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TheObiJuan
10-26-2005, 01:48 AM
http://nikond200images.blogspot.com/
The 18-200 VR is interesting. It is faster than the sigma too, maxing out at f/5.6 instead of 6.3.

K1W1
10-26-2005, 03:32 AM
This is the most over hyped piece of equipment since Windows 95!
Who cares?
Everybody has known for months about these products. They were always going to be released and when they were released people would be able to buy them. Big thrills!
Lets get on with life and stop pretending we believe in the tooth fairy.

TheObiJuan
10-26-2005, 01:30 PM
Not everyone is as cynical as you. :rolleyes:

This is a forum for camera enthusiasts, this forum specifically, Nikon DSLRs, is information regarding Nikon DSLRs, so the leak, or info regarding the release of a new DSLR, regardless of it's anticipation, is exciting.
If ya aint got nothing nice to say, then keep it to yourself.;)

Get on with your life and try to be positive. It's easier than being negative. :)


The 18-200 VR lens is very interesting. I hope the optics hold up. I bet it will probably be priced around $600.

Rex914
10-26-2005, 02:10 PM
That 18-200 lens looks interesting. It's like the Sigma but has IS, or you can think of it as a 17-85 except extended further. I serious doubt that it will be $600, more like $1000. :(

Is it me or does it have more of a "20D"-like form factor in that it's flatter and more horzontal rather than "pro-body"ish like the D70s?

The features (on the site) look promising and the price is right. I'd be seriously tempted if Canon weren't offering its even more tempting set of rebates right now. For $200 more than the price of the D200, I can pick up a 20D, a 70-200 f/2.8 L, AND a 50mm f/1.4, shipping and no tax. Granted the D200 is quite a lot more camera than the 20D (also has weather sealing), the 20D is a steal right now. :)

TheObiJuan
10-26-2005, 02:19 PM
how do you know it's a better camera than the 20D?
I have not seen any official specs yet.
And we have yet to see image quality, iso performance, focusing accurace, etc.
If it has the HSC, I will be tempted, and I love canon.

Rex914
10-26-2005, 02:25 PM
Unless my specs were wrong back in August, I think those are pretty much what the specs will be. I've also seen on DPR that they are the same specs with some minor tweaks. It appears that on a whole, this is a slimmed down D2X, and by that count and by the price, it's a little bit more camera than the 20D. Of course, there's image quality, ISO/noise etc. as you say, but what are the chances of that bombing out? :)

ReF
10-26-2005, 02:36 PM
This is the most over hyped piece of equipment since Windows 95!
Who cares?
Everybody has known for months about these products. They were always going to be released and when they were released people would be able to buy them. Big thrills!
Lets get on with life and stop pretending we believe in the tooth fairy.

i agree with obi here. if you already knew about the products plus the release dates and weren't interested in the news, then keep it to yourself instead of adding a bunch of worthless, rude comments - it doesn't help anybody. i do disagree with one thing that obi said though - i think it's a lot harder to be positive. it doesn't take any skills to be rude.

that lens does look interesting though. i've got no nikon equipment at all but it sure would be interesting to see how much better the nikon optics are compared the to tam and sig versions.

kornhauser
10-26-2005, 04:16 PM
i agree with obi here. if you already knew about the products plus the release dates and weren't interested in the news, then keep it to yourself instead of adding a bunch of worthless, rude comments - it doesn't help anybody. i do disagree with one thing that obi said though - i think it's a lot harder to be positive. it doesn't take any skills to be rude.

that lens does look interesting though. i've got no nikon equipment at all but it sure would be interesting to see how much better the nikon optics are compared the to tam and sig versions.


Guys, I've got no dog in this fight. However, I hate to agree that the camera does seem a bit hyped. Just as I bought my D70s, seems Nikon came out with something that appears to be better and costs twice as much.

This is my opinion and one of the charms of this message board. The right to share experiences, ideas and opinions. I thought the "tooth fairy" comment was actually quite humorous and took no offense in it.

