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View Full Version : Business Tips for Success - #1 Have a Website



Mark_48
03-13-2009, 06:28 AM
Saw this in my recent issue of Rangefinder and thought it was worthwhile posting a link to the online article. Some individuals:) will likely disagree with a few of the pointers, but for those who have ambitions of nurturing a successful business, the article has some good info.

http://www.rangefindermag.com/repository/rf/articles/pdf/RF0309_BusinessForum_Cohen.pdf

cdifoto
03-13-2009, 07:13 AM
Yep lots of good tips. It really should all be common business sense but sadly it isn't. Common I mean.

adam75south
03-13-2009, 08:30 AM
i'm too lazy for some of it...but i'd say i do 7 out of the 10 there. i DEFINITELY need to offer more products though. lately i've been booking weddings on flat rates and giving them cost on prints...or as close to cost as smugmug lets me anyway. but i really need to try to push albums or books, i just don't feel like putting them together.

Rhys
03-15-2009, 04:45 PM
Chatting with other vendors at the bridal show, it was a fairly common complaint that email and webforms attracted nothing good. The commonest comment was that people that emailed rather than phoning were a complete waste of time as regards retail business.

Basically, that article in Rangefinder was a great big steaming pile of dung. Nothing could be further from the reality of the real people I meet that have their own businesses. We have mostly tried the same things and none of them work (which we have found out don't work, completely independently). We have found what works and in this business, it's trade fairs and word of mouth.

The commonality is TV and press advertising cost lots of money and don't generate more income than expenditure. As for internet advertising, that's the biggest rip-off ever - particularly Google add-words. Most of us were extremely dubious about the worth of websites.

Let's put it like this... I used some of the same photos from my online portfolio on my physical display and got enquiries about bookings from 25% of the attendees at the bridal show. That was considerably more than what other photographers had at that show. My website does not attract anywhere near the same attention.

Csae
03-15-2009, 09:15 PM
There were some things i agreed with and some i didn't.

However, i have always found that a website should be complimentary? Complimentry? to any visual profession. I would find it hard to get by without one, but it won't do much on its own. Its almost always something i refer to, "Got any more work we can see?" "Oh sure, let me just load up my site." And its something that will always help make a sale that i couldn't finish in person.

Example : Hey steve, how did you like the photos? Oh i loved them, you should give me your card so i can give them to a friend of mine whos interested.

(Said friend will then most likely check out the website before making a call.)

Alot of people have "heard" i do photography, but untill i show them something, they likely wont be very interested. And i find it hard to carry a worthy portfolio at all times, though i did have a pocket one for a while. I know that in their shoes, i would do the same. I wouldn't bother making a call before i can see something on a site, it wouldn't be definitive, but it would be a required first step for me.

"Oh you know a good makeup artist? Cool got a card? What no site? Meh, i'll think about it."

Mind you, im not interested in weddings at all, im doing my best to push towards more artistic and less commercial stuff, so i might not be in the same vein as you guys. I also don't have the stress since photography doesn't earn my keep.

cdifoto
03-16-2009, 03:55 AM
Chatting with other vendors at the bridal show, it was a fairly common complaint that email and webforms attracted nothing good. The commonest comment was that people that emailed rather than phoning were a complete waste of time as regards retail business.

Basically, that article in Rangefinder was a great big steaming pile of dung. Nothing could be further from the reality of the real people I meet that have their own businesses. We have mostly tried the same things and none of them work (which we have found out don't work, completely independently). We have found what works and in this business, it's trade fairs and word of mouth.

The commonality is TV and press advertising cost lots of money and don't generate more income than expenditure. As for internet advertising, that's the biggest rip-off ever - particularly Google add-words. Most of us were extremely dubious about the worth of websites.

Let's put it like this... I used some of the same photos from my online portfolio on my physical display and got enquiries about bookings from 25% of the attendees at the bridal show. That was considerably more than what other photographers had at that show. My website does not attract anywhere near the same attention.
"Birds of a feather flock together."

Rhys
03-16-2009, 09:07 AM
"Birds of a feather flock together."

Big difference - I and the people I speak with are real world professionals, not online wannabes.

Here's a photo of my table at the trade show.

michaelb
03-16-2009, 09:28 AM
... My website does not attract anywhere near the same attention.
Obvioulsly, I think you need a good website for it to useful. And by good I mean it should look technically well put together as well displaying your talent. I know if I was looking for a wedding photog nowadays and I got a name or business card the first thing I would do would be to check out their website - and what I saw there would likely be a big determining factor in whether I used them or not.

cdifoto
03-16-2009, 09:31 AM
Big difference - I and the people I speak with are real world professionals, not online wannabes.
It's ever so slightly possible that those other "real world professionals" had shit websites too. Just having a website isn't enough. It has to be appealing too.

