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View Full Version : Help me decide between D50 and D70s kits



Sandy Bloom
02-07-2006, 12:06 PM
I know the D70s kit lens is superior to the D50 kit lens. I wonder if the better D70s body and better lens will result in noticeably better photos than the D50 kit. The difference between the two is 500 bucks.

Any big reason(s) to recommend one over the other? Is the difference between the two really worth 500 dollars? I will use the camera for a variety of things, including available light, action photography, family, portait, landscape, and macro.

I did notice that the D7os felt a little more comfortable in my hand.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Sandy

derekinla
02-07-2006, 01:03 PM
I recently purchased a D50 from Beach Camera (my first dSLR) and I have not regretted the decision. My first SLR was a Canon EOS Elan IIe which was a beautiful camera and I initially wanted to stick with Canon. Therefore my leading candidates for a dSLR included the EOS 350XT, the D70, and the D50. After reading numerous reviews, it seems that for most amateurs and enthusiasts, you will get great results with any of the Nikon/Canon dSLR's. (I am not as familiar with Olympus/Pentax/Fuji so I can't comment) Decisions should come down to budget, feel of the camera, and specific features that appeal to your specific needs. I chose the D50 as it is slightly more compact than the D70, (although not as small as the Canon), and produces great results out of the box with the kit lens (18-55mm). I crossed off the Canon after playing with it in the stores. Although the ergonomics/fit and finish of my old Elan IIe were fantastic, the plastics and hand grip of the XT didn't feel as good in my hand. For around $600 the D50 w/ the 18-55m kit lens offers a terrific value and exceptional performance which is hard to beat. Good Luck and keep us posted! :)

coldrain
02-07-2006, 03:21 PM
The D70s is a big bigger and heavier, it also is the oldest of the two. The D50 gives the nicest results out of camera with JPEG. I am not sure if that advantage is as big when you use RAW, but for RAW you have to factor in an extra 100$ (or more, depending in what country you live) for Nikon's excellent Nikon Capture 4.

The D70s processes the images a bit more in-camera, and that can lead to artifacts (it can, does not mean it will show up in most photos). It has a lighted info display, a depth of field contol button (closes aperture so you can see the resulting depth of field through the lens), more AF points, more white balance options, more advanced falsh options (for when you use more than 1 flash light).

The d70s's kit lens may be superior in build quality, but maybe not in optical performance... it vignets rather extreme at 18mm, and distortion (barrel and pincushion) are quite evident. The 18-55 D50 kit lens is surprisingly capabale, even though its build quality is less. It is a nice contrasty lens.

The D50 has a bit better image quality, USB 2.0 instead of the D70s's USB 1.1, and its more compact.

It is up to you to choose which one you prefer, both are very nice cameras. The D50 will leave you with more financial room for nice lenses.

Sandy Bloom
02-08-2006, 06:50 AM
Thanks both of you for your excellent responses. Unless I learn of some other overwhelming reasons, I will likely go with the D50 and save a bunch of money.

If I had the dough to spare, I would buy the D200 without much question, with the higher megapixel count, fps, and aperture compatibility with older Nikon lenses etc. But, the D50 sounds like a good compromise, As the song goes, "You can't always get what you want....." But then, there is always something else, like the D5. I certainly don't drive a Caddy, so I'm accustomed to compromises as is most of the world.

The one last major concern I have is if the 6.1 megapixels are enough for me. I won't blow anything up larger than 11 x 14, even that will be rare. But I like to enlarge and crop details at times, and I hope the pixel count will sustain me for a few years. (buyer's remorse- After all, sharpness is one thing a camera needs to do well). I know technology advances, and I don't need to be up with the latest of anything (I still run Windows 2000), but for my cropping interests that is my concern. My wife especially hopes this camera will be a long term keeper.

I look forward to any comments on this you folks would have. I am trying the D50 out at home now as Walmart has a liberal return policy. Somehow, I can't help wondering if 8 or 10 megapixels would make a significant difference in my photos.

Best,

Sandy

murrays
02-08-2006, 07:47 AM
Have a look at this article: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm

Basically, doubling the number of pixels on a CCD only increases effective print length and width by 41% given the same pixels/inch.

Going from 6 to 8 mp would increase the effective print size by 15% (square root of 8/6).

Bottom line, 6.1 mp should serve you well for many years to come.

-murray

Sandy Bloom
02-08-2006, 08:10 AM
Have a look at this article: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm

Basically, doubling the number of pixels on a CCD only increases effective print length and width by 41% given the same pixels/inch.

Going from 6 to 8 mp would increase the effective print size by 15% (square root of 8/6).

Bottom line, 6.1 mp should serve you well for many years to come.

-murray

This post is a stunning revelation for me. Thank you, Murray. I am more comfortable than ever with my decision to go D50. At age 62, I am still amazed at the wealth of knowledge that exists in cyberspace.

Very grateful,

Sandy

derekinla
02-08-2006, 08:21 AM
The Nikon D50 which is a 6MP camera produces 3008 x 2000 pixels
The Canon 350 XT which is an 8MP camera prodcues 3456 x 2304 pixels
The Nikon D200 which is 10 MP produces 3,872 x 2,592 pixel images

Do note that when you go from a 6 to 8 to 10 megapixels, you are not getting a linear increase in pixel counts. For example, going from 6 to 8 MP, you gain a 15% increase in pixel count in each linear dimension. Going from 6MP to 10, you gain a 29% increase in pixel count in each linear dimension. If those differences are important, than it may be worth it to get the extra pixel count to play with - especially if you are planning to do alot of cropping. Of course going from a 6 MP D50 at $600 to a D200 at $2000 comes at a 233% premium :D

Sandy Bloom
02-08-2006, 11:20 AM
Now that I decided on the D50 kit, what do you folks think of the 55 to 200 zoom nikon lens (G lens-not true ED) that comes with the nikon D50 2 lens kit? Lens retails at $270.00 alone. The 70 to 300 ED Nikon lens alone retails locally at $350.00. Circuit City has the two lens D50 kit for $855.00 plus tax.
Thanks for all your help.