If everyone that came to this forum had the same thoughts and ideas; nothing would ever be gained. Let's not judge the comments of one person just based on the number of posts that person has.

TheObiJuan
10-26-2005, 04:51 PM
It's not your ideas, its your approach.
If you are unhappy with technological advancement and upgrades, state it.
I got the Sony P150 back in December and the P200 came out 2 weeks later.
I was ticked, but I dealt with it instead of posting insidious comments.
:)

I sold my 20D for various reasons, the next iteration is one of them. I am prepared for the successor.

Esoterra
10-26-2005, 05:14 PM
This is a place of friendship, sharing ideas, and being considerate of others and their views. No need to slap others hands cause you dont agree. Obi has a right to be happy about a new camera coming out, and the right to post about it. reffering to the tooth fairy is demeaning to Obi in that you feel he is childish? come on... lets all act like grown ups here and not succumb to child like name calling!

Rex914
10-26-2005, 07:14 PM
Just as I bought my D70s, seems Nikon came out with something that appears to be better and costs twice as much.
1) This is in no way the successor to the D70s. This is a completely different class of camera that's more akin to the 5D/1DS Mark II relationship where the former is a "lite" prosumer form of the pro camera. Don't let the $2000 price tag fool you.

2) Like it or not, everybody saw this coming at some point, and all indications pointed to "November." It's not like this was some big secret that suddenly popped out. :)

erichlund
10-27-2005, 08:07 AM
1) This is in no way the successor to the D70s. This is a completely different class of camera that's more akin to the 5D/1DS Mark II relationship where the former is a "lite" prosumer form of the pro camera. Don't let the $2000 price tag fool you.

2) Like it or not, everybody saw this coming at some point, and all indications pointed to "November." It's not like this was some big secret that suddenly popped out. :)

Personally, I'd call the D70s the prosumer camera. Some pros use it because they don't need more (so why waste the money), but it's more directed at the consumer. I look at the D2X and D200 as two levels of Pro camera. The D2X is for the guy who needs every ounce of power he can get out of the camera. The D200 is his backup or for the guy that just doesn't need that much power. But when the body is likely to come in over $2000, the only consumers that will be buying that one are those with too much money on their hands. Sure, the specs are nice, but I just can't see most consumers spending that kind of cash on a camera. Yes, there will be some, but I really don't think Nikon will have the consumer in mind with such an expensive camera.

I think the D100 was a bit of an anomaly, in that it was eventually well under $2000, but I suspect that was mostly because the D70 equalled or eclipsed many of its capabilities. I don't think Nikon really intended to blur the line between the Pro and Prosumer lines, but they knew they had a blockbuster with the D70, so they were willing to take the hit to the D100. I suspect they will do a better job of making the D200 Pro line camera distinctive from the D < 100 line of prosumer / consumer cameras, if for no other reason than to keep the price on the D200 high.

Cheers,
Eric

Vich
10-27-2005, 10:16 AM
Rudness, not to be confused with (but sometimes combined with) directness, is just reactionary noise and counter productive to constructive communication. It creates a challenge to read through the distracting emotional garbage to see any real message. Sometimes its required to get through to someone who operates at that level, but those people are rare exceptions around here.

Thanks for the link and heads up Obi. I don't follow Nikon news and had not heard word one about it. Question though - the first sentence of the link states $1999. Was that for a package? An 18-200 IS lense, if Nikon puts any effort into its optics, would be very interesting. Why the guess about $600, or even $1000.

Also; it mentions noise issues and only 100 - 800 ISO (with 1600 boost). Most of the reactions to the Canon 5D reveal that noise reduction at high ISO is one of the most important factors to DSLR buyers today.

TheObiJuan
10-28-2005, 07:43 AM
Rudness, not to be confused with (but sometimes combined with) directness, is just reactionary noise and counter productive to constructive communication. It creates a challenge to read through the distracting emotional garbage to see any real message. Sometimes its required to get through to someone who operates at that level, but those people are rare exceptions around here.


Very well said.


