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faisal
02-21-2009, 11:30 AM
So had to shoot some sandwiches, coffee and juices today. I have two issues...

On my screen with the brightness on medium (in the middle of the LCD brightness option), everything looks perfectly exposed...on transferring it to my pc the shots look underexposed such that I have to increase the exposure compensation by 1.5 minimum in DPP....Usually I require a compensation of 0.5 max but 1.5 is a bit too much....even on opening the file in CS3, It still looks underexposed...so it's not the software...this is annoying the hell out of me....got 300 shots to go through and would need to adjust it for all of them...I know I'm not doing anything wrong but if anyone could give me an explanation, it would help greatly satisfy my need to know what's going on...

Anyway to the main issue....I had to shoot transparent glass objects...I used a white background...the client wants the images provided with no background....obviously it's close to impossible to remove the white background from the glass....so should I even try to remove it or leave it as it is...

Example:
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/faisal7/400D/IMG_2362.jpg
(the clean bight white background is where the image will have no background)

Btw you can C&C on the picture also.....cause I know it's messed up!!!

JMWallace
02-21-2009, 12:11 PM
Not a bad shot at all Faisal.

I'm pretty sure this has to do with the metering. You're probably shooting on Evaluative which is picking up the very bright background and mostly exposing for that.

Might want to try center weighted or spot.

To define the edges of the glass a bit, you could have put strips of black on either side of the white backdrop. Kind-of 25% black on left, 50% white in the middle then another 25% black on the other side. That would actually help with dropping out the background because it will give you a more defined/crisp edge if you were going to something like the magic wand in PS.

I think I might have turned the glass a bit to more of the orange and possibly drop out the straw. I dunno tho, I usually play around with a scene quite a bit. I think it could have used a cherry in to give a little more character to the subject too.

Only really big thing for me is that it looks like the drink started to separate a bit during the shot. The gradation actually looks pretty cool, but at the top the drink looks a little...chunky.

Really did an excellent job of keeping the reflections down. Shoot glass isn't the easiest!!

timmciglobal
02-21-2009, 03:09 PM
What JM said but also it appears your camera isn't parallel with the glass. It appears to be tilted forward slightly at the top and to the left slightly.

Tim

Csae
02-21-2009, 05:25 PM
I've had that issue as well where i would take the shot and it would appear correctly exposed onscreen and then the raw would be obviously underexposed.

I am still not sure exactly what happened, but it hadn't happened to me before. So if you figure it out, let me know, because it ruined some of my shots. There is no reason the picture should be exposed differently on screen then in the raw, ever. Thats the whole reason we are doing this digital thing in the first place!

I had a portrait shot with a white background, and on screen it was white and in the raw it was neutral grey. between 1.5 to 2 stops difference there. Pretty brutal.

JMWallace
02-21-2009, 06:16 PM
There is no reason the picture should be exposed differently on screen then in the raw, ever.

I'm just guessing again, but the image preview you see on the camera screen is probably generated by the imbedded .jpg file which probably has the camera standard .jpg processing applied to it.

Also, the screen doesn't have a photo-sensative cell to adjust to ambient light so a lot of times it WILL look brighter (properly or over exposed) from the preview in a more dimly lit space just like it might look properly exposed or under exposed in the brightness of out doors.

Honestly, the easy solution here is to use your histograms...which I am guilty of not doing. :D:p

faisal
02-21-2009, 11:19 PM
Not a bad shot at all Faisal.

I'm pretty sure this has to do with the metering. You're probably shooting on Evaluative which is picking up the very bright background and mostly exposing for that.

Might want to try center weighted or spot.

Was using centre weighted...and I was on complete manual so I was anyway on settings where I was completely underexposing the shot but then the metering does not take into consideration the flash...that was bounced off some part of the room...


To define the edges of the glass a bit, you could have put strips of black on either side of the white backdrop. Kind-of 25% black on left, 50% white in the middle then another 25% black on the other side. That would actually help with dropping out the background because it will give you a more defined/crisp edge if you were going to something like the magic wand in PS.