Despite what you and your "real world professional" friends think, having a good website can be beneficial to your business. I'm speaking from first hand experience. Sometimes they meet me in person first and are handed a business card THEN check out the website, other times they find me via Google or some other means and check out the website. No matter how they found my website, they are definitely looking at it before they call me up and schedule a meeting.

Rhys
03-16-2009, 10:00 AM
It's ever so slightly possible that those other "real world professionals" had shit websites too.

Just having a website isn't enough. It has to be appealing too.

No. Again the comment - not just from the photographers - is that websites do not attract clients that are willing to pay. The time when websites do pay is when you're advertising to the commercial sector rather than the retail. As an example one company (non photography) there had commercial and retail sides to their business. The commercial website was really helpful to their business. The retail side was so problematic because of the timewasters that their retail website generated. Their actual shop had no such problems (other than tourists coming to look, not buy).

The message I keep hearing from customers is not "what's your website" but basically "go to trade shows and forget that internet crap".

cdifoto
03-16-2009, 10:30 AM
No. Again the comment - not just from the photographers - is that websites do not attract clients that are willing to pay. The time when websites do pay is when you're advertising to the commercial sector rather than the retail. As an example one company (non photography) there had commercial and retail sides to their business. The commercial website was really helpful to their business. The retail side was so problematic because of the timewasters that their retail website generated. Their actual shop had no such problems (other than tourists coming to look, not buy).

The message I keep hearing from customers is not "what's your website" but basically "go to trade shows and forget that internet crap".
My website attracts clients that are willing to pay. Shows are fine but their reach is comparatively small. Photography is not retail, it's service. In service you always have some inquiries from tire kickers, some from undecideds, some time-wasters, and some ready to hire. That's just how it goes. If you want to eliminate all time wasters and tire kickers, don't be in business. The downside is you won't get ready to hires either. ;)

Rhys
03-16-2009, 10:42 AM
Big difference - people ready to buy go to shows. Kiddies use the internet, pretending to be grown ups, making fake bookings etc.

cdifoto
03-16-2009, 10:45 AM
Big difference - people ready to buy go to shows. Kiddies use the internet, pretending to be grown ups, making fake bookings etc.
There's no such thing as a booking until I've got a contract signed and a retainer deposited. That means I've met them in person, discussed their needs, shook their hands, etc. That also means it's impossible to fake one.

cdifoto
03-16-2009, 10:49 AM
By the way, despite absolutely hating websites and thinking they're useless, you really should display more than one wedding in your gallery.

Rhys
03-16-2009, 11:14 AM
I have no intention of doing anything further to my website. I don't even mention it on my business literature any more. I don't go in for crappy looking business cards with photos plastered all over them either. 90% of business is word of mouth. The rest is from tradeshows.

cdifoto
03-16-2009, 11:34 AM
Might wanna pull some of those planets from your signature then.

Mark_48
03-16-2009, 11:37 AM
Chatting with other vendors at the bridal show, it was a fairly common complaint that email and webforms attracted nothing good. The commonest comment was that people that emailed rather than phoning were a complete waste of time as regards retail business.

Basically, that article in Rangefinder was a great big steaming pile of dung. Nothing could be further from the reality of the real people I meet that have their own businesses. We have mostly tried the same things and none of them work (which we have found out don't work, completely independently). We have found what works and in this business, it's trade fairs and word of mouth.

The commonality is TV and press advertising cost lots of money and don't generate more income than expenditure. As for internet advertising, that's the biggest rip-off ever - particularly Google add-words. Most of us were extremely dubious about the worth of websites.

Let's put it like this... I used some of the same photos from my online portfolio on my physical display and got enquiries about bookings from 25% of the attendees at the bridal show. That was considerably more than what other photographers had at that show. My website does not attract anywhere near the same attention.

Hmm, So you're saying the author of the article doesn't have a clue about what he's talking about. I'm rather wondering what qualifies you as an all knowing expert in the marketing of photography, other than simply hearsay from others. Have you published any books or articles pertaining to this subject? Lectures at trade shows?

