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crump
08-12-2008, 06:17 AM
Hi,

I'm looking at purchasing my first SLR camera, and was wanting some advice. I've been recommended the above two (Canon EOS 450D & Nikon D60) by a friend, and was wanting to know the pros and cons of each?

I'm looking at something entry level, but not something that I'm going to outgrow quickly, so not tooo basic. Any other suggestions would be great!

Thanks for any help! :)

Rooz
08-12-2008, 06:37 AM
the 450d is the best entry level dslr on the market right now. pretty much end of thread. :)

Beowulff
08-12-2008, 08:32 AM
You can check out Jeff's reviews, with sample images HERE (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/nikon/d60-review/) and HERE (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/eos_rebel_xsi-review/index.shtml).

Good luck :)

Turn
08-12-2008, 09:19 AM
I own 450D and its good times

I am loving the rawness

raven15
08-12-2008, 06:56 PM
Not even a close contest, XSi by a mile (not a big fan of the D60). But don't limit yourself to those two.

crump
08-12-2008, 08:36 PM
Thanks guys,

Raven, what else would you suggest?

I'm also looking at the Canon 40D, is it much harder to use than the 450D? Is there a difference in picture quality, or is it just the features that are different? :p

Turn
08-12-2008, 08:56 PM
the 40D from what I gathered has higher continous shooting and higher ISO range while being more solid built

Fiasco
08-12-2008, 08:57 PM
Thanks guys,

Raven, what else would you suggest?

I'm also looking at the Canon 40D, is it much harder to use than the 450D? Is there a difference in picture quality, or is it just the features that are different? :p

If the 40D is within your budget, get the 40D. It's not any harder to use than a 450D, but it is a much, much better camera.

That said you have to look at it from your own point of view... what do you want the camera for? Are you a hobbyist or do you plan on getting serious with photography? These questions can help you determine whether or not it's worth it to get a camera body in a price bracket above the entry level models. Not to say you can't get great results with an entry level body, quite the contrary. I know a photographer who gets amazing results from his 2 400D (Rebel XTi) bodies.

crump
08-12-2008, 10:02 PM
At the moment, it's just a hobby. However, for only a couple of hundred dollars price difference, I'd prefer to get the better camera! :)

Is there a noticable difference in quality in terms of megapixels? I know the 40D has only 10 as opposed to the 450D's 12...

timmciglobal
08-12-2008, 10:21 PM
I don't think you'll outgrow an XSI. I recently "upgraded" from a 30D to an XSI.

The XSI has some advantages over the 40D in resolution and live view (contrast detect AF for tripod shooting) and price while the 40D trumps it in build, FPS and buffer.

I'd suggest you buy the XSI kit and spend the extra 400$ on a nice telephoto lens. If however you've got "1100" + 400 more, then go ahead and buy a 40D and a nice telephoto lens.

Lens makes pictures. XSI/40D sensor wise is near no difference.

Tim

raven15
08-12-2008, 10:32 PM
Well, in my own round of this-beats-that-beats-that, my list of cameras I like narrows down to (in order of increasing price and generally size):

Olympus E-420 (sweet!)
Pentax K200 (for particular needs)
Canon XSi (you can't go wrong)
Sony A700 ???
Nikon D300 ???
Nikon D700 ...

Though, anything larger and more expensive than the XSi and I don't really know enough to be advising either way. The 40D is undoubtedly a great camera, I don't know enough about it.

What will you be using it for? What kinds of pictures do you take? Features you like? The XSi is an excellent choice for anything unless you have particular needs which you would know about already if you had them (though Olympus lenses make Canon lenses look boring and pedestrian).

Joe Fisher
08-12-2008, 10:40 PM
I had an Xti for 5 months, then got a 40D. I"ll tell you the reasons why, I shoot dog agility. Very high speeds, often held in dark barns.

1. The 40D has a higher ISO of 3200, the XSi (unless it's changed from the Xti) is limited to 1600
2. From what I read, the 40D is faster focusing. That was compared to the Xti, not sure about the XSi
3. The 40D has a continuous shooting rate of 6.5 fps. Not sure about the XSi, the XTi is 3.5 fps or so.

I wasn't sure about the 40D since I wanted to take the camera on hikes, but with an M-rock V-shaped top load bag (http://www.m-rock.com/yellowstone-29-58.htm) and a LowePro harness (http://products.lowepro.com/product/Topload-Zoom-Chest-Harness,2054,32.htm), carrying the 40D is no big deal at all. I"m not sure if that's the M-rock model I have, but I know that I tried both Lowe Pro and M-rock, the M-rock fits much better.

My "walk around" lens I have on the camera most of the time is my Sigma 18-200. I can drop the camera in the case with the lens hood attached. It fits perfectly.

One thing to note. The XSi uses SD cards, the 40D used Compact Flash.