Sandy

coldrain
02-08-2006, 03:34 PM
The 55-200mm is fine at 55mm, but at 200mm things are not great. You may want to consider the Sigma 70-300 APO DG, it betters the Nikon 70-300, costs less, and offers a decent 1:2 macro mode.

Sandy Bloom
02-09-2006, 02:49 PM
Thanks.

What do you folks think of the Tamron 75 to 300 4-5.6 zoom Tele Macro (1:3.9)? (The lower price alone makes me think it it not as good as the Sigma).

Also, any thoughts about the SanDisk Ultra II sd card versus the regular speed SanDisk sd card, as it relates to the D50? Is it worth the price difference?

Many thanks,
Sandy

D70FAN
02-09-2006, 03:37 PM
Thanks.

What do you folks think of the Tamron 75 to 300 4-5.6 zoom Tele Macro (1:3.9)? (The lower price alone makes me think it it not as good as the Sigma).

Also, any thoughts about the SanDisk Ultra II sd card versus the regular speed SanDisk sd card, as it relates to the D50? Is it worth the price difference?

Many thanks,
Sandy

Forget the Tamron 75-300, and take coldrains advice on the Sigma.

Get the Ultra II. The D50 can use it when you decide to shoot in continuous mode, and downloads from the camera or a USB2.0HS card reader (I recommend the latter) will be quicker as well.

pcapazzi
02-10-2006, 02:42 PM
I'm a beginner and was wondering if it's worth it to pull for the D70s or even the D200. All of these quesitons and answers are helping me decide on the D50 just to get into the game.

I have a quesiton... I searched for the Sigma 70-300 and found a 2 lens Sigma kit... both the 70-300 and 28-80... do you think this would be a good combination with the D50 (body only)?

Jason25
02-10-2006, 04:51 PM
I'm a beginner and was wondering if it's worth it to pull for the D70s or even the D200. All of these quesitons and answers are helping me decide on the D50 just to get into the game.

I have a quesiton... I searched for the Sigma 70-300 and found a 2 lens Sigma kit... both the 70-300 and 28-80... do you think this would be a good combination with the D50 (body only)?
If you really need the extra features on the D70 or D200, have at it. The D50 does perfectly fine if you don't *need* them.

As for the lenses, I wouldn't do it. 28-80 isn't a good focal range (not enough of a wide end) for a DSLR unless you have a 2.8 lens in that range and like doing portraits. 28-80 translates to 42-120 on a Nikon DSLR. I plan to dump my 28-80 as soon as I can (mine was the same price as body only, so why not). I would go for the 18-55 or even better, the 18-70 lens. The 70-300 is the cheapo version, as opposed to the well-liked APO DG Macro version (though still not expensive), which is known to produce better results than the rest in its class.

Sandy Bloom
02-14-2006, 03:41 PM
[QUOTE=George Riehm]Forget the Tamron 75-300, and take coldrains advice on the Sigma.

I was just about to buy this lens on Coldrain's advice, but then I read and heard folks say the AF was slow at higher zoom lengths. My concern: Does this mean that the Sigma APO zoom will not work well for sports and other situations where I want to stop fast action?

Regards,

Sandy

D70FAN
02-14-2006, 08:02 PM
[QUOTE=George Riehm]Forget the Tamron 75-300, and take coldrains advice on the Sigma.

I was just about to buy this lens on Coldrain's advice, but then I read and heard folks say the AF was slow at higher zoom lengths. My concern: Does this mean that the Sigma APO zoom will not work well for sports and other situations where I want to stop fast action?

Regards,

Sandy

If you are shooting sports in daylight the Sigma 70-300 will work fine. To be honest we are just choosing the lesser of evils with the Sigma 70-300 APO DG. It's a consumer lens that can produce good daylight images from about 70-250, but too slow for indoor sports. For sports (in general) you might want to look at the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8. Beyond that it can get really expensive.

Sandy Bloom
02-15-2006, 08:50 AM
It is up to you to choose which one you prefer, both are very nice cameras. The D50 will leave you with more financial room for nice lenses.

I ordered the D50 one lens kit from "Dbuys" at $589.00 complete. They had the lowest price, five stars, and many positive reviews. On the phone, I found them to be rather rude when I asked lots of questions, including what was in the kit, whether this was not a gray market item, full USA Nikon warranty, etc.

So, my question is, how can I tell if this is the real McCoy or a gray market item? When I will receive it in a few days, I will have ten days to return it. Do you guys have any experience with this outfit?

Thanks,

Sandy

Ray Schnoor
02-15-2006, 08:56 AM
So, my question is, how can I tell if this is the real McCoy or a gray market item? When I will receive it in a few days, I will have ten days to return it. Do you guys have any experience with this outfit?
There should be a US warranty in the box. If it is not there, it is probably gray market.

Ray.

Sandy Bloom
02-15-2006, 11:58 AM
[QUOTE=Sandy Bloom]

If you are shooting sports in daylight the Sigma 70-300 will work fine. To be honest we are just choosing the lesser of evils with the Sigma 70-300 APO DG. It's a consumer lens that can produce good daylight images from about 70-250, but too slow for indoor sports. For sports (in general) you might want to look at the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8. Beyond that it can get really expensive.

I spoke to Sigma on the phone about the slow autofocus of the 70-300 APO lens. The gal suggested the 28-300mm F3.5-6.3 DG Macro (non APO). There are actually two of these, one says just DG and has "New" next to it on sigma USA's Home Page.

Any opinion on these lenses compared to the 70 - 300 APO lens I've been obsessing about? The price of the two lenses above seem to range from 250 to 300 bucks. I'd be happy to pay this price for a better lens.

Thanks again,

Sandy

Sandy Bloom
02-15-2006, 12:28 PM
[]

I spoke to Sigma on the phone about the slow autofocus of the 70-300 APO lens. The gal suggested the 28-300mm F3.5-6.3 DG Macro (non APO). There are actually two of these, one says just DG and has "New" next to it on sigma USA's Home Page.