The author of that article I suspect has a trifle more experience than yourself as noted from this short bio. You don't likely get to these positions without a fair amount of knowledge of the industry.
"Skip Cohen is president of Rangefinder Publishing Inc. and is responsible for Rangefinder magazine and the Wedding and Portrait Photographers International Association and trade show.His career has included 17 years with Polaroid and 12 years as President/CEO of Hasselblad USA.He has served as an active board member at various organizations including PPA, PMDA, Photographers and Friends United Against AIDS, Center for Creative Photography and the P.H.O.T.O. Foundation, which was created to help photographers who were victims of Hurricane Katrina.Cohen has also written three books on photography and marketing."

As a former member of WPI (1975-1979), I took your "steaming pile of dung" comment to be offensive and insulting to those who ascribe to what might be considered a benchmark of best practices for professional photographers. These best practices are compiled on years of industry study and input by working professionals and proven to be effective tools. You have in essence, implied that successful working professional photographers have "dung" for brains and don't have a clue what they are talking about. You evidently have a low opinion of the majority of pro photographers.

I had posted this thread as it might be helpful to a few and also knowing it would elicit a negative response from yourself. As usual you didn't disappoint :D

adam75south
03-16-2009, 11:38 AM
By the way, despite absolutely hating websites and thinking they're useless, you really should display more than one wedding in your gallery.

i was just about to say the same thing.

i get two questions all the time from people. one is "do you have a card?" and the other is "do you have a website?" and i'm pretty sure the only reason they ask for the card is so that they can find the website.

cdifoto
03-16-2009, 11:43 AM
i get two questions all the time from people. one is "do you have a card?" and the other is "do you have a website?" and i'm pretty sure the only reason they ask for the card is so that they can find the website.
A bartender stopped me as I was leaving his establishment after a meeting with a couple about their wedding photography. He said "Hey I hear you do weddings. Do you have a business card?" I gave him my business card. He said, "Cool. I'll check out your site then give you a call." Couple weeks later he calls. "Hey Don, my fiancee and I would like to meet up with you sometime soon. When's good for you?" We met. Over the course of the meeting he says "Oh yeah do you have any more cards with you? I've got a friend getting married in Philly."

I got an email the other week from a young lady out of my region. She found me via Google. Said she likes my work. Asked me about packages, pricing, etc. I sent her my PDFs and explained a few things. She wants to meet ASAP.

Yeah. Websites are useless.

Csae
03-16-2009, 11:36 PM
For the sake of this topic, i have checked out all 4 of your sites.

I have to say im extremely dissapointed in all of them. This might be the reason you are not getting anything back from your sites. Now, dont misunderstand this, having a shitty site does not mean having shitty pictures, it just means having a shitty design and or showing the wrong pictures. The best practice for any business is being convenient to your customers, a website is an amazingly convenient thing, because they can check it when they want, for however long they want. No matter how much they'd like to, they might not be able to sit and talk with you long enough to feel confident and see enough.

At this point, i would not hire you for my wedding. This means that i would have meet you at a fair show, talked with you, got a card, went home and checked out your site and removed you from my list.

Theres something you need to be aware of, having an awesome site, will rarely, generate business on its own. From cdi's last example, he got 1 of 3 potential jobs from just his site, the other 2 were from in-person with the help of his site. I tried googling him, and was dissapointed when i couldn't find him with cdi photo, even if your site is cdifoto, it should be in your header for google's sake :P I checked your keywords, and cdi isn't part of them : o

I won't go all out in comparing site designs, but i will say the major points using cdi's because hes the closest site i got at the moment, the major selling target seems to be weddings, on load, his site shows me a nice wedding picture. Its also nice and bright, with alot of extra information.

On load, your site is extremely dark, and shows up a very old, and a very poor quality picture of a old couple? If i was 80 and was getting married thats the kind of pictures id want. It follows with a bird, and a very moody almost creepy lake. At the 4th picture there is context of a wedding.

Now, im looking for someone to capture the brightest happiest day of my life, hey let me go with the creepy lake guy! Now i have nothing against those kinds of photos, hell i prefer them to wedding photos and are one of the reasons i dont want to do weddings, i prefer to do creepy lake shots but if im looking for a wedding photog, thats not what i want to see. The only information i get off the bat is your phone number, twice over. I guess you really want me to call huh, that special offer could be taken off its own tab and put on the front page :o Black can be classy or creppy, you are doing it the creepy way. Add white or gold edges for a better feel, and get rid of grey tabs.

