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View Full Version : Very annoying Capture NX ver 1.1 color profile issue



Kellie
07-06-2007, 11:56 AM
I have asked around about this and even called Nikon tech support. They were pleasant on the phone, but my question baffled them. They said they would have to look into it and get back to me, but it might not be until next week.

I recently updated from ver 1.0.1 to 1.1. This problem did not occur with the older version.

When I open a NEF, do my editing and save the file as a jpeg (with the sRGB profile that was set in camera), the color space/representation in the exif of Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, SmugMug, flickr, etc says uncalibrated. :confused: The picture also looks darker outside of NX. Using the same editing steps in ver 1.0.1, the files showed sRGB and looked exactly the same as in NX.

When I open that same jpeg file in Photoshop Elements 5.0 (the one saved in ver 1.1) it shows the exact same image as in NX and the file metadata says sRGB, but the camera settings metadata still says uncalibrated. I realize that PS will not read the in camera settings of an NEF file, but this is the file that has been saved as a jpeg so all of the in camera settings will have been applied to it. The other camera settings are correct (sharpness - normal, tone compensation - normal, WB- manual, etc.). So, the camera setting should say sRGB.

Now, when I do no furthere editing to the file in PSE and save it, the exif in Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, SmugMug, flickr, etc says sRGB, BUT the picture is still darker in those applications even though it was not dark in PSE.

I am so confused and annoyed! I have no way of reverting back to ver 1.0.1 so that this doesn't happen. I'm going to try to figure out how to post screen captures so that I can show you what I am trying to explain.

Has anyone else experienced this? I did see a post on another forum where someone had the same issue, but no one was able to explain it. The discussion ended up being a aRGB vs. sRGB and the OP's question was never answered. :rolleyes:

Kellie
07-06-2007, 12:45 PM
OK, here are a couple screen shots. The first is the jpeg in Capture NX. If you look at the lower left of the picture you can see that the profile is sRGB. In the next shot I highlighted where the color representation says uncalibrated. Also, the Windows Picture and Fax Viewer image is slightly darker than the Capture image (hard to tell with this picture - it is more pronounced with others).

XaiLo
07-06-2007, 01:05 PM
What other profile options are there? from what you are discribing I'm almost willing to bet not only do the colors look darker but they also look flat. If this is the case most likely what happened is that NX is mapping aRGB as sRGB. If there is an option to output as aRGB in NX do so then convert it to sRGB PSE. hth

Kellie
07-06-2007, 01:12 PM
There is the option to output as aRGB, but I didn't have to do that with the earlier version of NX which is why this is so confusing. I would rather not have to add the step of converting to sRGB in PSE. If I save the file with an sRGB profile in NX it should show that in the exif data in other applications, right? I just don't understand why it is saying uncalibrated.

XaiLo
07-06-2007, 01:22 PM
You are correct. I was only making an educated guess from what you were describing. The solution was only to get you by until you hear back from Nikon. Out of curiosity how come you can't just do a reinstall?

Kellie
07-06-2007, 01:32 PM
I heard from Nikon (via email) and they aren't getting it. :p The last response suggested I contact Microsoft. It has nothing to do with Microsoft - it's definitely an NX ver 1.1 bug. I described to them in detail exactly what is happening and explained that it didn't happen in ver 1.0.1, so we'll see what they say. I googled "NX 1.1 uncalibrated" and came up with a bunch of exif links on flickr that say uncalibrated when NX ver 1.1 was used.

I can't reinstall because I don't have the actual CD. I downloaded the trial and then bough the key online. I might ask Nikon to send me a CD or link to download the last version.

I will try your PSE suggestion in the meantime so that I can at least get the results I see in Capture. Thanks. :)

Rooz
07-06-2007, 01:34 PM
when you save the file, tin the save options dialogue does it have a tick in the box that says "embed ICC profile" ?

Kellie
07-06-2007, 01:37 PM
when you save the file, tin the save options dialogue does it have a tick in the box that says "embed ICC profile" ?

Yup. Should it not be checked?

