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XaiLo
08-25-2007, 04:09 PM
Has anyone sold a 16x20 portrait print... If so would you mind telling me what it was sold for I'm trying a baseline for fair pricing. So far I've just found pricing all over the place. thanks in advance.:)

Rooz
08-25-2007, 05:15 PM
depends how you charge in general. ie: do you charge by the hour for your time plus PP time added on etc.

personally, i don't see the need to charge extra for the print size; at the end of the day its the same file/ photo whether you print at 8x10 or 16x20. your time at the shoot and PP time is far more valuable. i simply add the cost of the print to the final price.

jcon
08-25-2007, 06:33 PM
It depends on the type of print. Is it just a standard print? Canvas? Wrap? Any special sprays or textures to treat the print? I guess, it also comes down to whatever you will be happy with getting for your work.

I respectfully disagree with Rooz. I charge different for each print size, as it costs me more to have them printed at the ProLab. I also know alot of other Pro's in my area that charge based on size.

Good luck and let us know what you decide on!

Rooz
08-25-2007, 07:18 PM
It depends on the type of print. Is it just a standard print? Canvas? Wrap? Any special sprays or textures to treat the print? I guess, it also comes down to whatever you will be happy with getting for your work.

I respectfully disagree with Rooz. I charge different for each print size, as it costs me more to have them printed at the ProLab. I also know alot of other Pro's in my area that charge based on size.

Good luck and let us know what you decide on!

sorry J, i may not have been clear enuf. i meant i charge the cost of the print size they ask for. i don;t put anything on top of that though. its purely what the photolab charges. to be honest, i very rarely have anyone asking for prints at all anymore, (i don't do any weddings though), most people want it on a DVD/ CD and they can choose whatever they want from there.

thats why i asked how X charges. i know some people who charge everything per size in a package and factor everything into that charging model but don't charge a per hour fee. ie: say 16x20 print is $300. but that would include not only the printing cost but also their time.

a friend of mine who does pro weddings does it this way. he gives a flat package fee and dosnt break it down into time or prints. he just says package A is 100 5x7's, 20 8x10's all in an album and 1 16x20 for the wall. he also charges the same way for a "parent package" etc etc. but anything varying from the set package fee is charged per print size and its very expensive. he gives no raw files at all for 7years, only thumbnails for them to view. all future ordering of any photo must be done thru him. you have to be VERY good to be able to charge like that...which he is and i'm not ! lol

i do it the other way around. so i would say it costs you "$X" for my time at the shoot and costs another "$X" on top if you want special effects in CS3. that includes putting everything onto a DVD. Print is extra and i just give them the printing cost charges from my fave printing lab.

if anyone else more experienced at charging has a better way, i'm all ears. :)

jcon
08-25-2007, 09:32 PM
Sorry for the misunderstanding, Rooz:D

XaiLo
08-25-2007, 10:42 PM
I'm venturing into new territory here, in the past pictures were part of a project so it was an all inclusive deal. It's only been lately that people are requesting pictures from me. The situation with this particular picture was I was taking pictures at church (typically I cover various events) and my Pastor wanted some pictures of the congregation. As he was thumbing through the pics he liked one I took of him and said he wanted it like this big. And that was pretty much the end of the conversation.

Previously in the past I charge $50 plus an hour for photo/graphics creation editing etc. I've actually asked $60 for the picture which he's agreed to... but as I mentioned earlier when I tried to check priceing it was like all over the place so I'm just trying to figure out the ryhme or reasoning behind priceing. Thanks for your response's guys.

I agree with jcon you have to charge what you think your worth especially when setting a president and of course what your market will bear. But considering this is my Pastor I wanted to be reasonable They're paid a flat salary by the conference.

I also agree with your friends position Rooz, this is a costly profession/hobby and the only way to control the cash flow is by controlling the product or ownership thereof. I am intending to stop giving away image files, it appears to me that in the long run it will come back to bite me. Enevitably a paying will run into a non-paying and surely that will in no doubt lead to complications. Not that I think that I'm that good either Rooz, but from a business perspective I'll be standing on a little bit more solid ground.

People are starting to request my services without any promotion on my part. So it's my market that's driving my actions. I'm ending up where I had intended on going a little ahead of schedule. Funny considering there was no actual schedule laid out. Hence this is taking me a little off guard. But, I know what I do now will effect my future. Scramble mode here I come. Thanks again. :)

r3g
08-25-2007, 10:57 PM
Gee X you saved me from having to make a thread. I too am getting to the point where people want to hire me for events and photoshoots. Wasnt exactly sure what the best way of going about pricing was but now I have a pretty good idea. I personally prefer it if customers just want the finished pics on CD/DVD because that saves you from having to get it printed and since most people only charge cost for prints your not losing anything.

jcon
08-25-2007, 11:00 PM
I think $60 is a fair price for the both of you. That is somewhat close to what I would charge for a wedding portrait that size. That size isnt very popular, atleast for the weddings and portraits I have done. 8X10 still seems to be the favorite, so I charge accordingly, usually in the $30 per print area.