Any opinion on these lenses compared to the 70 - 300 APO lens I've been obsessing about? The price of the two lenses above seem to range from 250 to 300 bucks. I'd be happy to pay this price for a better lens.

Thanks again,

Sandy

Actually, I found out that the 28-300 Sigma DG Macro has a 1/4 life size macro versus the 1/2 life size macro of the 70-300 APO Sigma Macro. B&H Price of the 28-300 is 259.00, and 199.00 for the APO. Also, regarding people complaining about the slow autofocus of the Sigma 70-300 APO, B&H says it is in nanoseconds, not the 3 to 4 secs I have heard folks say. I'd really appreciate any opinions you guys have here. Thanks again,

Sandy

D70FAN
02-15-2006, 02:30 PM
[QUOTE=Sandy Bloom][]

I spoke to Sigma on the phone about the slow autofocus of the 70-300 APO lens. The gal suggested the 28-300mm F3.5-6.3 DG Macro (non APO). There are actually two of these, one says just DG and has "New" next to it on sigma USA's Home Page.

Any opinion on these lenses compared to the 70 - 300 APO lens I've been obsessing about? The price of the two lenses above seem to range from 250 to 300 bucks. I'd be happy to pay this price for a better lens.

Thanks again,

Sandy



Actually, I found out that the 28-300 Sigma DG Macro has a 1/4 life size macro versus the 1/2 life size macro of the 70-300 APO Sigma Macro. B&H Price of the 28-300 is 259.00, and 199.00 for the APO. Also, regarding people complaining about the slow autofocus of the Sigma 70-300 APO, B&H says it is in nanoseconds, not the 3 to 4 secs I have heard folks say. I'd really appreciate any opinions you guys have here. Thanks again,

Sandy

Of all the lenses Sigma makes, and they do make some good ones, I believe that the 28-300 (new or old) is the absolute worst. A true waste of glass and plastic. I can barely stand to look at the MTF chart.

If you want that 300mm top end, at a reasonable price, then stay with the 70-300 APO DG Macro. For under $200 it's as good as you are likely to find. Even under $400.

In closing there is no camera or lens that I know of that can focus in nanoseconds, unless they are converting 200 milliseconds (0.2 seconds) to 20,000,000 nanoseconds just to sound fast. By the same token 3-4 seconds is the exception rather than the norm, caused by lack of contrast, or poor low light focus on the camera side.

Quirkitized
02-15-2006, 03:31 PM
Like others suggested, I would go with the Sigma 70-300mm Super Macro II APO DG. I have it (the APO non-DG verison) with my D50, here are some pictures I took at the zoo.. All the pictures in this directory are with the 70-300mm Sigma Super Macro II APO non-DG verison, only a couple scenery shots are taken with a 28-70mm Sigma.

http://tmfiles.net/e107_plugins/autogallery/autogallery.php?show=Animals

It's a great lens for outdoor shots, but as others suggested if you want a fast in-door lens for sports photography, this isn't the lens you'd want to use. You can see it produces great pictures inside dark rooms like some of the animal shots, but I was using my tripod with slow shutter speed.

Sandy Bloom
02-15-2006, 03:59 PM
[QUOTE=Quirkitized]Like others suggested, I would go with the Sigma 70-300mm Super Macro II APO DG. I have it (the APO non-DG verison) with my D50, here are some pictures I took at the zoo.. All the pictures in this directory are with the 70-300mm Sigma Super Macro II APO non-DG verison, only a couple scenery shots are taken with a 28-70mm Sigma.

You guys have convinced me again! I will go with your suggestion of the Sigma lens. Just a (hopefully last on this thread) remaining question:

Is the Sigma 70-300 APO DG lens the same or different than the Sigma 70-300mm Super Macro II APO DG, (the APO non-DG verison) which are both mentioned on this List?

I wanna be sure to get the correct one. :)

Best,

Sandy

D70FAN
02-15-2006, 05:40 PM
[QUOTE=Quirkitized]Like others suggested, I would go with the Sigma 70-300mm Super Macro II APO DG. I have it (the APO non-DG verison) with my D50, here are some pictures I took at the zoo.. All the pictures in this directory are with the 70-300mm Sigma Super Macro II APO non-DG verison, only a couple scenery shots are taken with a 28-70mm Sigma.

You guys have convinced me again! I will go with your suggestion of the Sigma lens. Just a (hopefully last on this thread) remaining question:

Is the Sigma 70-300 APO DG lens the same or different than the Sigma 70-300mm Super Macro II APO DG, (the APO non-DG verison) which are both mentioned on this List?

I wanna be sure to get the correct one. :)

Best,

Sandy

This one...

http://www.sigmaphoto.com/lenses/lenses_all_details.asp?id=3303&navigator=3

Quirkitized
02-15-2006, 09:31 PM
Yeah, sorry to confuse you. The link above is the one you want :)

Payne
02-16-2006, 06:35 AM
all the shots were taken at long end = 300mm

http://www.pbase.com/image/54517568/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/54517575/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/54517571/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/54604684/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/54517583/original.jpg

Sandy Bloom
02-16-2006, 08:02 AM
[Nikon 70-300ED is also a good lens

Most of the suggestions I received touted the Sigma over even the Nikon 70-300 ED lens at $350.00, so that is why I am going Sigma. Do you have an opinion comparing these lenses?

These photos are terrific. Did you use the Sigma or the Nikon?

Sandy

Sandy Bloom
02-16-2006, 10:25 AM
Yeah, sorry to confuse you. The link above is the one you want :)

I just ordered this Sigma APO lens from Sigma 4 Less, and they told me that the two different lens names discussed above are the same lens. The gal was certain, and the web ad had the Super II name ommitted.

Hope I and she got it right.

'It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world..."

Thanks,

Sandy

Payne
02-16-2006, 11:36 AM
These photos are terrific

Thanks.


Did you use the Sigma or the Nikon?