I can also relate an example of where my site has gotten me alot of business, i did a corporate party around christmas, i was going around taking pictures of everybody and just dropping them my cards telling them to check my site in a week for their pictures. People did, and im still getting orders for pictures up to now. There is no possible way i could of kept up with the number of people and shown them my work individually, i dedicated the entire site to that event because its all i had going on at that moment. Because it was a corporate event, they also have access to the album of all the pictures in one of the offices, but needless to say they all prefer to use my site instead and show their wifes/husbands/kids the pictures.


Hmm, that is alot to read. On second thought i SHOULD do weddings, provided they are rock stars or goths, then id have some fun.

cdifoto
03-16-2009, 11:49 PM
Theres something you need to be aware of, having an awesome site, will rarely, generate business on its own. From cdi's last example, he got 1 of 3 potential jobs from just his site, the other 2 were from in-person with the help of his site. I tried googling him, and was dissapointed when i couldn't find him with cdi photo, even if your site is cdifoto, it should be in your header for google's sake :P I checked your keywords, and cdi isn't part of them : o
LOL. I never even thought of "CDI Photo" since that's not how I spell it. But if you Google for "premium destination wedding photographer" or "Shippensburg photographer" or "Shippensburg wedding photographer" (Shippensburg being my town), you'll get some results that include me.

Other combos work too of course...mostly those using towns near me.

Csae
03-16-2009, 11:54 PM
Im still deducting you a cookie mr. cdi.

Talking about cookies, i went to a chocolate fair some years ago and still have all these business cards, if i ever decide to use any of them, i hope their sites are up and working :o

cdifoto
03-16-2009, 11:55 PM
I can also relate an example of where my site has gotten me alot of business, i did a corporate party around christmas, i was going around taking pictures of everybody and just dropping them my cards telling them to check my site in a week for their pictures. People did, and im still getting orders for pictures up to now.
Funny you say that; I'm still getting print orders from a wedding I photographed back in July '08. They aren't huge but they do chip away at my car payment pretty good. :)

Csae
03-16-2009, 11:59 PM
Is this the closest that can be hoped for consistent work ? Like 9-5 type.

Because if i keep getting orders t'ill next christmas... That means it could be a yearly thing and that'd be cool.

cdifoto
03-17-2009, 12:01 AM
Im still deducting you a cookie mr. cdi.

Talking about cookies, i went to a chocolate fair some years ago and still have all these business cards, if i ever decide to use any of them, i hope their sites are up and working :o
Hah fair enough. I updated my website keywords to include cdi and photo. :D

adam75south
03-17-2009, 07:51 AM
my favorite is sagepcworld. the picture of these two guys is freakin classic!
http://www.sageworld.co.uk/SagePCWorld2/rvs_library/180x150/l235.jpg

and my all time favorite was the youtube video. god i wish i'd saved it.

Rhys
03-17-2009, 08:18 AM
Quite honestly, I don't give a rat's ass about websites.

If people are serious then they're going to find me via tradeshows or word of mouth. It's just timewasters that use websites - hence I took my webform away. If people are really serious they will ring. Thus far nobody has been in the slightest serious that's come from internet advertising.

Vehicle advertising works. Word of mouth works. Tradeshows work. The internet does not, nor does TV nor press advertising and I'll tell you why...

People want to be sure they're getting a genuine business; anybody can set up a website and claim to be genuine - how do you know that photographer X claiming to be a high-class photographer in LA isn't our old friend Ben in Lagos?. Websites are not reassuring for the customer - they're just fluff. Similarly press and TV advertising - TV you just go and raid the fridge when the adverts are on, turn the channel or do the crossword. Press advertising is just the pages you skip between the articles in your newspaper/magazine. Waste of time.

Can I say it any louder? I don't care a damn about websites and the internet and my customers don't either.

cdifoto
03-17-2009, 08:59 AM
Quite honestly, I don't give a rat's ass about websites.

If people are serious then they're going to find me via tradeshows or word of mouth. It's just timewasters that use websites - hence I took my webform away. If people are really serious they will ring. Thus far nobody has been in the slightest serious that's come from internet advertising.

Vehicle advertising works. Word of mouth works. Tradeshows work. The internet does not, nor does TV nor press advertising and I'll tell you why...

People want to be sure they're getting a genuine business; anybody can set up a website and claim to be genuine - how do you know that photographer X claiming to be a high-class photographer in LA isn't our old friend Ben in Lagos?. Websites are not reassuring for the customer - they're just fluff. Similarly press and TV advertising - TV you just go and raid the fridge when the adverts are on, turn the channel or do the crossword. Press advertising is just the pages you skip between the articles in your newspaper/magazine. Waste of time.