I didn't get that at all...


I think I might have turned the glass a bit to more of the orange and possibly drop out the straw. I dunno tho, I usually play around with a scene quite a bit. I think it could have used a cherry in to give a little more character to the subject too.

Only really big thing for me is that it looks like the drink started to separate a bit during the shot. The gradation actually looks pretty cool, but at the top the drink looks a little...chunky.

Really did an excellent job of keeping the reflections down. Shoot glass isn't the easiest!!

This is not the only shot I've got...for 15 products I took about 300 shots....so the coffee shop people will have a lot of variety to choose from... ;)

The drink had started to separate but I like the way it looks....maybe I'll just photoshop it to reduce the chunky ness..

I don't know how I manage to keep the reflections down seeing how I was using the 430EX mounted on the camera with no diffuser or anything...just the plain old trick of bouncing off the walls or ceiling...



What JM said but also it appears your camera isn't parallel with the glass. It appears to be tilted forward slightly at the top and to the left slightly.

Tim

yeah, I think it's tilted to the left, will fix that....
I think I was parallel to the mid lower section of the glass...maybe that's why it looked titled forward....hmm...

24Peter
02-22-2009, 10:48 AM
Anyway to the main issue....I had to shoot transparent glass objects...I used a white background...the client wants the images provided with no background....obviously it's close to impossible to remove the white background from the glass....so should I even try to remove it or leave it as it is...


hi faisal - I think you did fine here too - esp considering you were using one light, on-camera.
As far as removing the background seen thru the glass, that's a tough one. I wouldn't bother unless they ask since there will be small detail in the glass that's needed to define the product. As an alternate, you can try selecting the grey areas in the glass and do a levels adjustment so the grey is now closer to white and the difference won't be so obvious (feather the selection so it blends smoothly.)

Glass is tough to shoot - esp. transparent glass. The only way to really shoot the transparent portions is to define the edges of the glass. Hence JM's suggestion of using black cards. The idea is if you have a bright background, that background should fill the camera's view. Then just outside the camera's view you place a dark material. Since the edges of the transparent glass are like convex (concave?) lenses, they will reflect the dark material along the edges and that will contrast with the light background seen through the non-convexing middle portion of the glass. Do the opposite for a dark background - i.e., place lighter colored material just outside the field of view of the camera and light that separately, letting the background go dark. This will define the edges of the transparent glass with a lighter color (usually white) than the transparent center portion of the glass.

Of course transparent liquids (eg., clear juice, wine, beer) in transparent glass containers complicates the issue further, but since you're not dealing with that here (your liquid is opaque), we'll save that discussion for another day! :)

faisal
02-22-2009, 11:03 AM
hi faisal - I think you did fine here too - esp considering you were using one light, on-camera.
As far as removing the background seen thru the glass, that's a tough one. I wouldn't bother unless they ask since there will be small detail in the glass that's needed to define the product. As an alternate, you can try selecting the grey areas in the glass and do a levels adjustment so the grey is now closer to white and the difference won't be so obvious (feather the selection so it blends smoothly.)

Glass is tough to shoot - esp. transparent glass. The only way to really shoot the transparent portions is to define the edges of the glass. Hence JM's suggestion of using black cards. The idea is if you have a bright background, that background should fill the camera's view. Then just outside the camera's view you place a dark material. Since the edges of the transparent glass are like convex (concave?) lenses, they will reflect the dark material along the edges and that will contrast with the light background seen through the non-convexing middle portion of the glass. Do the opposite for a dark background - i.e., place lighter colored material just outside the field of view of the camera and light that separately, letting the background go dark. This will define the edges of the transparent glass with a lighter color (usually white) than the transparent center portion of the glass.

Of course transparent liquids (eg., clear juice, wine, beer) in transparent glass containers complicates the issue further, but since you're not dealing with that here (your liquid is opaque), we'll save that discussion for another day! :)

Thanks Peter....

And that explanation makes more sense...should have asked before I went but didn't have the time...will keep that in mind next time...