The Nikon 70-300ED,

D70FAN
02-16-2006, 01:24 PM
I just ordered this Sigma APO lens from Sigma 4 Less, and they told me that the two different lens names discussed above are the same lens. The gal was certain, and the web ad had the Super II name ommitted.

Hope I and she got it right.

'It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world..."

Thanks,

Sandy

The older APO Super II is no longer available. If you paid $184.95 then you ordered the right lens.

Sandy Bloom
02-16-2006, 04:19 PM
Was wondering what good Nikon flash choices are there for the hot shoe of my D50?

I have an older Nikon Speedlight SB 16 in great shape and wondered if that would be suitable, although a camera salesman said no. What would I lose from using the SB 16 and what would a newer flash gain me with the D50?

Thanks again,

Sandy

Jason25
02-16-2006, 04:35 PM
Was wondering what good Nikon flash choices are there for the hot shoe of my D50?

I have an older Nikon Speedlight SB 16 in great shape and wondered if that would be suitable, although a camera salesman said no. What would I lose from using the SB 16 and what would a newer flash gain me with the D50?

Thanks again,

Sandy
The SB-600 or SB-800 are your best choices with a D50. Both will provide full i-TTL functionality. The 800 is more powerful and has some extra features (stroboscopic mode, 85mm reach over the 600's 70mm, etc.). I own the 600, and it's a fantastic flash as far as I'm concerned :)


Payne: Those are awesome photos with the 70-300 ED, very sharp :)

D70FAN
02-16-2006, 08:30 PM
The SB-600 or SB-800 are your best choices with a D50. Both will provide full i-TTL functionality. The 800 is more powerful and has some extra features (stroboscopic mode, 85mm reach over the 600's 70mm, etc.). I own the 600, and it's a fantastic flash as far as I'm concerned :)


Payne: Those are awesome photos with the 70-300 ED, very sharp :)

The SB800 also has the speedlight Commander controller built in. The D50 is the only current Nikon dSLR that does not have this function on-board. So if you ever want to use the remote Commander feature, the extra cost of the SB800 might be a good investment.

murrays
02-16-2006, 08:48 PM
The SB800 also has the speedlight Commander controller built in. The D50 is the only current Nikon dSLR that does not have this function on-board. So if you ever want to use the remote Commander feature, the extra cost of the SB800 might be a good investment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you need a second speedlight (either SB600 or SB800) to use the remote commander feature? If that's true, you could buy the SB600 now and the SB800 later if you wanted that feature.

-murray

D70FAN
02-17-2006, 05:24 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you need a second speedlight (either SB600 or SB800) to use the remote commander feature? If that's true, you could buy the SB600 now and the SB800 later if you wanted that feature.

-murray

Yup. Either way. Just wanted to add that it's another feature to consider on the SB800 that isn't on the 600, and is not built-in to the D50.

Pay now or pay later.;)

Payne
02-17-2006, 06:29 AM
Payne: Those are awesome photos with the 70-300 ED, very sharp :)

Thanks Jason, many people complaint about this lens but I guess everything in prohotography depends on the person who is behind the camera rather than the equipment by itself.

regards

erichlund
02-17-2006, 07:59 AM
One thing we also forget to mention is that you actually can use the flash you have. It just won't support the best modes. If you are tight on cash, maybe want to spend more money on memory card space and a spare battery, then you can use your current flash in non-TTL automatic and manual modes. You lose the TTL metering of the flash, and that capability is awesome, but you can get essentially the same results by applying your brain instead of the camera's brain. You will really have to learn how to use your flash to get the best results, but once you spend the time studying, you can get great results with what you already have.

Jason25
02-17-2006, 09:01 AM
The SB800 also has the speedlight Commander controller built in. The D50 is the only current Nikon dSLR that does not have this function on-board. So if you ever want to use the remote Commander feature, the extra cost of the SB800 might be a good investment.
I can't believe I forgot to mention commander mode, the biggest extra function :D Oops!

D70FAN
02-17-2006, 09:26 AM
Thanks Jason, many people complaint about this lens but I guess everything in prohotography depends on the person who is behind the camera rather than the equipment by itself.

regards

I think the major complaints are concerning the Nikkor AF 70-300 G, not the ED. The Nikkor 70-300 ED lens is fine (as you know).

The concensus from those who have used both the Nikkor ED and the Sigma APO is that they are both acceptable long zooms and very similar (some reviewers giving a very slight edge to Sigma although that may be based more on value than utility.

The major difference is: Nikkor 70-300 ED=~$350... Sigma 70-300 APO=~$200.

Sandy Bloom
02-17-2006, 12:22 PM
...but you can get essentially the same results by applying your brain instead of the camera's brain. You will really have to learn how to use your flash to get the best results, but once you spend the time studying, you can get great results with what you already have.


Righto. I tried my SB 16 with the D50 a little, and I can make manual adjustments to get good results.

i'll probably spring for the SB 600 still.

Sandy

erichlund
02-17-2006, 12:30 PM
...but you can get essentially the same results by applying your brain instead of the camera's brain. You will really have to learn how to use your flash to get the best results, but once you spend the time studying, you can get great results with what you already have.


Righto. I tried my SB 16 with the D50 a little, and I can make manual adjustments to get good results.

i'll probably spring for the SB 600 still.

Sandy
Yeah. I wasn't trying to talk you out of the SB600/800. I have the SB800 and I love it. With my D70, I had an SB28, but the two were stolen at the same time. Didn't make sense to replace the SB28, though that was a great flash in its own right.

D70FAN
02-17-2006, 02:44 PM
Yeah. I wasn't trying to talk you out of the SB600/800. I have the SB800 and I love it. With my D70, I had an SB28, but the two were stolen at the same time. Didn't make sense to replace the SB28, though that was a great flash in its own right.

While we have shared your pain... we also rejoice in your victory.

Bye-bye D70 and SB28... Hellooo D200 and SB800 (can't remember if there was a lens involved, but assume that there was, and I'm too lazy to go back that far).

