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erichlund
01-18-2006, 09:24 AM
Didn't get out to take photos this last weekend, but I was recording some documents that were too large for my scanner. This little bit of trivia came up. The D200 portrait mode sensor is consistently fooled when holding the camera directly toward the ground. It always thinks it is in portrait orientation, even when this is not the case. I would have preferred it the other way, but c'est la vie.

Remember, I did say it was trivial. ;)

Cheers,
Eric

K1W1
01-18-2006, 02:36 PM
Can't wait to get home to try the D50 now.

coldrain
01-18-2006, 02:40 PM
My 350D loses orientation at times too in such situations.

D70FAN
01-18-2006, 04:32 PM
Thanks for the info guys. I'll have to give that a try.

K1W1
01-19-2006, 02:40 AM
Well I guess D50's rule in this case :D
I just shot my feet. When I shot in portrait they came out in portrait. When I shot in landscape they came out in landscape. Then I deleted them. :D

Balrog
01-19-2006, 06:36 AM
Umm .. question - if the camera is pointed directly at the ground .. how would you even define "portrait / landscape" orientation? Stick the camera on a tripod, point it down, take a picture .. say it's portrait .. now, rotate the tripod 90 degrees, take another .. now leave the tripod where it is, and WALK 90 degrees over to the side, and take another .. see what I'm getting at? :)

erichlund
01-19-2006, 09:15 AM
Umm .. question - if the camera is pointed directly at the ground .. how would you even define "portrait / landscape" orientation? Stick the camera on a tripod, point it down, take a picture .. say it's portrait .. now, rotate the tripod 90 degrees, take another .. now leave the tripod where it is, and WALK 90 degrees over to the side, and take another .. see what I'm getting at? :)
I'm not familiar with your Pentax, but the Nikons will automatically orient portrait photos vertically on the back LCD. It's an option in one of the menus. Some editing software will pick up this information and display the photo correctly on screen without having to rotate the photo. This is not only a timesaver. It is particularly useful for jpg photos, because a rotation does not mean one more save on the long slide to photo degradation.

If I take the D200 in landscape, and rotate the lens straight down to the ground, most of the time it will switch to portrait for post shot display. I have not thoroughly tested enough to say "everytime".

chuckp
01-19-2006, 11:04 AM
My d70 does the same thing. Good thing I don't take portraits of people on the ground!

erichlund
01-19-2006, 01:06 PM
True, but it can be a little inconvenient for copy work.

I don't want to make more out of this than it is. To me, it is dead trivial.

I'm much more concerned that you have to take two entirely different menu paths to change Color Space (AdobeRGB vs. sRGB) and Color Mode (I, Ia, II, III, and IIIa). To my thinking, that was just plain short sightedness. In the end, this makes no real difference to me, because I'll just set it once and leave it alone, as I shoot NEF. I can change the space and mode in software easier than I can on the camera. But a JPG shooter who likes to change these a lot won't like this.

For those not familiar (and I'm not even sure I have all this completely correct):

AdobeRGB has wider gamut so can display finer gradations of color (at least that's how I understand it). However aRGB is not recognized by a lot of web applications, so pictures on the web appear flat. sRGB is widely recognized, but is designed more for display it as is shooting (please don't take this as an absolute). Mode I is optimized for portraits and mode III is optimized for landscapes. Mode II, available only in Adobe, is for significant post processing. Both the space and the mode are EXIF data, so do not affect the raw sensor data. However, once you convert to jpg, the color space and mode can no longer be changed, as they are used to create the jpg data, not separate from and applied to the jpg data.

Balrog
01-20-2006, 06:28 AM
I'm not familiar with your Pentax, but the Nikons will automatically orient portrait photos vertically on the back LCD. It's an option in one of the menus. Some editing software will pick up this information and display the photo correctly on screen without having to rotate the photo. This is not only a timesaver. It is particularly useful for jpg photos, because a rotation does not mean one more save on the long slide to photo degradation.

If I take the D200 in landscape, and rotate the lens straight down to the ground, most of the time it will switch to portrait for post shot display. I have not thoroughly tested enough to say "everytime".
You didn't get what I'm saying... I'm aware of how orientation sensors work; there isn't actually one in the Pentax as far as I know, but I've used 'em often enough on other cameras.
I've just got a 'geometric' problem .. "portrait" and "landscape" are defined by which side of the camera is facing down, right? The camera has six faces, right? front, back, left, right, top, bottom. If top or bottom are facing down, that's 'landscape mode'. If left or right are facing down, that's 'portrait mode'. If the front or back are facing down .. ? You can't classify that as "portrait" OR "landscape". What the camera will do in such a situation is obviously dependent on the design of the orientation sensor...

erichlund
01-20-2006, 10:09 AM
You didn't get what I'm saying... I'm aware of how orientation sensors work; there isn't actually one in the Pentax as far as I know, but I've used 'em often enough on other cameras.
I've just got a 'geometric' problem .. "portrait" and "landscape" are defined by which side of the camera is facing down, right? The camera has six faces, right? front, back, left, right, top, bottom. If top or bottom are facing down, that's 'landscape mode'. If left or right are facing down, that's 'portrait mode'. If the front or back are facing down .. ? You can't classify that as "portrait" OR "landscape". What the camera will do in such a situation is obviously dependent on the design of the orientation sensor...
Actually, portrait and landscape are defined by what is "up" or "top" in the image. If the short side of the image defines up or top, then it's a portrait frame. If the long side is up or top, then it's landscape. It doesn't matter what orientation the camera is held at, except of course that the long and short sides of the sensor are fixed in relation to the geometry of the camera itself. So, if I take a picture of a document that is wider than tall, and I intend the wide side to be the top, as it is on the document, I want a landscape image. However, if I don't turn off portrait orientation in the camera menu, the image may very well be displayed with the short side on top and bottom on my camera's lcd (and on the computer screen), because, it thinks pointed down is portrait mode. This is trivial on the LCD, and for an NEF, I can rotate the image without loss. A number of applications now let you rotate a jpg without loss, but some still do not. Did I mention this was a trivial issue? :D

Balrog
01-20-2006, 07:31 PM
Actually, portrait and landscape are defined by what is "up" or "top" in the image. If the short side of the image defines up or top, then it's a portrait frame. If the long side is up or top, then it's landscape. It doesn't matter what orientation the camera is held at, except of course that the long and short sides of the sensor are fixed in relation to the geometry of the camera itself. So, if I take a picture of a document that is wider than tall, and I intend the wide side to be the top, as it is on the document, I want a landscape image. However, if I don't turn off portrait orientation in the camera menu, the image may very well be displayed with the short side on top and bottom on my camera's lcd (and on the computer screen), because, it thinks pointed down is portrait mode. This is trivial on the LCD, and for an NEF, I can rotate the image without loss. A number of applications now let you rotate a jpg without loss, but some still do not. Did I mention this was a trivial issue? :D
I know, but i like debating trivialities :D .. so .. what I'm saying is the camera decides which side you intended to be the top by gravity. Since (as you so rightly state) the sensor is fixed with respect to the camera, when gravity points through the bottom of the camera, camera tags the picture as a landscape. When gravity points out the left or right side (camera held rotated), it gets tagged a portrait. When gravity points out the front face of the camera, the camera couldn't possibly know what to do ..