Thanks for the link and heads up Obi. I don't follow Nikon news and had not heard word one about it. Question though - the first sentence of the link states $1999. Was that for a package? An 18-200 IS lense, if Nikon puts any effort into its optics, would be very interesting. Why the guess about $600, or even $1000.


I believe the price is for the body alone. I guessed 600 based on the fact that it is a consumer lens with VR. If it was an f/4 lens I would have estimated 1300 or slightly more. I honestly hope nikon doesn't try to ask $1000 for it. :(
[/quote]



Also; it mentions noise issues and only 100 - 800 ISO (with 1600 boost). Most of the reactions to the Canon 5D reveal that noise reduction at high ISO is one of the most important factors to DSLR buyers today.
[/quote]

You don't get a Nikon for it's noise performance. You get it for the ergonomics, build, and everything else. NR at high ISO is crucial to getting clean images, both on chip and via processing in camera.

Balrog
10-28-2005, 02:09 PM
It's 18-200 with VR .. and it's Nikkor .. the current (Sigma, Tamron) non-stabilized same speed 18-200s are selling for about $400 .. you really think Nikon's only going to add another $200 for the VR AND the Nikkor name? I mean, it'd be great if they did, but I'm thinking it'll cost at least twice as much.

D70FAN
10-28-2005, 02:43 PM
It's 18-200 with VR .. and it's Nikkor .. the current (Sigma, Tamron) non-stabilized same speed 18-200s are selling for about $400 .. you really think Nikon's only going to add another $200 for the VR AND the Nikkor name? I mean, it'd be great if they did, but I'm thinking it'll cost at least twice as much.

From the appearance this lens is f3.5-5.6 so it's a little faster than the Tamron and Sigmas at f3.5-6.3.

I'm thinking that Nikon wants to limit the impact of the Tamron and Sigma lenses, and entice more folks away from Canon with the "perfect" walk around lens.

Since Nikon already offers a 28-200 for about $320 it's not much of a stretch to 18-200 and they have proved that VR can be designed in to a moderately low cost lens with the 24-120 at around $500.

Maybe if this was an 18-200 VR f2.8-4 you could expect a big pricetag, but this lens is designed for pro-sumer DX cameras, so I would be real surprised if it runs higher than $700. Kind-of Nikons one-upmanship to Canons 17-85 IS USM.

Being a minimalist, when it comes to carrying equipment, I'm really hoping that this lens becomes the world class standard for 11X zooms. I held off buying the Sigma 18-200 expecting Nikon to respond in-kind. Sigma has demonstrated that the optical quality is achievable, so I would expect nothing short of that mark for this new Nikkor lens.

TheObiJuan
10-30-2005, 01:39 AM
I hope so too George.
This lens really is exciting.
It would be weird shooting N though.
:p

D70FAN
10-30-2005, 05:38 AM
I hope so too George.
This lens really is exciting.
It would be weird shooting N though.
:p

Only weird in the respect of having a few more options. One of the reasons I chose not to invest in the 20D, even though I liked shooting with it.

It is possible that we are building our hopes for the new lens beyond it's capability. Let's hope not.;)

tekriter
10-30-2005, 06:32 AM
In all of this discussion, one thing I haven't seen is an expected date of introduction. I'm about ready to pop for the Sigma 18-200, but the f6.3 makes me hesitate. So I've looked at the 70- or 80-200 2.8's from Sigma and Nikon, and just can't see carrying the weight. (Not to mention the $900)

If my cousins at Nikon can do this as a VR, topping out at 5.6, and sell it for $600 to $700 I'd forget all about the Sigma.

TheObiJuan
10-30-2005, 12:19 PM
Only weird in the respect of having a few more options. One of the reasons I chose not to invest in the 20D, even though I liked shooting with it.

It is possible that we are building our hopes for the new lens beyond it's capability. Let's hope not.;)

I am excited about the camera, especially if it DOES have the HSC mode, the lens is just icing on the cake.