Can I say it any louder? I don't care a damn about websites and the internet and my customers don't either.
How many weddings did you book from the trade show? I'm not talking vague price inquiries. I'm talking signed contracts with deposits in the bank.

Sure - anyone can set up a website and look legitimate when they're not. But anyone can set up a local TV advertisement, get a booth at a tradeshow, print business cards, talk to people, and put magnets/stickers on their vehicle whether they're legitimate or not too.

Websites are more than fluff. The fact that your website is not working for you does not mean websites do not work.

Even though photography isn't retail, you keep comparing it to retail so let's run with that.

Does amazon.com not work for its owners? Does bhphotovideo.com not work for its owners?

Now let's think about social networking:

Does youtube.com not work for its owners? Does myspace.com not work for its owners? Does facebook.com not work for its owners?

Rhys
03-17-2009, 09:32 AM
Youtube and facebook work because they're aimed at internet addicts.

B&H works because they were working well before they went online. Online sales are an extra bonus for them. Generally, businesses that have a brick and mortar side find their brick and mortar sales add up to 95% of their sales.

Amazon didn't work for the first 10 years. For the 1st 10 years they kept having to get loans, grants and to borrow. When they opened their marketplace auction site is when they started to make money.

Photography is retail - we're selling to Joe Public.

cdifoto
03-17-2009, 09:45 AM
Youtube and facebook work because they're aimed at internet addicts.

B&H works because they were working well before they went online. Online sales are an extra bonus for them. Generally, businesses that have a brick and mortar side find their brick and mortar sales add up to 95% of their sales.

Amazon didn't work for the first 10 years. For the 1st 10 years they kept having to get loans, grants and to borrow. When they opened their marketplace auction site is when they started to make money.

Photography is retail - we're selling to Joe Public.
And that's why you will fail. You fail to acknowledge that success does exist on the internet & don't know the difference between service and retail.

B&H's B&M sales are a small fraction of their international internet-based mail-order.

Amazon is booming and their auctions had nothing to do with it. They don't even have auction services anymore.

Youtube is aimed at people who like to make videos. They aren't necessarily addicts. Facebook has more busy college students & working professionals on it than anything else.

Rhys
03-17-2009, 09:57 AM
ROTFL...

I see CDI still doesn't quite grasp that in terms of my business, the internet is a load of crap. He doesn't understand that I've written it off as a load of crap and am going with avenues that actually work. He doesn't understand that I was experimenting with different methods of promotion until I found what works.

Not one person I have met at a trade show has ever asked me what my email or website address is. They just want booking forms. In fact I shall be replacing my enquiry forms with booking forms at the next trade show.

cdifoto
03-17-2009, 10:21 AM
For the internet being a load of crap you sure do have a lot of links in your signature and you sure do spend a lot of time online.

And you still haven't answered my question:

How many weddings did you book at the trade show?

Rhys
03-17-2009, 10:28 AM
For the internet being a load of crap you sure do have a lot of links in your signature and you sure do spend a lot of time online.

And you still haven't answered my question:

How many weddings did you book at the trade show?

I'm not going to answer that question because it's MY business and MY business alone.

Yes, sure I have a load of links. I was trying to popularise my websites, when I was really trying to make the internet work. I now don't give a damn about the internet. It is of mild amusement, reading the pathetic ramblings of those internet addicts that reckon the internet is the future.

I am online right now while I get my letters to people done.

As far as email is concerned, spam killed that dead. Very few people I know now use email. They prefer to pick up the telephone. Gone are the days when I could open my inbox and find a load of interesting messages. Now I open it and find spam that's slipped through the spam filters and that's about it.

cdifoto
03-17-2009, 10:47 AM
I'm not going to answer that question because it's MY business and MY business alone.
Zero. That's what I thought. If I'm wrong, say so. Prove to me that trade shows work while websites do not.

How many bookings have you received from your vehicle magnets? I'm curious about that too. You say it works so you should be able to give me numbers. Even a range of numbers is fine by me: 5-7, 8-12, etc. You don't have to be precise.

Truth be told I don't keep statistics myself, but I do know clients are finding me via the web. I know this because I ask them.

Csae
03-17-2009, 10:49 AM
Lol.

I think we can stop this now by simply stating that websites dont work for Rhys.

They work for everyone else execpt Rhys and his trade fair shows.

Those are simple facts, he states they dont work for him or his trade fair buddys, thats a fact, it would be hard for me to argue that. Websites work for everyone else is also a fact, less i point you to thousands of e-commerces that are making millions.