One hugely unexpected bonus, I ***love*** the ergonomics of the 40D. It's a bigger and heavier body, but it fits my hands so well. It has a wheel on the back and well as a turn thingie on top. The XTi only has the turn thingie on top.

As someone else said, go for the 40D if you can afford it.
10 vs. 12 megapixel.....Pah..that's really insignificant.


At the moment, it's just a hobby. However, for only a couple of hundred dollars price difference, I'd prefer to get the better camera! :)

Is there a noticable difference in quality in terms of megapixels? I know the 40D has only 10 as opposed to the 450D's 12...

fionndruinne
08-12-2008, 11:31 PM
If you're looking at the 40D, take a look at the Nikon D80 too. I've never met anyone who owned that camera who had anything but good to say about it. It is getting slightly out-of-date what with recent advancements in DSLRs out there, but still holds its own. Or wait for the D90, which I'm sure isn't going to be a disappointing follow-up. But if you can afford it, I'd recommend this level (D80/90, 40D) above the entry-level range, since you seem to want the features, and ergonomics are a definite improvement with the bigger, better-built cameras.

Rooz
08-12-2008, 11:35 PM
Nikon D300 ???
Nikon D700.

way to raise the bar raven ! lol
i think the nikon option you're looking or is the soon-to-be-released d90 which will come in at around the $1200 mark with lens. not quite a $3k d700 though. lol

JTL
08-12-2008, 11:47 PM
(though Olympus lenses make Canon lenses look boring and pedestrian).You mean like these boring and pedestrian lenses?:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542292-REG/Canon_2297B002_Telephoto_EF_200mm_f_2L.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542293-REG/Canon_2746B002_EF_800mm_f_5_6L_IS.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/186153-USA/Canon_2534A002_Telephoto_EF_600mm_f_4_0L.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/183202-USA/Canon_2531A002_Telephoto_EF_300mm_f_2_8L.html

Rooz
08-13-2008, 12:04 AM
not to mention the 85/1.2 ...

TheWengler
08-13-2008, 12:40 AM
You mean like these boring and pedestrian lenses?:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542292-REG/Canon_2297B002_Telephoto_EF_200mm_f_2L.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542293-REG/Canon_2746B002_EF_800mm_f_5_6L_IS.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/186153-USA/Canon_2534A002_Telephoto_EF_600mm_f_4_0L.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/183202-USA/Canon_2531A002_Telephoto_EF_300mm_f_2_8L.html

Pffth! Paperweights! Now this is a lens...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/366728-USA/Pentax_21550_40mm_f_2_8_Limited_Autofocus.html

Kidding of course...:p

Turn
08-13-2008, 02:02 AM
don't fall for the megapixel game, (I have an XSi but shoot at medium/6megapixels)

to me the 450D is your winner

raven15
08-13-2008, 05:10 PM
Well... the D700 was over the top, but that is sorta my ranking. However, I place a value on smaller = better, so there is definitely a gap in my range where the D80 and 40D. However, the D80 (and D90 ! ) and 40D would be more commonly used by people who describe themselves as "hobbyists." The XSi is more of an "I just want good pictures camera". I guess the question is, is the hobby about good pictures, or good equipment?

JTL,
Yup, those were the ones I was talking about.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/405348-REG/Olympus_261013_90_250mm_f_2_8_ED_Zuiko.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/404517-REG/Olympus_261012_35_100mm_f_2_0_ED_Zuiko.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546539-REG/Olympus_261011_14_35mm_f_2_0_ED_SWD.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/301933-REG/Olympus_261004_300mm_f_2_8_ED_Lens.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/527566-REG/Olympus_261015_50_200mm_f_2_8_3_5_ED_SWD.html

Rooz was actually more on the right track, since Oly mysteriously doesn't make a 1.0 55mm prime (or virtually any primes for that matter). You'd think they'd do that to compensate for the smaller sensor.

crump
08-14-2008, 12:19 AM
If I went for the Canon 40D, what sort of lenses would you recommend?

TheWengler
08-14-2008, 01:14 AM
If I went for the Canon 40D, what sort of lenses would you recommend?

This is way too vague. What's your budget? What will you be shooting?

crump
08-14-2008, 03:10 AM
Haha, it is vague. Just general shooting, nothing specific yet. Not too expensive. Maybe one for portait type shots, and one for landscapes?

lukeap69
08-15-2008, 01:06 PM
My suggestion

Option 1 - Tamron 17-50 2.8 - I've been using this for my landscape photos. It is not too wide at 17 but so far I did not want wider than this.

You can use the 50 for portrait. Or you can partner it with 50 1.4, Canon or Sigma.

Option 2 - Sigma 30 and Sigma 50 1.4.

30 for general shooting, and 50 for portrait. If you can add 85 1.8 or 100 2, then you can have reach outdoors.