Do you have ver 1.1? What do you files say if you view the exif outside of NX? I'm curious if anyone else is experiencing this.

Rooz
07-06-2007, 01:44 PM
ok, when opened with Adobe LR, Bibble and CS2 all show the colour profile. when opened with windows paint it says uncalibrated.

Rooz
07-06-2007, 01:48 PM
just looked on my flickr and smug mug and they all say sRGB aswell. sorry kell, i dont have PSE to do a test on that. i suppose more importantly, the images don;t look any different in any application.

Kellie
07-06-2007, 01:53 PM
Bleh. Well I don't really care if the exif states the correct profile, but having the photos look different outside of NX does bug me.

If you upload a file from NX to SmugMug without adding an extra step in PS, does it still say sRGB?

XaiLo
07-06-2007, 02:00 PM
I found an old link to Capture NX 1.0 hth Kellie

Link to Capture NX 1.0 (http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=14016&p_created=1151420849&p_sid=mixAgWbi&p_accessibility=0&p_lva=61&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX 3Jvd19jbnQ9NiZwX3Byb2RzPTQyLDI5OCZwX2NhdHM9MCZwX3B 2PTIuMjk4JnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZ WFyY2hfbmwmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=&p_topview=1)

Rooz
07-06-2007, 02:06 PM
Bleh. Well I don't really care if the exif states the correct profile, but having the photos look different outside of NX does bug me. If you upload a file from NX to SmugMug without adding an extra step in PS, does it still say sRGB?

NX -> smugmug -> sRGB
NX -> CS2 -> smugmug -> sRGB

have also just opened a NEF file in CS2, converted to jpeg and got the exact same problem. in all programs it says RGB but in MS Paint it says uncalibrated. and i got another curly one for ya. lol when i open the same files that show "uncalibrated" in MS Paint, in MS Office Picture Manager it says sRGB !!! :eek:

still no colour differences though. :confused:

DeadKenny
07-10-2007, 05:17 PM
Hi,

Spotted this from Google and thought I'd chip in here as I'm having the same problem.

I raised it over at Nikonians and then raised a support request with Nikon's online system. They've kind of confirmed it's a bug, or at least there's a bug in the colour profile stuff generally.

Here's the reply I got from them...


Thank you for your email,
This is related to other colour profile bugs that we are aware of, that for example cancel other changes that where made, or do not change the profile so that other applications can correctly read them. The bugs with the colour profile function should beresolved in the next update to NX.

Kind Regards

Nikon Europe Support
www.europe-nikon.com/support

Question is, when is the next update to NX?

I'm finding it really annoying as I edit away in NX and get my photos how I like them and then find it really depressing when I save as JPEGs to share on the web and they have the wrong (or no) profile applied.

Some have said, why not just shoot sRGB instead, but apart from my desire to edit with a wider space for printing purposes, I've tried sRGB images and saving them out as JPEG and the same problem.

I'm trying to find a work around but little success. I thought maybe the issue is just the tag in the EXIF is not specifying the profile, however Photoshop seems to read it okay. Exifer like Windows Explorer, shows it as uncalibrates but I can't see a way in Exifer to edit it. If the problem is the profile data isn't there then it may be more complicated.

Thing is I thought most browsers and Windows are unaware of colour profiles (or at least that's what people say), so if it was just the wrong tag then surely they'd ignore it and just render for sRGB, but the images are just way too dark. That suggests that NX is actually converting the wrong profile in the first place (but that doesn't explain why sRGB images saved without conversion are also wrong).

K1W1
07-10-2007, 05:33 PM
Question is, when is the next update to NX?

Answer - when Nikon deign to release it. :):)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I'm not a Capture NX user but from what I see it does not seem to be living up to the hype that surrounded it when it was released. I've seen lots of posts in places lately referring to it as "buggy" or similar. I Know that it has some really nice features but is it really "buggy"?

DeadKenny
07-10-2007, 05:52 PM
"Quirky" I'd say :D

This is the first real 'bug' I've come across. Though it was also present in Capture 4 (which never did profiles properly anyway). NX 1.0 fixed it, and 1.1 broke it again (worse than before).