Can you argue with me that google isnt making a shitton of money ? or newegg? Good.

Well i cant argue with you that websites dont work for you either.



I can however tell you WHY websites aren't working for you, but you haven't been listening.

cdifoto
03-17-2009, 10:54 AM
Lol.

I think we can stop this now by simply stating that websites dont work for Rhys.

They work for everyone else execpt Rhys and his trade fair shows.

Those are simple facts, he states they dont work for him or his trade fair buddys, thats a fact, it would be hard for me to argue that. Websites work for everyone else is also a fact, less i point you to thousands of e-commerces that are making millions.
No doubt. However, I'd like to know if trade shows and magnets really are working or if he's just making that up to make himself sound right and make us sound wrong. He says trade shows and magnets work but he won't provide evidence of it. Just a simple "I don't get any serious inquiries from my website but I booked three brides at a trade show and had 12 calls from people who got my number from the magnets on my car." would be fine. I'd even believe him. Heck I'd even accept "I get zero inquiries from my website but I booked a few weddings at the trade show."

For the record I'm not even saying that trade shows and/or magnets do not work. I AM saying however that the notion of trade shows being dramatically successful and a website being a complete failure is absurd. Presuming of course that the same level of quality is put forth in both the website and the trade show booth.

downtrodden
03-17-2009, 12:03 PM
I think someone is really showing his age on this one- he must live in an area where younger people or 'tech savvy' people aren't consumers- this would explain why having a website doesn't get any hits for him and his business situ.

Nursing home folk tend to be technologically inept. :D

Now *THAT'S* a knee slapper!

adam75south
03-17-2009, 01:27 PM
i like the fake facts he adds in there. especially the percentages. generally 95% of all revenue is driven by door hangers. haha that'll be the next one. almost all respectable businesses have a website. do you realize that walmart could stop advertising now, take down their website, and just rake in their money as is? why do they offer a website? because it's a service the consumers want.

ok i need to stop now. rhys, you let us know how well your wedding photography goes without a website. i hope you do well, i look forward to seeing the new wedding photos you post in the future.

Mark_48
03-17-2009, 02:34 PM
You may remember from the "Wowie-wow-wow" thread about the SC Craigslist $65 wedding photographer I emailed. I got an email reminding me they still have the date open and they also attached a couple of BW pictures of some kid for samples - EXIF still intact :).
Could it be they shoot weddings with one of these? :eek:

Competition is looking pretty darn fierce in SC....better watch out for this up and comer Rhys !!

Oh yeah, the sample pics sent were shot at ISO 64 :D.


Kodak EasyShare Z8612 IS

Csae
03-17-2009, 04:45 PM
Pfft, that dont mean anything.

I got a photo or two in my portfolio with one of these :

http://www.anunturi-terenuri-imobiliare.ro/upload/6483441109canon-a550.jpg

cdifoto
03-17-2009, 05:13 PM
Y'all are so low-tech. I shoot tethered. :cool:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a304/cdifoto/2009-03-17-0046.jpg

Rhys
03-17-2009, 05:18 PM
Hell, the ring photo that I had on display on Sunday was taken with one of these:

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/nikon/coolpix3100-review/camera-front-angled.jpg

Yes - it's 3 megapixels and did a damned fine job of the macro work. It amazed the other photographers present that I did it with an elderly camera such as that but it's a great little camera and I'm still using it when I want a small camera for quick personal photos.

downtrodden
03-17-2009, 09:42 PM
I remember my first and only wedding- my sisters wedding as a guest (she'd hired another photog at my advice) and I was using an S3 and boy was I in pain...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2051/2097332564_e58a01a4fb.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/downtrodden_angel/2097332564/in/set-72157603408724000)

Now I have a wedding scheduled in Oct. and she insists on paying me- despite me telling her i've never done this before so I can't in all good consciousness charge her- that i'd only charge her for prints she wants and she has to buy me a drink or something. But she insists on paying me something for my little experiment and foray into the wedding world.


I also have another prospect for Nov. too- but we'll see about that.

Csae
03-17-2009, 10:18 PM
Long live AF and open bars.


Open bars are the only reason id even show up to a wedding. : P

This might not be the thread for it but happy st pattys :D

tim11
03-18-2009, 06:31 AM
Business Tips for Success - #1 Have a Website?
I believe a professional looking website will help your business. But I have seen crappy photography website that give people the conception that must reflect your skill as a photographer. So you have to come up with a good site, or not at all.

adam75south
03-18-2009, 07:58 AM
It amazed the other photographers present that I did it with an elderly camera

are you sure they weren't just amazed that a true professional busted out a pocket camera?

