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View Full Version : Tokina 12-24 update



erichlund
08-17-2007, 06:49 PM
As some may recall, I recently purchased the Tokina 12-24 f4. While the image quality and handling of the lens is awesome, I did come across two things of note:

1. The lens will vignette with a normal polarizing filter. The following was taken with a B&W filter. I have not yet tried a "thin" polarizer.

http://eric-lund.smugmug.com/photos/183783003-M.jpg
Obviously, this will only occur when the lens is at its widest focal lengths, but it's something to keep in mind.

2. The lens will flare at the drop of a hat.

http://eric-lund.smugmug.com/photos/184970404-L.jpg
OK, I was pretty much asking for it. Actually, I'm less worried about the flare than the ghost just above the treeline.

Esoterra
08-17-2007, 08:58 PM
As some may recall, I recently purchased the Tokina 12-24 f4. While the image quality and handling of the lens is awesome, I did come across two things of note:

1. The lens will vignette with a normal polarizing filter. The following was taken with a B&W filter. I have not yet tried a "thin" polarizer.

http://eric-lund.smugmug.com/photos/183783003-M.jpg
Obviously, this will only occur when the lens is at its widest focal lengths, but it's something to keep in mind.

2. The lens will flare at the drop of a hat.

http://eric-lund.smugmug.com/photos/184970404-L.jpg
OK, I was pretty much asking for it. Actually, I'm less worried about the flare than the ghost just above the treeline.

Eric,

You definatley want to get a super thin polarizer. I tried the slimist Hoya that is made, but it vingnettes. I ended up going with the BW super thin polarizer. It cost me $105 and I get no vingnetting at all. Another issue you will run into is using GNDF's with the slim cokin P holder- you will get vignetting with that for sure. There is a way you can reverse the holder but it requires a little man handling and I dont want to break stuff! The flare, well you just get used to it. As you use your lens you will quickly pick up the hot angles for flaring. Congrats on your lens. It looks like you had a fun time using it on vacation.

Rooz
08-17-2007, 10:44 PM
i'm with chris on this one. i bought the superslim BW CPL and it appears to have much less vignetting than the hoya slim pro i used to have. on the downside, it is a bit of a mongrel to adjust and you can't use the lens cap. it comes with a push on lens cap when you buy the filter which isnt very secure.

Prospero
08-18-2007, 02:01 AM
Rooz, I still use a regular polarizing filter on my 10-20 but I can't really say that it causes much vignetting. I ran some tests when I got the filter, and the vignetting with filter does not seem any worse then the vignetting the 10-20 already has without any filter.

The flare is pretty bad at times, though. But most situations where there is flare the polarizing filter does very little anyway, so you might as well take it of.

Rooz
08-18-2007, 02:43 AM
Rooz, I still use a regular polarizing filter on my 10-20 but I can't really say that it causes much vignetting. I ran some tests when I got the filter, and the vignetting with filter does not seem any worse then the vignetting the 10-20 already has without any filter.

The flare is pretty bad at times, though. But most situations where there is flare the polarizing filter does very little anyway, so you might as well take it of.

i take your word for it, i really cant remember ! lol i've never really even seen seriously bad vignetting in any of my photos with any lens to be honest.

erichlund
08-18-2007, 09:16 AM
Of course, this photo had the exact same vignetting, in the upper and lower right corners. A slight crop and voila, no vignette:

http://eric-lund.smugmug.com/photos/183782755-M-1.jpg
BTW: That's blue sky in the upper right corner.

erichlund
08-18-2007, 09:52 AM
Here's an example where the flare is both a benefit and a curse. I love the way the flare creates the star effect around the sun, but the one diagonal that runs across the photo ruins the effect.

http://eric-lund.smugmug.com/photos/185134345-L.jpg

Here's a partial fix in NX: However, I think I'm going to have to back out some of the color control points and do the fix in Paint Shop Pro, where I have some tools not available in NX.

http://eric-lund.smugmug.com/photos/185138039-L.jpg

NX didn't do a very good job with the abherrations on the water, so I have a lot more to do to save this shot.

fionndruinne
08-18-2007, 11:21 AM
'Abherrations'... I like that typo. Alter it to 'abhorrations', and you've got a great monster for a role-playing-game.

coldrain
08-18-2007, 06:18 PM
The photos all do look a bit under exposed, look at the greens which are all more a dark muddles grey? I was just now wondering why I have no vignetting problem, till I realized that the 1.6x crop factor vs 1.5x crop factor just may make the difference there.

I do like the star effect at times too, but every bright light will do that, including street lights at night, which may at times be too much.

Btw, your sensor is in need of a dusting :D

Here is the 1st photo with +1 exposure in photoshop:

erichlund
08-19-2007, 01:30 AM
The photos all do look a bit under exposed, look at the greens which are all more a dark muddles grey? I was just now wondering why I have no vignetting problem, till I realized that the 1.6x crop factor vs 1.5x crop factor just may make the difference there.

I do like the star effect at times too, but every bright light will do that, including street lights at night, which may at times be too much.

Btw, your sensor is in need of a dusting :D

Here is the 1st photo with +1 exposure in photoshop:

Clearly, you have never been to the California Coastline if you are expecting green in July. :rolleyes: In the Pacific Northwest, yes. Southern California, no. Those dark muddles of grey are scrub brush that passes for vegetation in those parts. Not much green to be seen.

You might note a little more green in shots facing a little more south. I suspect that's just what little green there is trying to catch the sun.

And you are wrong about the exposure. You "modification" blows out the wash around the rocks and turns the sky entirely too blue. With that fog bank just off the coast, you really should not be surprised that the sky is a little steel grey, which is pretty common for the left coast. Ten minutes back prior on the road and we were completely in fog.

coldrain
08-19-2007, 02:09 AM
I am "completely wrong" then, Eric. But there was sun where you were, not fog... and the flowers ARE completely underexposed, and so are the rocks.
I can not tell what you did during RAW conversion either, I just can see that the main subjects are underexposed...

Rooz
08-19-2007, 02:51 AM
eric i dont know what its "supposed" to look like from an accuracy POV but imo the +1 worked pretty well.

e_dawg
08-19-2007, 10:20 AM
The problem is the dynamic range of the shot. The wash requires care not to overexpose, but the landscape is the opposite, tending towards underexposure. If you expose correctly for one, you sacrifice the other.

I might use + exposure compensation as well, but with an eye towards preserving the highlight detail in the wash with the help of curves. IMO, post-processing tonal adjustments is required for all shots with this kind of dynamic range.

No Control
08-21-2007, 12:07 PM
I agree the dynamic range in that shot is just too much.

But those wide angles are making my mouth water over that lens. No money at the moment though. :o

erichlund
08-22-2007, 12:27 AM
OK, you asked for it... Here's the photo we've been modifying, with saturation and contrast bumped by one step each in NX then converted to jpg. Now, of course, I could have taken the photo this way, because, these are just camera settings done in NX.

http://eric-lund.smugmug.com/photos/186622026-L.jpg

Some people seem to like this look. It's no where close to reality, but it does pop out at you. What you need to realize it that this photo was taken at about 1pm. There's no way you get this warm color at that time of day.

Of course, the advantage of using this method is it's simple and you don't blow out detail. You can still see the detail in the wash around the rocks. However, if I can actually find some time to really call my own, I'll try doing some work with curves to do something a little more subtle.