There is a God.;)

erichlund
02-17-2006, 05:25 PM
Yeah, with the D70 I had the 18-70 kit and the 50 f1.8. and the SB28

With the D200 I got the 18-200VR, the 50 1.8, the 35 f2 and the AI-S 55 f2.8 micro. I also got two 2 gig cards instead of 1 gig, a second battery (finally), a new bag (lowe pro sumthineruther), a Whibal kit, an expodisc (very :cool: ), an OptixXR Pro for monitor calibration, other stuff I'm fergittin. Is it any wonder I have no money. Oh, can't forget the rocket blower (real one). Oh, and the SB800 we already mentioned. :eek:

Sandy Bloom
02-18-2006, 07:05 AM
[I]With the D200 I got the 18-200VR, the 50 1.8, the 35 f2 and the AI-S 55 f2.8 micro. I also got two 2 gig cards instead of 1 gig, a second battery (finally), a new bag (lowe pro sumthineruther), a Whibal kit, an expodisc (very :cool: ), an OptixXR Pro for monitor calibration, other stuff I'm fergittin. Is it any wonder I have no money. Oh, can't forget the rocket blower (real one). Oh, and the SB800 we already mentioned. :eek:[/QUOTE]

Out of curiosity, are you two above guys professional photographers? Maybe advanced hobbyists? BTW, what is meant by the term "prosumer"? (I'd ask you why the sky is blue, but I think I exceeded my quota on questions).

Regards,

Sandy

erichlund
02-18-2006, 12:44 PM
[I]With the D200 I got the 18-200VR, the 50 1.8, the 35 f2 and the AI-S 55 f2.8 micro. I also got two 2 gig cards instead of 1 gig, a second battery (finally), a new bag (lowe pro sumthineruther), a Whibal kit, an expodisc (very :cool: ), an OptixXR Pro for monitor calibration, other stuff I'm fergittin. Is it any wonder I have no money. Oh, can't forget the rocket blower (real one). Oh, and the SB800 we already mentioned. :eek:

Out of curiosity, are you two above guys professional photographers? Maybe advanced hobbyists? BTW, what is meant by the term "prosumer"? (I'd ask you why the sky is blue, but I think I exceeded my quota on questions).

Regards,

Sandy[/QUOTE]
George is a pretty good photographer, but I don't know if he takes paying jobs at all. Even if he does, he has some sort of engineering job that lets him travel to all sorts of neat places. Me, I'd like to be a pretty good photographer, but I have too many other hobbies, and a lack of willingness to give them up. However, I'm definitely an amateur.

Prosumer is a name given to products that are better than the usual consumer products, but below the true Pro gear. A D2X is a pro camera. The D200 walks a very fine line, but is really a prosumer model. The D70 used to be considered a prosumer, but with the D200 out, it really gets moved into the consumer category, Since there are distinct levels. When the D70 came out, it blurred the levels, because it was in many ways better than the D100 prosumer, but the D100 retained a few capabilities not included on the D70.

Prosumer used to be applied to the high end fixed lens cameras. With so many dSLR options, I don't think that really applies anymore. Frankly, the dropping prices on the dSLRs are really starting to pinch the profitability of the high end fixed cameras.

Sandy Bloom
02-24-2006, 08:36 AM
Just wanted to thank all you guys who have helped me select my D50 and related stuff. I really appreciate how knowledgeable and courteose everyone has been.

I have been on other newsgroups where people have not been so polite. I've never really been flamed, but you could tell the big egos were out in force. The rancor between others was not fun to read. Maybe that happens here ocassionally, but I get good vibes here.

I know I will have questions in the future, so maybe I'm smoothing the way for then. Wish I knew enough to offer something back. Maybe someday.

BTW, when I get this cataract fixed, I'll probably appreciate the high quality photos more.

Best Regards,

Sandy

Sandy Bloom
03-24-2006, 08:43 AM
[QUOTE=Jason25]The SB-600 or SB-800 are your best choices with a D50. Both will provide full i-TTL functionality. The 800 is more powerful and has some extra features (stroboscopic mode, 85mm reach over the 600's 70mm, etc.). I own the 600, and it's a fantastic flash as far as I'm concerned :)


What would a separate say SB 600 flash give me over the D50's built in flash, besides distance? Oh, that's right, bounce flash. Anything else? I'm trying to decide if/when I would really use a separate flash, and also between the 600 and 800.

Regards,

Sandy

erichlund
03-24-2006, 10:28 AM
[QUOTE=Jason25]The SB-600 or SB-800 are your best choices with a D50. Both will provide full i-TTL functionality. The 800 is more powerful and has some extra features (stroboscopic mode, 85mm reach over the 600's 70mm, etc.). I own the 600, and it's a fantastic flash as far as I'm concerned :)


What would a separate say SB 600 flash give me over the D50's built in flash, besides distance? Oh, that's right, bounce flash. Anything else? I'm trying to decide if/when I would really use a separate flash, and also between the 600 and 800.

Regards,

Sandy
Don't discount that bounce too casually. I recently took a course in using pro lighting equipment, and the main thing separating them from using flash was the ability to use a wide range of light modifiers effectively. Even the more powerful SB800 is not strong enough to make use of the 52" softbox that we were using in class. Lighting modifiers are what make pro lights look so natural, but they require lots of power.

That said, the things you get with bounce flash are light coming from a more natural direction, resulting in more natural shadow placement, and the light from the strobe spreads out more, giving a softer, more natural look, rather than the direct flash, deer in the headlights look. While redeye is not really a problem on these cameras, bounce flash, or even the greater separation of direct flash reduces the possibility even farther.

The SB800 has a number of advantages over the SB600. You get the ability to use an extra battery for faster recycle (OTOH, 5 batteries is a funky problem), more power, a diffusion dome (a modifier you can use), colored gels for light matching, and built in commander mode for using multiple flash units (something the D50 doesn't have that the D70s has built in).