Rhys
03-18-2009, 09:32 AM
are you sure they weren't just amazed that a true professional busted out a pocket camera?

Now that's the type of comment only an amateur would make. It doesn't matter a damn what camera is used to take the photo. Do you compliment the chef on having a nice set of pots and pans when you eat an excellent meal?

adam75south
03-18-2009, 09:57 AM
post the pic rhys, we'll see how "professional" it looks.

Rhys
03-18-2009, 10:07 AM
post the pic rhys, we'll see how "professional" it looks.

I'm not responding to anybody's challenges because quite frankly, I don't give a damn any more what anybody on some online forum thinks.

As I have already stated, I find the internet in general to be a pretty useless invention, totally disassociated from the real world.

As an entertainment medium, it's fairly passable. For anything else, it's not up to a whole lot. Email used to be good until the spammers ruined it for everybody. I now know of very few people that email regularly. Instant messengers used to be good but have been ruined by spammers. Heck, today I logged onto Yahoo mail and the wretched instant messenger now built into yahoo mail popped up with some porno spam.

So... No I'm not going to take you up on your challenge.

adam75south
03-18-2009, 10:11 AM
it figures.

look i don't doubt you can get some great pictures from a p&s, i have myself. but i'd never pull one out at a wedding people are paying me to shoot. especially when i have a real macro lens and a 21MP digital slr(which i'm more than happy to use as a marketing tool when i talk to my clients). that would be kinda like showing up to shoot the wedding wearing shorts and a t-shirt...just looks funny.

Csae
03-18-2009, 10:34 AM
Posts: 6,647

On a funnier note, e-mails and IMs work, even better then phones btw.

My webhost provides me with near 24/7 support via IM without offshore labour.

I provide most of my clients with my e-mail for orders, and price informations, because then i got a log of our agreement. Should they decide they thought i would only charge them x for y, i just pull out the printed e-mail.

I don't however finalize anything over e-mail or IM, i still keep both logged 100% of the time and i haven't received any e-mail or IM spam in years. (Its called filters, and not the type you screw on your lenses.)

At the end of the day it simplifys business and lightens my phone bill, the final contract is on paper and signed with $ deposit, it also means i don't have to worry about replying to someone at 3am, or having to answer my phone during work.

cdifoto
03-18-2009, 11:35 AM
i have a real macro lens and a 21MP digital slr(which i'm more than happy to use as a marketing tool when i talk to my clients).
I don't have 21MP but if asked what kind of equipment I use, I do have the ability to say honestly, "the same equipment professional photographers use everywhere - from the Super Bowl to Iraq." And yes sometimes I do say that - with a shitty grin like this one: :D


that would be kinda like showing up to shoot the wedding wearing shorts and a t-shirt...just looks funny.
Hey I wore a t-shirt and shorts to a wedding once! And I'll do it again this year. :D

Mark_48
03-18-2009, 11:40 AM
I'm not responding to anybody's challenges because quite frankly, I don't give a damn any more what anybody on some online forum thinks.

As I have already stated, I find the internet in general to be a pretty useless invention, totally disassociated from the real world.

As an entertainment medium, it's fairly passable. For anything else, it's not up to a whole lot. Email used to be good until the spammers ruined it for everybody. I now know of very few people that email regularly. Instant messengers used to be good but have been ruined by spammers. Heck, today I logged onto Yahoo mail and the wretched instant messenger now built into yahoo mail popped up with some porno spam.

So... No I'm not going to take you up on your challenge.
Could you do without the internet or would you want to? It's not a cheap service to pay for every month if you find it useless. The money saved could certainly be used for something you find more beneficial.

As for me I'm currently researching garden tractors online. Saves me a wad of cash on gas and time from driving around to alot of dealers only to find they don't have what I want. Online dealer website brochures, pictures, and information has been plentiful. When I narrow it down I'll find a dealer and go talk to them and see if they can provide the service I'm looking to get. It would be a real time waster for both me, as a potential customer/client and the dealer/service provider if I couldn't do the research first.

