera made- no engineering involved! they sell X cameras to the masses fawning over a movie mode in an SLR. A year later they release the 550D with 30fps, a couple extra megapickles and sell a ton more to those who were whining about 20fps.

Doing this a company can take one technology and "upgrade" it for 3 or 4 profit cycles before they actually have to engineer anything. Is it ethical? that's debatable- but is it effective? Clearly, or we wouldn't be abuzz.

Dark Cobra
04-16-2009, 01:41 AM
OK lets do that.

downtrodden
04-16-2009, 01:45 AM
Personally though, i'm glad Nikon finally migrated the rotating LCD concept to the DSLR... Now i'm going to have to buy a 60D (if it has rotating LCD too)

adenauer
04-26-2009, 12:33 AM
Canon's new EOS Rebel T1i is packed with features, both refined and new. In addition to its admirable performance with an all-new 15.1 Megapixel Canon CMOS sensor, DIGIC 4 Image Processor, a 3.0-inch Clear View LCD with anti-reflective and scratch-resistant coating, and compatibility with the EOS System of lenses and Speedlites, the Canon T1i (http://www.canont1i.net) adds remarkable Full HD video capture at resolutions up to 1920 x 1080.

Rooz
04-26-2009, 01:23 AM
lol thanks for the advertisement.

downtrodden
04-26-2009, 02:16 AM
we have Don for Sony and Ad for Canon... Now who's going to spout religously for Nikon?

Btw Roozy, new Spidergirl is up :P

Superangel
04-26-2009, 03:46 AM
Haha, different :)

I'm now the proud owner of a 500D and I'm really happy with it. It's my first DSLR, so I have nothing except my friend's Sony A350 for comparison, but so far it's great.

It's currently pouring with rain, but once it clears up, I will try out the movie mode (filming inside is a little boring :) ).

Kind regards,

dr4gon
04-26-2009, 09:15 PM
Canon's new EOS Rebel T1i is packed with features, both refined and new. In addition to its admirable performance with an all-new 15.1 Megapixel Canon CMOS sensor, DIGIC 4 Image Processor, a 3.0-inch Clear View LCD with anti-reflective and scratch-resistant coating, and compatibility with the EOS System of lenses and Speedlites, the Canon T1i (http://www.canont1i.net) adds remarkable Full HD video capture at resolutions up to 1920 x 1080.

viral marketing!


we have Don for Sony and Ad for Canon... Now who's going to spout religously for Nikon?

Btw Roozy, new Spidergirl is up :P

lol...

cwphoto
04-27-2009, 04:45 AM
In the world of digital 1080 HD @ 30 fps is 1080 HD @ 30 fps . . . all day long . . . please, man . . . please!

Oils ain't oils. Gimmee 20fps on a large, noise-free, subject-isolating chip over 30fps on a P&S any day!

Dark Cobra
04-27-2009, 11:22 AM
Sorry, but you have to compare apples to apples. A frame rate of 20 fps is going to be choppier than a frame rate of 24 or 30 fps. Sensor size provides a better quality image but that is not the issue. However, given two cameras of the same or similar sensor size (large or small) the one with 20 fps will be choppier than the one with 24/30 fps. That is an absolute fact. Adding a larger sensor doesn't suddenly cure the choppier image.

What was the original issue was whether or not the particular camera in question had the capability of having 24/30 fps. Some suggested it couldn't because it required the larger sensor of the flagship model to have that kind of frame rate. Then we discovered that a P&S was indeed able to provide that frame rate. Therefore, the suggestion that "ONLY" the flagship model could provide that capability went out the window.

adam75south
04-27-2009, 12:45 PM
what's the problem with 720p anyway? dvd won't handle 1080p, neither will youtube or vimeo for that matter. unless you plan on making blu-rays there's really no point....well, i guess if you plan on doing some PP zoom it comes in handy.

Dark Cobra
04-27-2009, 01:15 PM
Hi . . . I agree totally and stated in opening post that the lower resolution is probably where most people are going to be. Oh by the way, you can put 1080P clips on DVD all day long. The data disc included with Terminator 2 is in 1080P and it can be played on your computer in 1080P.

cwphoto
04-27-2009, 03:50 PM
Sorry, but you have to compare apples to apples. A frame rate of 20 fps is going to be choppier than a frame rate of 24 or 30 fps. Sensor size provides a better quality image but that is not the issue. However, given two cameras of the same or similar sensor size (large or small) the one with 20 fps will be choppier than the one with 24/30 fps. That is an absolute fact. Adding a larger sensor doesn't suddenly cure the choppier image.

What was the original issue was whether or not the particular camera in question had the capability of having 24/30 fps. Some suggested it couldn't because it required the larger sensor of the flagship model to have that kind of frame rate. Then we discovered that a P&S was indeed able to provide that frame rate. Therefore, the suggestion that "ONLY" the flagship model could provide that capability went out the window.

Sure.

All I'm saying is that I'd take 20fps and the advantages of a large sensor (not least of which, DoF characteristics) over 24 fps and the disadvantages any day.

Dark Cobra
04-27-2009, 03:53 PM
Sure.

All I'm saying is that I'd take 20fps and the advantages of a large sensor (not least of which, DoF characteristics) over 24 fps and the disadvantages any day.

LOL . . . Yes, indeed you would!