D70FAN
03-24-2006, 10:29 AM
[QUOTE=Jason25]The SB-600 or SB-800 are your best choices with a D50. Both will provide full i-TTL functionality. The 800 is more powerful and has some extra features (stroboscopic mode, 85mm reach over the 600's 70mm, etc.). I own the 600, and it's a fantastic flash as far as I'm concerned :)


What would a separate say SB 600 flash give me over the D50's built in flash, besides distance? Oh, that's right, bounce flash. Anything else? I'm trying to decide if/when I would really use a separate flash, and also between the 600 and 800.

Regards,

Sandy

The SB800 has a little more more power and includes the Speedlight Commander controller not included on the D50. The D70(s) has Commander control built-in so either flash (600/800) can be used on-camera and as a remote. It's one of the features people forget about when differentiating the D50 and D70.;)

If you ever decide to use multiple external flash units you will need the Commander controller. Also sold as a stand alone for about $250.

If you use a large lens an external flash will keep you from seeing a lens shadow on close-ups, and of course external flash offers better flash control all the way around, with diffusors, and filters for every occasion.

Hope this helps.

Sandy Bloom
04-07-2006, 09:11 AM
My new SB-600 instructs me to set my D50 camera to matrix metering, but I cannot locate matrix metering in any menu. I thought the D70s had matrix metering, but the D50 specs. seem to say I have matrix metering in my camera. If I cannot set it to matrix metering, I am to set it to center weighted metering.:confused:

I'd appreciate any help you could offer.

Thanks,

Regards,

Sandy

Jason25
04-07-2006, 09:42 AM
Sandy,

Go to the tab that looks like a pencil, then go to number 13. It's the first option there :)

Sandy Bloom
04-07-2006, 11:32 AM
My D50 only goes to number 6 under pencil --Flash....:confused:

Sandy

erichlund
04-07-2006, 11:46 AM
My D50 only goes to number 6 under pencil --Flash....:confused:

Sandy
Check page 69 of your manual. It will tell you how to set Detailed for the CSM/Setup Menu, which will allow you to see the extended options. "13: Metering" will then become available.

Sandy Bloom
04-10-2006, 10:11 AM
Check page 69 of your manual. It will tell you how to set Detailed for the CSM/Setup Menu, which will allow you to see the extended options. "13: Metering" will then become available.

Thanks a lot. Gotta read more of the manual.

Regards,

Sandy

eduardofrances
04-18-2006, 11:03 PM
I was in the same position couldnt decide between the D70s and the D50 I bought the D50 with 18-55 and the marvelous 50mm f/1.8, let me tell you I have been able to get some wonderful photos with this camera I only use it in manual , the 18-55mm is far better than others found in the competition, more sharper, responsive and silent (Silent wave technology for quieter lenses) if you need a tack sharp lens with big aperture go for the 50 mm f/1.8 AF D ( I have the non D the only difference is the D lens will give you better results with the flash) since the D50 has its 1.5x Field of view crop the 50 becomes the equivalent in sight to a 75mm and it works wonders for portraits, Image quality is superb no Noise visible in ISO 200-400, little and very usable in ISO 800,and with little PP ISO 1600 is great, the camera is fast and responisive I have been able to shoot (with a trascend 512mb 80x card) without lag burst of photos

Would I miss the D70s features? to be sincere nop :) sure it has some limitations no ilumination on the top LCD panel (but you can work with aperture and shutter speed in the viewfinder and the other settings like ISO and WB can be set in the camera menu in the rear LCD screen ) and the DOP button well I know how they will look like without that button (over 6 years with film slr teachs you that :D) and 1/4000th speed is more than enough for me right now :D (vs D70s 1/8000th unless you are trying to freeze a bullet in a photo you wont need this one lol)

The D50 was awarded as the best entry level by DIWA and PCmagazine in 2005, and this year by TIPA (Technical Image Press Association) mix this with all the features it packs and the price (in the US $650) it is a winner :) you could pick the D50 with kit lens and buy other accs :)

this is IMHO :) read what other users have to say and compare :) also play with both cameras in a store :D

Good luck ;)

Sandy Bloom
04-29-2006, 05:53 PM
I am very happy also with the D50. I have to remember to hold the camera more steady when I use my Sigma 70 to 300 zoom at longer focal lengths. (Of course, I did have a few beers at my son's bachelor party Milwaukee Brewers game a week ago Saturday). Also, I did not manually change the ISO to a higher level, shooting with available light.

I have a Nikkor 50mm f1.4 lens from my Nikkormat bought in 1971. I have not yet gotten the knack of using it well manually. I probably need to finish the manual.

I'll be using my D50 and SB 600 flash at my son's wedding on May 6. Hopefully I will learn enough, (and watch my intake), to get the best out of the camera.

Regards,

Sandy

mike g
04-29-2006, 06:16 PM
I will be getting the d50 tomorrow as my first dslr but I cant decide on the memory card . Is sd ultra 2 fast enough or will I need the sd extreme 3 to get the most out of the camera speed wise .

K1W1
04-29-2006, 07:12 PM
Why post the same question twice in two threads in a matter of minutes?

Sandy Bloom
04-30-2006, 07:57 AM
I will be getting the d50 tomorrow as my first dslr but I cant decide on the memory card . Is sd ultra 2 fast enough or will I need the sd extreme 3 to get the most out of the camera speed wise .

I use the Ultra II 2 gig card, and it seems to work fine for me. I got a good deal on it at Circuit City. The list experts probably have real data on this. There appear to be other brands, Lexar, e.g., that rate or describe their cards with speed ratings (125 X etc.), which suggests to me that there may be sd cards on the market which are faster than the Extreme. For my usage and dollars, the Ultra II seems like a good choice.

Someone suggested to me that getting a large gig card may be a bad idea if the card crashes. You will lose more data. I still went with the 2 gig.

Regards,

Sandy

Prospero
04-30-2006, 03:33 PM
From what I have heard it doesn't really matter which type of SD-card you use, because the speed with which the D-50 writes is slower than that of the slowest SD-card currently on the market (the standard blue ones).