The interface is a little odd to use, but I get used to it and there are certain huge benefits.

1. For what I need it dispenses with the need for Photoshop. Massive cost saving.

2. It's the only app that reads NEFs properly and applies in-camera settings properly. Other raw readers just read the raw data and you have to dial in the settings yourself.

3. Stores edits in the NEF. No sidecars and other stuff. I just like to keep everything together and it's nice and portable.

4. Control points!! Wow, these really are amazing.


So long as it does this kind of stuff and what I see on the screen is what I print (near enough) and what others see when I stick photos on the web, then it does the job for me.

NX is still an early version. Hopefully when they get to version 2 all the little niggles will be sorted. But they better sort out colour profile stuff though quick as that's one area that's the most frustrating and really puts you off even taking any photos if the results are not what you wanted.

jcon
07-10-2007, 10:41 PM
Answer - when Nikon deign to release it. :):)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I'm not a Capture NX user but from what I see it does not seem to be living up to the hype that surrounded it when it was released. I've seen lots of posts in places lately referring to it as "buggy" or similar. I Know that it has some really nice features but is it really "buggy"?

I am very pleased with the final results NX provides, but it is a "buggy" program. The very first release(which should have been a beta) would crash alot! Sometimes it wouldnt even work at all, and had problems with the .NET Framework. If you recall I posted this issue way back when it happened, and Nikon admitted the problem a few weeks later. Its a great program, but does need some holes plugged. The sad thing is people pay $150 for this program and end up with major headaches.


DeadKenny, Just a friendly suggestion, I wouldnt go posting exact quotes you recieve from Nikon Support, if you read the bottom of the email responses, it states you cannot share that info with anyone or quote it. Just be careful;)

Rooz
07-11-2007, 06:39 AM
thankfully i don;t have a colour profile problem. it must be cos i don;t use those programs people are fiding the bugs happen with. i didn;t see any of the hype but i disagree that it doesn;t live up to expectations. it is by far the best editing software around imo from a results POV.

the problem with NX is that its slow.

Kellie
07-11-2007, 08:00 AM
"Quirky" I'd say :D

2. It's the only app that reads NEFs properly and applies in-camera settings properly. Other raw readers just read the raw data and you have to dial in the settings yourself.

4. Control points!! Wow, these really are amazing.





These are the two reasons I will continue to use Capture NX over any other program. I have tried trials of the other programs and don't like having to take the time to get the raw files to look the way they would with the in camera settings applied. My photography is getting better and most of the time the in camera settings are actually correct. I realize I could shoot jpeg, but for those times when exposure, WB, etc. are a little off I really like having to ability to fix it without degrading the file.

I think I have the darkness issue worked out, but never received a definitive answer from Nikon regarding the color profile bug (they didn't admit to me that it is a bug). I think I will call again today and see if I can get them to tell me the same thing they told you.

Thanks for popping in and explaining your situation, DeadKenny!

DeadKenny
07-12-2007, 01:49 PM
DeadKenny, Just a friendly suggestion, I wouldnt go posting exact quotes you recieve from Nikon Support, if you read the bottom of the email responses, it states you cannot share that info with anyone or quote it. Just be careful;)
It didn't say anything like that in my email, but yeah I'd normally be careful. This was fairly harmless answer though and I did edit out the name of the support person:D



the problem with NX is that its slow.
Memory has generally solved this for me. 1Gb is adequate if you only open one image at a time and don't have other applications open. My PC is pretty antique too. Big thing for me is the thumbnail browser is very fast compared to Capture 4 or using Windows Explorer. Though it does fill the disc with cache files!


Thanks for popping in and explaining your situation, DeadKenny!
I better check out the rest of the forum now :D

tcadwall
07-12-2007, 04:35 PM
2. It's the only app that reads NEFs properly and applies in-camera settings properly. Other raw readers just read the raw data and you have to dial in the settings yourself.
Don't think so. My raw editor of choice can detect camera settings, as well as lens / body pairing for distortion corrections... And it isn't CaptureNX


3. Stores edits in the NEF. No sidecars and other stuff. I just like to keep everything together and it's nice and portable.
I wouldn't want it that way. Keep the files together, or keep them in separate directories if you want, but since I use crop, b/w, noise removal, other effects, in my raw editor, I am glad that I can have several different VERSIONS of edits on the same file.