"I think someone is really showing his age on this one- he must live in an area where younger people or 'tech savvy' people aren't consumers- this would explain why having a website doesn't get any hits for him and his business situ.
Nursing home folk tend to be technologically inept.:D

I read this and thought it might have been somehow directed at me (probably old enough to be CDI's old man. Hmm, would I be proud to have CDI as a son? Gotta think about that one... :rolleyes:). The point is even someone "my age" or older uses the internet alot for information and communications. It wouldn't make any sense for anyone of any age to not use it and benefit from it. Sure there's alot of crap and spam out there, but weeding it out isn't all that difficult. And if you tend to piss people off you just might get a rash of unsolicited email in your inbox. For someone doing business, it's another tool to use and it can be a very effective one if implemented well.

I commend you for participation in the wedding fair. I have no idea what you may have done to promote yourself, but if your only reason for being there was to simply display your work and hand out information, shame on you. You had potential clients in your grips and rather than waiting for followup phone call that may never come, it was an opportune moment to try and schedule a post wedding fair meetup with a potential client to personalize what you can do for them or at least have them fillout a client information form or guestbook of sorts, so you can make a followup call to see how things are going and that you haven't forgotten their special day - make friends.

cdifoto
03-18-2009, 11:47 AM
Even my old man (the real one, not Mark) used the net to research motorcycles when he was going through his mid-life crisis. He's not internet savvy but with my help was able to check out dealer inventory around the country from his living room.

You can't tell me that ain't powerful.

FLiPMaRC
03-18-2009, 11:52 AM
My dad is 68 years old. My mom complains he's on the computer too much .. LOL! :D

Nickcanada
03-18-2009, 01:28 PM
My dad plays chess online. It's funny, people IM him all the time in game and he doesn't even know how to respond.

downtrodden
03-18-2009, 01:33 PM
I wasn't meaning it as saying that old people can't use the net- i was referring to how he sounds like those old people who rant and rave that a technology is useless and will never catch on- all the while, around him 90% of the country in which he lives is using the internet religously- the kind of people who said people would never buy microwaves when they came out because there would never be a need to eat such crap food. No- there may not be a NEED for it- but it makes a lot of things more convenient.

Or the photogs who said digital would never catch on and film would always be more popular... i wonder how Canon's film sales were last year compared to digital... the point is when there's a new technology- there are always detractors who see it as nothing more than a gimick or laughable fad- and sometimes they are right- but often, quite incorrect. My statement was merely an attempt to jest at this reality in as short a sentance as possible. :P

adam75south
03-18-2009, 02:02 PM
My dad plays chess online. It's funny, people IM him all the time in game and he doesn't even know how to respond.

now that's funny. you should see my grandpa on ebay. he was explaining to me yesterday how different words bring different results. "thanks grandpa". and he doesn't know how to scroll either so he clicks the scroll wheel and moves the mouse up or down to get it to scroll.

Nickcanada
03-18-2009, 03:02 PM
Oh man, I could go all day with stories about my dad.

Me and my dad at my wedding. This picture pretty much sums up my dad. He speaks with a thick Croatian accent to go with the look.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k162/nickandaline/Wedding%20Day/00340022.jpg

TheWengler
03-18-2009, 03:25 PM
looks kind of like this guy...
44914

Nickcanada
03-19-2009, 12:17 PM
looks kind of like this guy...
44914

LOL, that's funny, and true! :D

cdifoto
03-19-2009, 12:50 PM
I thought he looked more like Geri.

44956

gilly
03-19-2009, 12:52 PM
haha that face of your Dad's has a whole lot of character Nick! I'm surprised we haven't seen more pics of him!? Of is he not a fan of being in front of a camera?

Nickcanada
03-19-2009, 01:33 PM
I thought he looked more like Geri.

44956

haha, what's that from? with the ears and the chess board that is definitely my dad. :D

Nickcanada
03-19-2009, 01:37 PM
haha that face of your Dad's has a whole lot of character Nick! I'm surprised we haven't seen more pics of him!? Of is he not a fan of being in front of a camera?

Yeah, I was thinking about that the other day. He lives about 5 hours away and when we do get together I'm usually not in picture mode but I've gotta get some more good pictures of him. I don't have anything really good. :o

cdifoto
03-19-2009, 03:17 PM
haha, what's that from? with the ears and the chess board that is definitely my dad. :D

LOL that's Geri from Geri's Game - a Pixar Short. He was also the guy who cleaned and repaired Woody in Toy Story 2. :D


Yeah, I was thinking about that the other day. He lives about 5 hours away and when we do get together I'm usually not in picture mode but I've gotta get some more good pictures of him. I don't have anything really good. :o

I feel the same way. I need to get my family together for some serious portraits.