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EricJames
06-06-2007, 04:57 PM
Budget
$1000 preferably (with a decent lense)
Willing to go up to $1200 (max)

Size
Unimportant

Features
Preferably above 6MP
On a scale of 1-10, image quality is of a 9 importance
The point of buying a SLR is for manual controls

General Usage

The camera will be used for art, scenery, parties, memories, and developing my SLR skills

I probably won't be making large prints, but I'm sure most if not all DSLRs can handle that

I will most likely be shooting indoors about 1/4 of the time, so image stabilization is a plus, as lenses with IS are a bit pricey

Action photos will be somewhat rare

Miscellaneous

Brand doesn't matter to me as long as the lense selection is decent.

The DSLRs that have interested me so far are the Olympus EVOLT E-510, Nikon D40x (has no dust filtering or IS), and the Canon Rebel XTi. I'm not limited to these models, though -- they just seemed to be the most popular

Image stabilization.

Tom_N
06-06-2007, 05:37 PM
I'd suggest the Nikon D80 over the Nikon D40X -- the D80 is a bit heavier and more expensive, but it has a built-in autofocus motor. Some Nikon and third-party autofocus lenses rely on having that motor.

If you buy from a place like B&H Photo Video, the D80 kit might even squeeze into the upper end of your budget.

Rooz
06-06-2007, 06:35 PM
The DSLRs that have interested me so far are the Olympus EVOLT E-510, Nikon D40x (has no dust filtering or IS), and the Canon Rebel XTi.

the xti is the pick of those quite comfortabley. the equivalent nikon to the xti is the d80 which is a bit pricier than the xti but should fall just under the $1200 mark. the d40x is more a competitior to the rebel xt with more megapixels. there is also the d40 to consider which is cheap for dslr but there are some restrictions in AF lens choices.

keep in mind that both canon and nikon have lens mounted IS as opposed to in-body IS. other models to consider are the pentax k10d and the sony alpha, both of which have in body IS so any lens you mount on them will effectively be an IS lens whereas with nikon/ canon you must buy IS/ VR lens' which are generally more expensive.

if lens selection is important i'm not sure the olympus is a good choice. haven;t seen alot of 3rd party lens manufacturers make mounts of the oly, but i could be wrong.

DonSchap
06-06-2007, 06:49 PM
If you are just sarting out, strapped for cash and need a decent rig ... SONY A100.

Do a web search and find out why. :D or click this link

SONY DSLR FORUMS (http://www.dcresource.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=47)

and read on ...

AlexMonro
06-07-2007, 02:20 AM
if lens selection is important i'm not sure the olympus is a good choice. haven;t seen alot of 3rd party lens manufacturers make mounts of the oly, but i could be wrong.

I think Sigma now make SOME of their lenses in 4/3 mount for the Olympus, but overall, your choice will be more limited than with Canon or Nikon. However, if you really want in-body IS, C&N are ruled out anyway (though in lens IS is probably technically slightly better at long focal lengths).

The Pentax models (or equivalent Samsung, they're very similar) are very easy to use with old film lenses, so that gives some more choices, and the K10D / GX10 have pro level weather sealing, as well as in-body IS and anti-dust.

The most important thing is to chose a camera that feels right for you. Get along to a camera shop and try out as many models as possible, and see how easily the controls come to hand and how things look through the viewfinder.

EricJames
06-07-2007, 04:25 AM
I'm now really considering the D80. I was wondering if the kit lens would do, as I can't really buy any decent lenses with the current budget I have.

Nikon D80 Digital Camera W/18-55mm Lens Kit $998
Body Only $879

My question is, $119 is really cheap for a lense -- will the kit lense take good photos while still helping me learn to shoot with my camera? I'm thinking by Christmas or next year this time, I'll buy a few great lenses.

Otherwise I'll need to buy a cheap DSLR so I can`afford a decent lense! Anyone have any thoughts.

Rooz
06-07-2007, 04:39 AM
keep in mind that those lens are only that price as part of a kit. if you were to buy them seperately they are more expensive.

there are 3 nikon kit lens.

18-55
18-70
18-135

some basic reviews and resolution charts can be found here:
http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/index.html

all are very good starting lens and offer the best image quality kit lens' on the market bar none. general consesus is that the 18-70 is the pick of the bunch but personally i prefer the sharpness of the 18-135.

Riley
06-07-2007, 09:48 AM
olympus uses the 4/3 mount
fairly complete lens list now for 4/3 mount

so Olympus, Leica D, Sigma
http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/oly-e/lenses.html

Olympus is probably #3 for lens quality behind Leica (M&R) and Zeiss

i would wait for a decent review of the 510 to see how it compares
it does seem to have a good set of features, but wont be a cheap option

EricJames
06-07-2007, 11:50 AM
Olympus EVOLT E-510 Digital Camera w/ 14-42mm & 40-150mm Lens Kit
Just under $1000 - So the body isn't that expensive compared to the D80.