I have a few transparent liquids to deal with, will post them once I'm done editing them!!!

JMWallace
02-22-2009, 11:46 AM
Thanks for giving a better explaination Pete. Hey, I guess that is why my wife went into teaching and I didn't...not very good at it!

Anyway, with my under-explained suggestion and Pete's very well explained suggestion, here is a pictoral representation that I found doing a quick search.

http://www.lowel.com/edu/lesson_lighting_glass.html

Really faisal, you did a great job. Glass stuff and anything else that reflects light is easy my any means. :D

faisal
02-22-2009, 12:56 PM
Thanks for giving a better explaination Pete. Hey, I guess that is why my wife went into teaching and I didn't...not very good at it!

Anyway, with my under-explained suggestion and Pete's very well explained suggestion, here is a pictoral representation that I found doing a quick search.

http://www.lowel.com/edu/lesson_lighting_glass.html

Really faisal, you did a great job. Glass stuff and anything else that reflects light is easy my any means. :D

aaaaahh!!! Now I get it completely...thanks for the link JMWallace :)

And Thanks for the compliment.... :D

Here are a few more shots I managed....C&C welcome

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/faisal7/400D/IMG_2093.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/faisal7/400D/IMG_2179-1.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/faisal7/400D/IMG_2345.jpg

What I'd like to know is how should I give them the shot...i.e the way I do it lately with a lot of contrast similar to the above shots or keep it simple and neutral....

JMWallace
02-22-2009, 01:14 PM
First, I would narrow it down to 2 or 3 of your favorites per item...unless they are leaving the choices completely up to you.

Then, either print watermarked images on a proof sheet or deliver (ftp, website, DVD, etc) watermarked low res files to them to preview and approve. These can usually be untouched RAW Proof files.

Than I once they have given the approval of specific images, THEN spend your time editing. Once they see the finished product vs. proof....you'll get a WOW!

Csae
02-22-2009, 08:15 PM
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/faisal7/400D/IMG_2345.jpg



I really like this one faisal, but i have to suggest you try a trick for the straw because its horribly out of focus and kinda ruins it for me.

You know how to do manual hdr? Well do it for focus. And get that straw in focus man, because thats an awesome shot. I like the cropping and the contrast and detail, the glass looks awesome, just the straw... :(

faisal
02-22-2009, 11:52 PM
First, I would narrow it down to 2 or 3 of your favorites per item...unless they are leaving the choices completely up to you.

Then, either print watermarked images on a proof sheet or deliver (ftp, website, DVD, etc) watermarked low res files to them to preview and approve. These can usually be untouched RAW Proof files.

Than I once they have given the approval of specific images, THEN spend your time editing. Once they see the finished product vs. proof....you'll get a WOW!

All I know is that they want lots of close up shots...the typical menu shots that you get...so in the end I have complete control over what I give them cause the short preview I gave them on my netbook, they didn't seem to know the difference between a bad shot and a good shot... :rolleyes:

I can't give them untouched RAW cause most of them are underexposed... :o

The thing with me to give them neutral coloured shots is that I was told by a guy in a publishing firm that having high contrast/saturation for a photo meant for print isn't the best idea cause when the same image is shown on the computer it may seem nice cause the screen has it's own source of light, but when the same image is printed on a magazine, the image has no light source of its own, that is why CMYK is used and he told me something else that I don't remember...

So giving them neutral coloured images in psd format and providing a few JPEG just to illustrate what can be done to the images is my way of doing it now...though I really like your idea and might do it next time...it makes more sense and reduces work time for me....


I really like this one faisal, but i have to suggest you try a trick for the straw because its horribly out of focus and kinda ruins it for me.

You know how to do manual hdr? Well do it for focus. And get that straw in focus man, because thats an awesome shot. I like the cropping and the contrast and detail, the glass looks awesome, just the straw... :(

you mean focus stacking....well I didn't think of doing it then for this shot and can't do it now... :(

Maybe I'll just clown the straw out completely!!!