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dxrocnxj
09-16-2007, 12:27 AM
i dont know the big differences, but theres a mint d70 on ebay for really cheap, body only.

i want to scoop it up, so im not just stuck with my af-s only lenses with my d40.

should i grab it?

r3g
09-16-2007, 12:53 AM
I dont know the difference between the D70 and D70s besides the S model is newer. The D70 is an old camera but can still get some good pics, if you can afford it without hurting your pocket I dont see why you shouldnt pick it up.

K1W1
09-16-2007, 02:45 AM
Thom Hogan has a review that shows the differences between the 70 and D70s.

Link here. (http://www.bythom.com/D70REVIEW.HTM)

coldrain
09-16-2007, 03:45 AM
The D70s is better in a few areas. It id a bit better nosie wise, it has a bit more accurate colour balance (still a bit cool), it sharpens less (a bit les moire and other artifacts, yet still worse than other DSLRs).

If the price difference between a D70 and a D70s is not too big, then I would go for the D70s.
Depending on what lenses youw ant to use it most certianly may be worth it, a D70s next to your D40.

cvicisso
09-16-2007, 12:48 PM
i dont know the big differences, but theres a mint d70 on ebay for really cheap, body only.

i want to scoop it up, so im not just stuck with my af-s only lenses with my d40.

should i grab it?The 'AF-S only' lens dilemma that you mention is the very same reason that I bought the D70 instead of the D40 (see my other thread). I did the same thing - saw a great buy on ebay and scooped it up.

I think that the D70 2.0 firmware update essentially turns the D70 into a D70s - except of course for the 2.0" vs. 1.8" LCD (and the name badge ;)). Read Thom Hagan's comparison from K1W1's link - it was one of the things I read before I made my purchase.

However, unless there's a similar great deal on a D70s, why would you bother comparing these two cameras? A great deal is a great deal - there are always going to be better cameras out there. Pull the trigger and don't look back.

That being said, I have to say that part of the reason I bought the D70 is because of the OUTSTANDING kit lens (the 18-70mm) that usually comes with it. Seriously - this is not an ordinary kit lens and represents a substantial value when considering a D70 purchase. The ebay 'buy-it-now' price for this lens is currently hovering around the $160 range - so you really should consider this when comparing D70 body-only deals with D70 full-kit deals. I know you already have lenses, but you should still plug that $160 into your calculations because you could resell it (but I think you would keep it and sell your D40 lens!).

Anyway - good luck! Let us know how it turns out.

cvicisso
09-16-2007, 01:03 PM
I was wrong.

The D70 kit lens is worth even more than I thought. :D Check here (http://attr-search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=pf&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&fcl=3&from=R10&satitle=18-70&sacat=78997%26catref%3DC6%26curcat%3Dtrue&a25563=-24&a41840=25485&a14=25485&a41842=-24&a10244=-24&alist=a25563%2Ca41840%2Ca14%2Ca41842%2Ca42078%2Ca1 0244&pfmode=1&reqtype=1&gcs=1826&pfid=2595&pf_query=18-70&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=23455&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=2%26fsoo%3D2&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search).

Again, much of the 'value' in buying a D70 today is in the kit lens. The body-only sales I've seen have not been reduced by the actual value of the lens you would be giving up - so you are essentially paying more for the body (without the lens).

For example, if I bought a D70+lens kit on ebay for $500, but didn't want/need the lens, so resold the lens on ebay for $200, that means I paid $300 for the D70 body in the end.

I have not seen ANY D70 body-only auctions for $300 (or less).

Just something to think about.

cvicisso
09-17-2007, 09:00 AM
I think that the D70 2.0 firmware update essentially turns the D70 into a D70s - except of course for the 2.0" vs. 1.8" LCD (and the name badge ;)). I forgot about the cable release. The D70s has a connector for a wired remote - the D70 does not. This may sound silly, and it has been covered in other threads, but it actually may be a factor if you plan on doing tripod work outdoors where you can't bounce the IR remote off the walls (sensor is in front of the camera) and need to trip the shutter remotely and can't stand in front of the camera.