I don't know if this is true; I use the Ultra II card of Sandisk myself and it works great. However, this summer when I will go on holiday I will buy a bunch of standard 2 Gb cards, because they are quite a lot cheaper and I don't need high burst rates then anyway.

pjcard
05-10-2006, 02:59 AM
I have been on other newsgroups where people have not been so polite. I've never really been flamed, but you could tell the big egos were out in force. The rancor between others was not fun to read. Maybe that happens here ocassionally, but I get good vibes here.

So true! People are very nice and helpful here, even when I ask silly questions. No big ego's, lens snobs or flamers here :)

michaelb
05-10-2006, 09:33 AM
The info in this forum has been very helpful to me. I am planning on "upgrading" from a Canon S2 and I have been considering the XT, D50 and the Pentax DS/DL. I will definitely keep the S2 because it is so versatile. Based on the feel of the camera in my hands, the price and better compatability with 3rd party lenses I am now leaning towards the D50 or the Pentax. The owner reviews that I have read of the D50 have been excellent. I am primarily interested in nature photography / marcros as well as the ususal family and vacation photos.

Has anyone here regreted their purchase of the D50? Do you find it difficult to lug around because of it's size? Do you miss the DOF preview?

Sandy Bloom
05-20-2006, 12:11 PM
The info in this forum has been very helpful to me. I am planning on "upgrading" from a Canon S2 and I have been considering the XT, D50 and the Pentax DS/DL. I will definitely keep the S2 because it is so versatile. Based on the feel of the camera in my hands, the price and better compatability with 3rd party lenses I am now leaning towards the D50 or the Pentax. The owner reviews that I have read of the D50 have been excellent. I am primarily interested in nature photography / marcros as well as the ususal family and vacation photos.

Has anyone here regreted their purchase of the D50? Do you find it difficult to lug around because of it's size? Do you miss the DOF preview?

For what it is worth, the March 2006 Edition of Popular Photograpy rates the Rebel XT the highest. I have heard that the XT kit lens is not very good, so if true, you might consider buying the XT body only. I don't know if your Canon S2 lenses are compatible with the XT, but that is one thought.

I bought a D50, but if I had the dough, I would have preferred the D200. I like the D50 a lot. I don't miss the DOF Preview, but I am a an amateur. I would think that any DSLR you would buy is going to be more awkward to lug than smaller cameras, especially if you buy a separate flash unit. You can buy smaller digital near DSLR cameras, like the Lumix, but the noise (grain) I might find to be a problem. Those cameras have image stabilization built in, but they have fewer settings etc.

I had little difficulty in choosing the D50 over the D70s. The 50 has some improvements over the 70s which one can sometimes see. The price difference made the choice easier as well.

That's all I know.

Good luck,

Sandy

K1W1
05-20-2006, 04:39 PM
I don't know if your Canon S2 lenses are compatible with the XT, but that is one thought.
Sandy

The S2 is a fixed lens point and shoot camera. You cannot remove the lens unless you use a hacksaw.

D70FAN
05-20-2006, 05:18 PM
For what it is worth, the March 2006 Edition of Popular Photograpy rates the Rebel XT the highest. I have heard that the XT kit lens is not very good, so if true, you might consider buying the XT body only. I don't know if your Canon S2 lenses are compatible with the XT, but that is one thought.

I bought a D50, but if I had the dough, I would have preferred the D200. I like the D50 a lot. I don't miss the DOF Preview, but I am a an amateur. I would think that any DSLR you would buy is going to be more awkward to lug than smaller cameras, especially if you buy a separate flash unit. You can buy smaller digital near DSLR cameras, like the Lumix, but the noise (grain) I might find to be a problem. Those cameras have image stabilization built in, but they have fewer settings etc.

I had little difficulty in choosing the D50 over the D70s. The 50 has some improvements over the 70s which one can sometimes see. The price difference made the choice easier as well.

That's all I know.

Good luck,

Sandy

As a camera, the D70s is head-and-antlers above the D50. That said, the D50 is enough camera for most home and vacation shooters. If you are planning to branch out to serious amature and even pro photography the D70s is a better solution.

klrbee25
06-01-2006, 09:37 PM
Saying the D70 is "head and antlers" above the D50 is just not true. Check the specs...it has extra features for advanced users, but overall the processing of the D50 is actually better with less noise and moire.

As for the Rebel XT being the king of the block, my recent experience says otherwise. A friend of mine bought the Rebel XT a few months back, and I just picked up a D50 last week. We both went to the zoo and shot 300-400 pics, followed by racing back home to compare results. The D50 essentially killed the Canon. While I'd like to attribute this to the photographer (pat pat on my back), my buddy knows what he's doing. One thing I've noticed is that the Rebel XT kit lens has pretty crumby low light performance. A good portion of his photos were blurred when photographing animals in shadows with his kit lens (18-55mm), while similar photos with my D50 and a Sigma 70-300 APO (old model with the push/pull zoom) were crispy clear. One would expect I'd have had more blur issues while shooting at 300mm with no tripod in the same conditions. In fact, not a single image was blurry.

On a side note. Can anyone suggest other forums for discussing Nikon dSLRs? I'm enjoying this site, but I'd like some other options as well. Thanks!
12751

K1W1
06-01-2006, 11:32 PM
Saying the D70 is "head and antlers" above the D50 is just not true. Check the specs...it has extra features for advanced users, but overall the processing of the D50 is actually better with less noise and moire.

I agree with that but obviously George doesn't so I think the best thing to do is for everyone to agree to disagree and all stay friends.



On a side note. Can anyone suggest other forums for discussing Nikon dSLRs? I'm enjoying this site, but I'd like some other options as well. Thanks!