Also, maybe you could work out a deal with the Pastor and maybe when couples come in for wedding advice, he could recommend you, and vice versa.

XaiLo
08-25-2007, 11:56 PM
Glad I could help r3g;)

jcon, my Pastor actually did have a few suggestions for me I'm in the process of mulling them over in my head. I also need to set up a website. I've been trying to avoid the website deal. Got to quit being lazy and get it done.

nap
08-28-2007, 08:57 PM
Hi Xailo! I've read that same dilemma from someone before who I think has the same photography background as you do. Many people chipped in their comments and I believe that he charged $70 for a print of a photo. Initially, he wanted to charge $10 because according him, he really didn't spend much on that shot. But when others told him that he shouldn't be underpricing himself because it may hurt his reputation early in his photography career (he wanted to turn pro someday).

Ya, I believe $60 is a good start.

Would you believe that $60 from where I am will already gives you a couple of hours' worth of photography services (probably more than 200 digital pictures)? :D

XaiLo
08-28-2007, 10:52 PM
Hi nap, your wife have that baby yet? must have cause I haven't seen any posts from you lately. Congrats :D. And thanks for chimeing in. Yeah thank GOD for America. 200 clicks and two hours is a lot for $60:) Yeah I've seen pricing up in the $600 range for the same size print.

nap
08-29-2007, 09:18 PM
Hi nap, your wife have that baby yet? must have cause I haven't seen any posts from you lately. Congrats :D. And thanks for chimeing in. Yeah thank GOD for America. 200 clicks and two hours is a lot for $60:) Yeah I've seen pricing up in the $600 range for the same size print.

Thanks Xailo! Yup, our baby's out now (she's already four months old). The subject of 99% of my photos is our baby and the overly safe dad (that's me!) doesn't want to post much of her photos on the Net.

For the low end here, there are wedding photo and video packages for as low as $200 inclusive of 100 4R prints, a few 8R prints, and a 1-hour video DVD.

XaiLo
08-30-2007, 05:23 AM
Congrats nap, will say a prayer for all of you. My best to all. My two grandchildren will be dedicated in about a week.

I'd definately say our markets are different nap.

r3g
08-30-2007, 10:30 AM
Hey X, dont mean to hijack your thread but all this talk of printing got me wondering. Ive never printed before and I know these are novice questions but bare with me. Ive notices all these stated print sizes are all lengthy). The D40 has an aspect ratio of 3:2, So if I have a photo that was taken in wideangle how would I be able to print at any of those sizes without doing some serious cropping?? I tried in photoshop but the proportions were all wrong and made the picture stretch vertically.

fionndruinne
08-30-2007, 11:14 AM
Actual dimensions for a 3:2 image is not 8x10, but 8x12 (which is a big difference!). I don't mind the print size, but try finding framing for 8x12. It's frustrating.

r3g
08-30-2007, 11:41 AM
Yes but when an image is taken with the D40 it would be 12x8 not 8x12 because the photos are larger width wise. But every time I look at print sizes they are the opposite so... If I have a photo what wasnt taken vertically how would I go about getting to printed for all these vertical sized without heavy cropping, or would I HAVE to get it printed width long just as the picture was taken? O.o

XaiLo
08-30-2007, 11:57 AM
No worries r3g, as far as I know the only way to it in photoshop would be to turn off constrain proportions in the image resize dialog box, but it's a 99% chance you will not like the results. You have to print to paper that has the same aspect ratio i.e. 4x6, 8x12, and 20x30 to get everything to fit without cropping. As best as I can tell... maybe there is a way around this but I don't know what it is. hth r3g :)

XaiLo
08-30-2007, 12:05 PM
I don't know how various print programs would handle the vertical orientation but I would think the software would compensate for it. I've only ordered online and have not tried a vertical print but push come to shove you can always rotate the canvas 90 degrees CW or CCW.

r3g
08-30-2007, 12:53 PM
Ah. I just found it odd that I never see print sizes that are horizontal. Ive noticed that when people want prints they are always vertical. Especially portraits. Just wanted to make sure it wasnt a rule of printing that they are vertical -_- .

XaiLo
08-30-2007, 02:34 PM
OK, I see what your saying now r3g, I'm sure it has to do with type setting the way a printed page is viewed.

toriaj
08-30-2007, 03:21 PM
What I've started doing when I have an unusual crop is to put a huge border around the picture. That way when the printer crops it, it will crop out part of the border, and not the picture. You're still left with the problem of how to frame it, but perhaps a custom mat would do the trick.