There are, of course, rigs to get around this D70 shortfall, but that all means extra $$.

Jason25
09-17-2007, 12:11 PM
I just put my hand in front of the camera with the remote turned around, no need to bounce the signal.

The D70/D70s is a great camera and still very worthwhile. I'd keep my D70s if I didn't want to recoup some of my D200 purchase money.

fionndruinne
09-17-2007, 12:36 PM
The D40 kit lens is very good too, better than the older 18-55mm model. Don't know how the 18-70mm would compare, but seeing as they overlap pretty substantially, I'd focus on lensing with other benefits (macro/wide angle/large aperture).

Seriously, I don't see the D40 lens selection as limited. Unless you want primes, and with the quality of modern zooms, it's almost a waste of money to buy a prime unless you really need the wider aperture (wider than f/2.8). You just have to think third-party (Sigma) a little.

dxrocnxj, what kind of lenses do you feel you're missing out on?

cvicisso
09-17-2007, 02:41 PM
Seriously, I don't see the D40 lens selection as limited. Unless you want primes, and with the quality of modern zooms, it's almost a waste of money to buy a prime unless you really need the wider aperture (wider than f/2.8). You just have to think third-party (Sigma) a little.

dxrocnxj, what kind of lenses do you feel you're missing out on?Good question. I did a Google search, and found this excellent database (link here (http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/lenses.html))

Not sure how up to date it is, but it looks pretty good. I did a quick web-query import to MS Excel so I could count and categorize, and came up with 83 Nikon AF lenses and 34 AF-S lenses. So that's 34 lenses that can be used with the D40/X and 117 for all other Nikon dslr bodies. I threw out the manual focus lenses.

Now, 34 lenses is actually not too shabby. But, if you throw out the primes as you suggest (and I tend to agree that modern zooms are probably all most of us need), that leaves 19 zooms for the D40/X and 61 for the other Nikon dslrs. Seven of those 19 AF-S zooms go to f/2.8 (but are expensive). So, the D70 has over three times as many Nikkor autofocus zooms available to choose from as compared to the D40/X.

BUT, if those 19 AF-S zooms cover everything you think you'll need (at the price point you'll need!), then the D40 truly is an outstanding choice.

fionndruinne
09-17-2007, 02:54 PM
When one comes up with a list of Nikkor lenses, though, it doesn't take into account that only a small minority of those lenses are ones you would need or want to use as a modern photographer with a DSLR. Out of the most common Nikkor lenses today, many are AF-S.

You do realize, don't you, that Sigma HSM lenses function just like Nikkor AF-S lenses on the D40? And as you can see here (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/news/news.asp?nID=3356), there are a lot of good options. Most are pricier than a budget Nikkor, but better, and cheaper than a high-quality Nikkor equivalent by quite a bit.

cvicisso
09-17-2007, 02:56 PM
The D40 kit lens is very good too, better than the older 18-55mm model. Don't know how the 18-70mm would compare, but seeing as they overlap pretty substantially, I'd focus on lensing with other benefits (macro/wide angle/large aperture).Here's what people are currently paying (via ebay) for the D40 kit lens (link here (http://attr-search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&fcl=3&from=R10&satitle=18-55&sacat=78997%26catref%3DC6%26curcat%3Dtrue&a25563=-24&a41840=25485&a14=25485&a41842=-24&a10244=-24&alist=a25563%2Ca41840%2Ca14%2Ca41842%2Ca42078%2Ca1 0244&pfmode=1&reqtype=1&gcs=1826&pfid=2595&pf_query=18-55&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=23455&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=2%26fsoo%3D2&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search)).

That's about 1/2 the going rate for the D70's 18-70 (link here (http://attr-search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=pf&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&fcl=3&from=R10&satitle=18-70&sacat=78997%26catref%3DC6%26curcat%3Dtrue&a25563=-24&a41840=25485&a14=25485&a41842=-24&a10244=-24&alist=a25563%2Ca41840%2Ca14%2Ca41842%2Ca42078%2Ca1 0244&pfmode=1&reqtype=1&gcs=1826&pfid=2595&pf_query=18-70&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=23455&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=2%26fsoo%3D2&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search)).