For instance, I can have:
Work Queue 1 setup for cropping all images that are added to 8x10
Work Queue 2 setup for cropping all images to 5x7
Work Queue 3 setup for B/W conversions...

Etc... Naming the Queues more appropriately to what they are of course... All I have to do is add a file to a queue and make edits in the work Queue. All Queues just hold a reference to the raw image, and all edits are stored in a separate file.... So I can output the same file to 20 different formats if I wanted to, and go back and make changes to each one individually...

Kellie
07-12-2007, 05:53 PM
Don't think so. My raw editor of choice can detect camera settings, as well as lens / body pairing for distortion corrections... And it isn't CaptureNX



Does it render the photo with those settings applied? If so, I'm going to give Bibble another shot! :D

Kellie
07-13-2007, 11:01 AM
I just downloaded Bibble Pro. It does render the file with the in camera settings and it is SO much faster than NX. I only played with one photo, but I really like it so far. I love that all I have to do is hover over an option in the drop down menu and it shows the changes immediately. The plug-ins are very cool and fill lighting works as well as Nikon's D Lighting. There aren't control points, but I haven't used those in NX anyway. I usually do a defog (USM 14/40/0) in the beginning of the editing process and was worried because Bibble doesn't have USM and I would rather not have to edit further in PSE5 if I can avoid it. But the "Perfectly Clear" option seems to give the same results as a defog USM.

I am having the same darkness issue as I did with NX. The photo is darker in Windows Picture and Fax Viewer and smugmug than it is in Bibble. It also isn't showing the color space in the exif of smugmug. :confused:

DeadKenny
07-13-2007, 12:55 PM
Don't think so. My raw editor of choice can detect camera settings, as well as lens / body pairing for distortion corrections... And it isn't CaptureNX
As far as I know there's nothing other than NX that reads and properly renders everything. I'm not sure what they don't read but there are some proprietary details, hence the battle Adobe had with Nikon I think.

If things have changed that's another matter but it's the first I've heard of it.

Good article on third-party converters here: http://www.nikonians.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=read_count&om=16777&forum=DCForumID36

Also NX is the only app that will read existing edits in NEF files so I'm committed now :D


I wouldn't want it that way. Keep the files together, or keep them in separate directories if you want, but since I use crop, b/w, noise removal, other effects, in my raw editor, I am glad that I can have several different VERSIONS of edits on the same file.

For instance, I can have:
Work Queue 1 setup for cropping all images that are added to 8x10
Work Queue 2 setup for cropping all images to 5x7
Work Queue 3 setup for B/W conversions...

Etc... Naming the Queues more appropriately to what they are of course... All I have to do is add a file to a queue and make edits in the work Queue. All Queues just hold a reference to the raw image, and all edits are stored in a separate file.... So I can output the same file to 20 different formats if I wanted to, and go back and make changes to each one individually...
Easy to do in NX and with NEF files. For a start edits in NEFs can be versioned, but also it's easy to do work queues by creating setting files for each output and batch process off the original NEF. Settings can be independent of each image too (e.g. a setting could be 'crop to 8x10' and can be applied to all images, but only one setting file is required).

i.e.

I do all my base edits to the NEF and this is my master version when I'm happy, saved. Then to do crops, conversions for web, and whatever else I just run batch jobs with relevant settings that just append and then save as another file.

Obviously I don't save back the additional edits to the NEF (though it's possible to do). However all the base edits get saved to the original to keep them in one place and easy to manage.

Revert to the original before all the edits?... easy, the original is still there untouched in the NEF. The edits are just appended to the NEF version history and you just turn them off (or potentially open the NEF in another RAW editor that doesn't read NX edits).

Personal choice though. Everyone has their own way of working. This works well for me.