D70FAN
10-30-2005, 05:17 PM
In all of this discussion, one thing I haven't seen is an expected date of introduction. I'm about ready to pop for the Sigma 18-200, but the f6.3 makes me hesitate. So I've looked at the 70- or 80-200 2.8's from Sigma and Nikon, and just can't see carrying the weight. (Not to mention the $900)

If my cousins at Nikon can do this as a VR, topping out at 5.6, and sell it for $600 to $700 I'd forget all about the Sigma.

The Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VR and 80-200 are both worth the extra weight. Both beautiful lenses. Just wish I could afford them. But luckily I can rent when needed. The 28-70 f/2.8 is also best in class, and unfortunately in the same price range (but again rent-able).

Patience may well pay off...

Rex914
10-30-2005, 07:31 PM
The non-IS 80-200 isn't actually so bad in pricing although it's still far from cheap. The average price is between $800 and $900, and there's even one store selling it for $820. That's nearly the same price as the Sigma version and a whole lot less than the Canon version which retails at the lowest at around $1100.


In all of this discussion, one thing I haven't seen is an expected date of introduction.

Knowing Nikon, we're looking at next year, but it would be to their advantage to have it ready and in stores by the end of November.

tekriter
10-30-2005, 07:39 PM
The Nikkor 70-200 f/2.8 VR and 80-200 are both worth the extra weight. Both beautiful lenses. Just wish I could afford them. But luckily I can rent when needed. The 28-70 f/2.8 is also best in class, and unfortunately in the same price range (but again rent-able).

Patience may well pay off...

I have no doubts about the quality, and even the value, of the Nikkors. But I can't afford them, either.

And as I mentioned in a thread a while back, we do not, in the St. Louis metro area, have a SINGLE dealer that carries Sigma equipment except the pathetic Wolf stores in the malls. And their prices are just awful, only matched by their poor selection. They do not carry the 18-200 for instance.

D70FAN
10-31-2005, 01:30 PM
I have no doubts about the quality, and even the value, of the Nikkors. But I can't afford them, either.

And as I mentioned in a thread a while back, we do not, in the St. Louis metro area, have a SINGLE dealer that carries Sigma equipment except the pathetic Wolf stores in the malls. And their prices are just awful, only matched by their poor selection. They do not carry the 18-200 for instance.

Again, you may have a camera store in your area that caters to professionals. Most metro areas do. So you have the option of renting the better lenses for occasions where you need them.

I have found that the stand-alone Wolf/Ritz stores are generally pretty good as is their selection, and their prices are only slightly higher than B&H or Norman Camera. The mall stores cater mainly to all-in-one and point-n-shoot buyers.

If you have none of the above stores, then B&H and Norman are probably your best bet.

Rex914
10-31-2005, 06:07 PM
I'm still a couple hours ahead of the official announcement. :D

http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13684

TheObiJuan
10-31-2005, 08:55 PM
Thanks Rex, that's great!

tekriter
11-01-2005, 10:02 AM
So now my next question is...

what does everyone think the street price of the 18-200VR will be? The list price has been announced as $699. I don't know the typical markup/markdown of the more reputable dealers.

Would it be out of line to think this lens might be available for, say, $549?

D70FAN
11-01-2005, 10:53 AM
So now my next question is...

what does everyone think the street price of the 18-200VR will be? The list price has been announced as $699. I don't know the typical markup/markdown of the more reputable dealers.

Would it be out of line to think this lens might be available for, say, $549?

My guess is that the $699 price will hold pretty solid if this lens gets good reviews, but Nikon might still put it in their rebate list (maybe $50).

Hopefully they learned a few things from the 24-120, and this lens will be up to it's introduction pairing with the D200. That doesn't mean it will be a kit lens, but some of the first shots we saw had the 18-200 attached to the 200D.

Again, if the 18-200 VR turns out to be good optically, then the pair would be a winning kit. So... Buy the "kit" for $2200? After rebate?

Oh yeah.

plumb
11-03-2005, 03:29 AM
In the UK the camera can be had for 1300 ( body only),orders are being placed for a December delivery here is a site that may be of intrest http://www.dcviews.com/cameras.htm