Now, I'm sure that the D40 kit lens is nice, but all I was saying is that IF you're buying a D70, you should really consider the kit lens because it is frequently WAY undervalued when buying the D70+lens 'kit.' The 18-55 D40 lens is lighter (way), but the D70 18-70 is faster and has more range. Some say it (the 18-70) 'feels' higher quality - but I've never handled the 18-55 so I can't comment.

cvicisso
09-17-2007, 03:11 PM
When one comes up with a list of Nikkor lenses, though, it doesn't take into account that only a small minority of those lenses are ones you would need or want to use as a modern photographer with a DSLR. Out of the most common Nikkor lenses today, many are AF-S.

You do realize, don't you, that Sigma HSM lenses function just like Nikkor AF-S lenses on the D40? And as you can see here (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/news/news.asp?nID=3356), there are a lot of good options. Most are pricier than a budget Nikkor, but better, and cheaper than a high-quality Nikkor equivalent by quite a bit.I totally agree with everything you said, and yes - I do know that Sigma HSM lenses will work (fully) on a D40. That's a great selection that Sigma has. I was just trying to elaborate on the original post, which mentioned being 'stuck' with AF-S only lenses on the D40, and seemed to be comparing the D70 with the D70s.

That's also a good point about modern photographic needs versus legacy AF lenses. The AF-S/HSM lenses answer the mail for 99% of what most of us need/want today. I'd like to dabble in low-light/shallow field of focus, so I'm looking at the big-aperture stuff (but still dreaming...). My D70 won't meter with my old manual focus 50/1.8, so I'm thinking of spending the measly $100 on a AF 50/1.8.

The D40 is a great camera - I'm not trying to 'dis it at all! :D

dxrocnxj
09-17-2007, 10:29 PM
i apologize for the lack in response, havent been able to login as much as id like.

but anyways thanks so much for all the feedback, i appreciate it.

i am aware of the sigma lenses as well, but i just feel like i could buy MORE glass at a cheaper price range with a d70. all new lenses are clearly going to be more expensive, but im a college student on a very fixed budget.

so my question is: is it worth it to buy the d70 and buy af lenses or should i save the money i get to get the new af-s or hsm lenses?

fionndruinne
09-17-2007, 10:48 PM
It all depends on the lenses you want. If you can get a non AF-S lens of a specific kind for a low price, as opposed to a very high price or not at all in AF-S/HSM, then yeah, getting another body would be wise. But how many really specific lens options are you going to need which can't be filled with the in-lens-motored options out there?

All that comes to mind really (besides some good macros) are very fast primes like the Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 and f/1.4, and the 85mm. And yes, they'll gather more light than an f/2.8 Sigma HSM lens, but is that something you're really going to need? If so, well, there you go (unless you're willing to pay $400 for the Sigma 30mm f/1.4, which isn't really expensive for what you're getting).

Another point is that a Sigma EX lens (most of their HSM options are EX) is a much better-built piece than a budget Nikkor like the 50mm. Made of metal, with a better finish. These lenses will probably outlast Nikkors available for less money.

Personally I'm going to wait, and spend the (somewhat) big bucks for good HSM lenses. What you do is up to you, but for the price of a used D70 I'd think you could apprehend a good HSM lens right now.

tcadwall
09-18-2007, 07:19 AM
Another thing besides just the lenses, is that it might be very advantageous to have two bodies depending on what you are shooting. Mount a AF-D prime on the D70, and your AF-S zoom lens on the D40 and you are ready to get shots without having to change lenses.

You know there are several other great lenses that are cheaper options if you get the D70 as well. The Nikkor 80-200 f/2.8 is a great used lens to buy. It surely isn't as good as the 70-200mm but it is still a very good lens that WILL work on the D70 and not the D40, and it will cost you a lot less than the 70-200mm