I'm not sure what the correct protocol is here because you are asking for people to post links to other sites that are effectively in competition with this one. lets just say that if you were to use your favorite search engine to search on something like "Nikon forum" you will find many results that could be worth investigating.

coldrain
06-02-2006, 03:09 AM
As for the Rebel XT being the king of the block, my recent experience says otherwise. A friend of mine bought the Rebel XT a few months back, and I just picked up a D50 last week. We both went to the zoo and shot 300-400 pics, followed by racing back home to compare results. The D50 essentially killed the Canon. While I'd like to attribute this to the photographer (pat pat on my back), my buddy knows what he's doing. One thing I've noticed is that the Rebel XT kit lens has pretty crumby low light performance. A good portion of his photos were blurred when photographing animals in shadows with his kit lens (18-55mm), while similar photos with my D50 and a Sigma 70-300 APO (old model with the push/pull zoom) were crispy clear. One would expect I'd have had more blur issues while shooting at 300mm with no tripod in the same conditions. In fact, not a single image was blurry.

Well... while I do not think highly of popular photopgraphy, the 350D/XT is a very good camera. The D50 is too. That your friend produces blurry pictures can hardly be attributed to the camera though.
Even if a lens is softer (not as sharp), pictures do not get blurry. And it will make NO difference whether you use a XT or a D50, when you use the same shutter speeds. Both will be as blurry as the other.

So... it does seem your friend does not really know what he is doing. he obviously uses too slow exposure times for his hands, and what you see is camera movement blur. If you really want to know, either use both cameras yoruself (same person), or check the EXIF data of his photos. You will probably see that he uses too long shutterspeeds.

That the D70 is head and antlers above the D50 is a bit silly, of course. The D50 is a lot less noisy and produces less artifacts. It also is more accurate in white balance and colour reproduction. The D70 has a few more gimmicks though, but most of those are hardly ever used by most, and certainly not necessary. And it of course has that cumbersome USB 1.1, which forces you to use a card reader (not overly handy when you are on a trip and do not want to take a laptop with you, but instead a portable solution that connects directly to the camera).

K1W1
06-02-2006, 03:45 AM
(not overly handy when you are on a trip and do not want to take a laptop with you, but instead a portable solution that connects directly to the camera).

Now that is one area where there is absolutely no competition. The D50 by virtue of it's SD cards has the race well and truely won. With the new SanDisk Ultra II cards you simply take the card out if the camera "break" it open and plug it directly into any USB port - not even a card reader required!

D70FAN
06-02-2006, 05:05 PM
Saying the D70 is "head and antlers" above the D50 is just not true. Check the specs...it has extra features for advanced users, but overall the processing of the D50 is actually better with less noise and moire.

As for the Rebel XT being the king of the block, my recent experience says otherwise. A friend of mine bought the Rebel XT a few months back, and I just picked up a D50 last week. We both went to the zoo and shot 300-400 pics, followed by racing back home to compare results. The D50 essentially killed the Canon. While I'd like to attribute this to the photographer (pat pat on my back), my buddy knows what he's doing. One thing I've noticed is that the Rebel XT kit lens has pretty crumby low light performance. A good portion of his photos were blurred when photographing animals in shadows with his kit lens (18-55mm), while similar photos with my D50 and a Sigma 70-300 APO (old model with the push/pull zoom) were crispy clear. One would expect I'd have had more blur issues while shooting at 300mm with no tripod in the same conditions. In fact, not a single image was blurry.

On a side note. Can anyone suggest other forums for discussing Nikon dSLRs? I'm enjoying this site, but I'd like some other options as well. Thanks!
12751

Please note that I prefaced the H&A with "as a camera". For entry level use and shooting JPEG I can understand why people don't get it.

Nothing wrong with the D50, and I never said there was, just voicing an opinion on the D70 after using it for 2+ years. YMMV.;)

Sandy Bloom
07-04-2006, 06:16 PM
I have heard that the kit lens for the Canon xlt is not very good. I have also been told by a camera salesman that the kit inner lens part (facing the camera body) is plastic. I don't know what is really true. I think the D70s has many more controls an experienced person would appreciate, and the D50 is easier to use just out of the box. The D50 has some specs that appear to better the D70s. But, specs are specs. I thank this list (George et al.) for "steering" me toward the D50. I am very happy about my purchase.

Regards,

Sandy :)

coldrain
07-05-2006, 04:22 AM
I have heard that the kit lens for the Canon xlt is not very good. I have also been told by a camera salesman that the kit inner lens part (facing the camera body) is plastic. I don't know what is really true. I think the D70s has many more controls an experienced person would appreciate, and the D50 is easier to use just out of the box. The D50 has some specs that appear to better the D70s. But, specs are specs. I thank this list (George et al.) for "steering" me toward the D50. I am very happy about my purchase.

Regards,

Sandy :)
The mount part is plastic, just like cheap lenses from Nikon, Sigma and such. Nothing bad about that. And no, the kit lens from the Canon 350D/XT is not as bad as said, in some areas it is better than the two Nikon kit lenses, and of course in some areas the Nikons will be better.

XaiLo
07-06-2006, 09:54 PM
Have a look at this article: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm

Basically, doubling the number of pixels on a CCD only increases effective print length and width by 41% given the same pixels/inch.

Going from 6 to 8 mp would increase the effective print size by 15% (square root of 8/6).

Bottom line, 6.1 mp should serve you well for many years to come.

-murray

An outstanding read definately explains a lot. I'm just going to have fun.

kman458
07-25-2006, 04:31 PM
Well I just traded up from an A1/AE-1p to a D50 in the past couple of weeks and had some questions but this thread took care of most of them. Thanks for all the info.

philwojo
07-28-2006, 08:26 AM
This was one of the best reads I have had in researching my camera purschase (D50 vs Rebel XT). Someone should look at making this a sticky post and renaming it for the novice user doing research.

Although it was long it answered and covered tons of information that I, and I am sure most people have when looking at and entry level dSLR.

thanks,
Phil

enehawaii
07-28-2006, 11:00 AM
By far the best forum I have come across so far. The people here give excellent opinions and advice. Had a question about fast glass for outdoor night shots. What are the options for around $500 and under. Ive been looking up specs, but would like some hands on opinions here...

Thanks
Eric