Are you implying that the Olympus lenses are the more expensive route?


Edit:
What about this,
D80 Body only . . . . . $886.00

Nikon 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED IF AF-S DX VR Zoom Nikkor Lens . . . . $229.99


subtotal = $1,115.99

coldrain
06-07-2007, 03:05 PM
You really dont only want a 55-200mm lens...

EricJames
06-07-2007, 05:55 PM
I was just looking for VR, I guess . . . Might you suggest a decent affordable lense, cold -- or am I just better off with the kit?

fionndruinne
06-07-2007, 09:17 PM
50mm f/1.8 Nikkor for a low-light, wide-aperture and all-around sharp and excellent prime lens (for $100!). That, the 55-200mm and the kit lens (18-55mm is the most affordable), and you could have a good selection covering a broad focal range, for a nice price (until you wanted to upgrade the quality of especially your wide-angle range, where there are some good options also).

jcon
06-07-2007, 10:05 PM
With your budget I dont see why everyone is suggesting such an expensive body. I would sugest get a D50(still one of the best in its class). You could find it fairly cheap but make sure you buy from a safe dealer. I havent checked lately but last time I looked it was going for the same price as a D40 body. That way you will have alot more money to spend on decent glass. The glass is much more important than the body.

My suggestion would be a Nikon D50, Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 and an SB-600 or SB-800 flash. That would be a very good starting point.

When you do eventually get a tele lens, I would suggest save for the Nikon 70-300mm VR as apposed to the 55-200mm.

As Coldrain mentioned, you dont want a tele lens as your main lens, as it wont be nearly wide enough.

Rooz
06-07-2007, 11:06 PM
Olympus EVOLT E-510 Digital Camera w/ 14-42mm & 40-150mm Lens Kit. Just under $1000 - So the body isn't that expensive compared to the D80.

Are you implying that the Olympus lenses are the more expensive route?

Edit:
What about this,
D80 Body only . . . . . $886.00

Nikon 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED IF AF-S DX VR Zoom Nikkor Lens . . . . $229.99

subtotal = $1,115.99

no, as CR suggests that wont work. you cant have a zoom lens as your standard lens. it needs to start at around 24mm or idealy, 18mm.

stick to the kit lens if you go nikon, you can always buy nicer glass at xmas like you originally said. if you go canon you could look into the sigma 18-50mmf2.8. or if you really want IS at a cheap entry price, then look at the pentax and sony which have inbody IS.

the oly has a smaller sensor, lesser ISO performance, harder to get lens'. i dunno, it doesn't appeal to me...i'm sure oly owners will disagree.

Riley
06-07-2007, 11:40 PM
no, as CR suggests that wont work. you cant have a zoom lens as your standard lens. it needs to start at around 24mm or idealy, 18mm.

stick to the kit lens if you go nikon, you can always buy nicer glass at xmas like you originally said. if you go canon you could look into the sigma 18-50mmf2.8. or if you really want IS at a cheap entry price, then look at the pentax and sony which have inbody IS.

the oly has a smaller sensor, lesser ISO performance, harder to get lens'. i dunno, it doesn't appeal to me...i'm sure oly owners will disagree.

Olympus 510/410
on noise, thats rubbish, try it for yourself and download some review images
Open PhotoShop, Noise Ninja, click reset/ click Profile-Image/read & record noise index
1D MkIII iso6400 NR? 52
1D MkIII iso3200 NR? 35
1D MkIII iso1600 NR? 28
1D MkIII iso100 NR? 13

5D iso1600 NR? 34
5D iso800 NR? 30

E-410 iso1600 NR OFF 35
E-410 iso1600 NR NORMAL 21
E-410 iso800 NR? 17

D40 iso1600 NR? 39
D40 iso800 NR? 31

XTi iso1600 NR? 42
XTi iso800 NR? 29

lenses are probably harder to find unless you have ebay ;)

fionndruinne
06-07-2007, 11:57 PM
From what I've seen, 4/3 lenses for Olympus are rather pricey and scarcer than other brands. Not enough so to be a huge hassle, but it is a point.

Riley
06-08-2007, 12:37 AM
yeah i think they are a tad pricey, but they go a bit further with quality, they dont offer much in the way of cheaper/junk lenses, Leica 4/3 the same. If you are to compare with the quality end of C&N there isnt a whole lot of difference i think, but yes less choices and no legacy glass.