Here's an example of what I mean (it probably wouldn't have to be this big: )
28125

Another option is to use a custom printing/framing company. Americanframe.com will print, mat, and frame to custom sizes.

nap
08-30-2007, 10:08 PM
Yes but when an image is taken with the D40 it would be 12x8 not 8x12 because the photos are larger width wise. But every time I look at print sizes they are the opposite so... If I have a photo what wasnt taken vertically how would I go about getting to printed for all these vertical sized without heavy cropping, or would I HAVE to get it printed width long just as the picture was taken? O.o

Wait, isn't this solved by simply rotating the image?

r3g
08-30-2007, 11:38 PM
Rotating the picture would make it show horizontally on a vertical canvas.

fionndruinne
08-30-2007, 11:56 PM
As far as I know images are automatically rotated to fit the aspect ratio when printed... I've had 8x12's made of both landscape and portrait mode photos, and both were printed correctly without any special instructions from me.

r3g
08-31-2007, 01:26 AM
So youve had a landscape picture printed in vertical orientation? Because thats what I was getting at.

tcadwall
08-31-2007, 06:16 AM
ok, maybe I am missing the point because it seems like it has become much more difficult here than what it should be....

Since all my shots that are destined to be printed are raw images, Bibble is the first stage of edits (which by the way does work amazingly on Vista Ultimate x64 if anyone was wondering - though I think it does run in a 32bit workspace). In Bibble I simply choose a crop for the image based on the desired print size. If I choose 8x10 then it throws a crop rectangle up on the image, and I can proportionally stretch, or constrain, and move it to the desired portion of the image. It also of course allows you to change the orientation of the crop. On a separate panel in Bibble you choose your output dpi. I choose output dpi of 300 most of the time. If my actual crop is 250dpi the output is still 300dpi and I am quite happy with the Bibble interpolation. I actually printed a 5x7 for a recent wedding, and it had been cropped down to a VERY small portion of the image. The print still came out beautifully. It shocked the crap out of me.

This is necessary to ensure that YOU control the crop and not the lab. Letting the lab do the crop often will result in important portions of your image going missing on the print.

Now as far as landscape or portrait - it doesn't matter. I have never sent a print in that the lab couldn't get the orientation right. It is automatic.

If you are doing prints for framing do NOT print a border on them it makes matting them non-standard - meaning you will need custom framing. Just make sure that your crop is not too tight and allows an 1/8" or so on each side for the matting. A border will make it painfully obvious if something doesn't line up perfectly in an off- the-shelf frame.

Ok, how about a strange size? My daughter was in a modeling class / certification program recently that included a photoshoot with a pro that they brought in from New York. The sitting was included with the class, but the cd / prints / etc. were something that you purchased yourself if you wanted them. I did purchase the cd. The photographer explained to me that it has become very popular for models to provide 8x12 headshots now. Since that is the natural framing for the camera, it sure does make the job easier on the photographer - huh?

fionndruinne
08-31-2007, 04:43 PM
So youve had a landscape picture printed in vertical orientation?

Maybe I'm dense... but I don't get exactly what you mean by this.

Vich
08-31-2007, 04:56 PM
Sorry to interrupt. Back to the original question.

For better or worse, I charge about 2x the print cost when it's above 11x14 (that I charge 4x for). That's for a wedding where there's plenty of "other compensation". The wedding couple got a "print credit" that gets them all they would probably want, so it's more for the others and to create a sense of value.

So a 16x20 Canvas, mounted and wrapped on the edges, I'll price at about $150. A regular print, maybe 1/3 that.

If it were a portrait session, where you may only expect 1 large print, I believe that the cost must reflect all the photos that *didn't* make the cut, plus a bonus for actually achieving one that is worthy of then viewing on the wall daily. Frames, after all, may cost $150. A friend spent $450 on a frame not much bigger than that.

Note: Can't say as I've actually sold more than a few. So take my advice with a proverbial grain.

toriaj
08-31-2007, 04:59 PM
If you are doing prints for framing do NOT print a border on them it makes matting them non-standard - meaning you will need custom framing. Just make sure that your crop is not too tight and allows an 1/8" or so on each side for the matting. A border will make it painfully obvious if something doesn't line up perfectly in an off- the-shelf frame.

Perhaps I wasn't clear -- I don't mean for any part of the border to show in the final matted/framed presentation. I just add a border for printing purposes, if I have an odd size. That way the printer crops out border instead of my actual shot. Then I can custom-mat it for either a standard or custom frame, covering up the entire border.

r3g, have you printed both horizontal and vertical pictures? If not, just go try it (from a professional.) It will work out.

XaiLo
08-31-2007, 10:45 PM
Thanks Vich. :)