11-22mm and a 50-200 pretty well covers you from 22mm to 400mm. Coming soon for the release of P1/E3 will be the 12-60mm and a faster version of 50-200mm, thats 24mm-400mm, both having the same AF motors as Canon use. Here's lens list with US pricing. So one of the few advantages is there are numerically less lenses to buy. Kit lenses are better too, the twin lens kit isnt a terrible deal, theyre just a bit slow in my view.

http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/oly-e/lenses.html

http://www.4-3system.com/modules/lenses/

EricJames
06-08-2007, 05:21 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on the K10D? I read the reviews and seems like it's a great buy as long as you're not shooting in JPEG, and I don't see why I wouldn't be shooting in RAW.

smartguy26
06-08-2007, 05:09 PM
ive been looking into the k10d because im super indecisive about cameras and i check out all the possibilities.
the k10d looks great to me too, and the jpeg quality can be fixed a bit by tweaking in-camera settings (some say after the tweaks, the jpegs look decent/pretty good) the only other caveat ive heard about the k10d is the auto white balance under incandescent lighting is pretty bad, but if you dont mind taking 2 seconds to switch to the incandescent preset, you'll be fine.

big pluses for me: water proof, in-camera IS, loads of interesting features, and compatible with every pentax lens

pluses outweigh the positives if you ask me
but its always good to go into a store and check it out, or ask an actual owner of a k10d

EricJames
06-08-2007, 07:15 PM
Alright! I've narrowed it down to:

Pentax K10D (body only) - $750
http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-10-2MP-Digital-Camera-Reduction/dp/B000IHN8AO/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/002-6528838-4021636?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1181355141&sr=8-2

igma 18-50mm F/2.8 EX DC - $299
http://www.amazon.com/Sigma-18-50mm-Pentax-Digital-Cameras/dp/B0002P19PI/ref=sr_1_20/002-6528838-4021636?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1181355182&sr=1-20

Also, anyone know if the SR will work with a non-Pentax lens?
Any suggestions or concerns before I make 'the plunge'? :cool:

Rooz
06-08-2007, 08:48 PM
if you want the pentax thats a good choice of lens. all mounted lens' are compatible with SR.

coldrain
06-09-2007, 12:55 AM
Every camera can stand light rain. The weather sealing only has an advantage in heavy rain or a fine sand storm. Are you ever going to be out in those conditions making photos? If not, the weather sealing is just a marketing gimmick, since people themselves are "not weather sealed". Even more so if you do not have weather sealed lenses.

The only true weather sealed lenses I know of atthe moment are some Canon L series lenses, which I am pretty sure do not fit on a Pentax K10D.

So, do not choose that camera for that weather sealing.

About that 18-50 f2.8 EX DC lens, I would choose the more expensive improved version, the Sigma 18-50 f2.8 EX DC Macro. It has improved optics, which are more than worth the price. It also will allow you to get closer to subjects when wanted (that is why they stuck "macro" to its name).

EricJames
06-09-2007, 01:28 AM
Cold--Is that expensive lense a good lense to use as my everyday lense? Keep in mind my budget is limited and I won't be buying anymore lenses for an extended period of time.

I'm new to the SLR land, so I'm not familiar with lenses. Shouldn't I have a everyday shooting lense, a Macro, and a telephoto lense? (well, different lenses to aim for?)

I'm not really looking at the K10D for the weather-proof construction (I suppose it doesn't hurt, though)

Riley
06-09-2007, 02:55 AM
Every camera can stand light rain. The weather sealing only has an advantage in heavy rain or a fine sand storm. Are you ever going to be out in those conditions making photos? If not, the weather sealing is just a marketing gimmick, since people themselves are "not weather sealed". Even more so if you do not have weather sealed lenses.

The only true weather sealed lenses I know of atthe moment are some Canon L series lenses, which I am pretty sure do not fit on a Pentax K10D.

So, do not choose that camera for that weather sealing.

Weather sealing gives some guarantee that your camera has more insurance against the evils of dust moisture and rain, it is not simply a matter of photographing in actual raining conditions.

While you can get away without weather sealed bodies in rain, it really is pretty foolish, it also marks if a camera is truly intended to pro use or not.

Rooz
06-09-2007, 05:11 AM
Cold--Is that expensive lense a good lense to use as my everyday lense? Keep in mind my budget is limited and I won't be buying anymore lenses for an extended period of time.

yes. it is intended as a walkaround, everyday lens. arguabley the best 3rd party lens around for that purpose.

kgosden
06-09-2007, 08:31 AM
The only true weather sealed lenses I know of atthe moment are some Canon L series lenses, which I am pretty sure do not fit on a Pentax K10D.

Actually all the Olympus high grade AND super high grade lenses are weather sealed.

EricJames
06-09-2007, 09:17 AM
http://shopproducts.howstuffworks.com/Sigma-18-50mm-f-2-8-EX-DC-for-Pentax-Digital-SLR/SF-1/PID-22595345

Is that the same lens? I can't find a reliable online store that sells it.