Nikon D200 vs. Canon 5D

[Esoterra]

This is not a Canon/Nikon bash fest, I just want some clarification. I was reading on Ken Rockwells site about the new D200 vs. 5D. I quote Ken:

"Popular Photography, on the bottom of the second column of page 70 of the December, 2005 issue says that at ISO 1,600 that the D2X and the D50 have BETTER noise performance than the 5D. The D200 is probably as good or better; which throws of Canon's oversized and overpriced sensor out the window. "

I'm curious as to exactly what tests they run to determine this. Also, most people shoot at ISO 100-400 range I would think, so why would that nullify the 5D's full frame sensor. Having full frame to me is well worth the having a little extra noise- if that is indeed the case! At this point the strongest advantage I see that the D200 has over the 5D is cost!

[coldrain]

Well, lets say Ken Rockwell is not really known for an unbiased (or knowledgable) view on things. Also Popular Photography comes up with very weird findings at times, as far as I have noticed.
So, I would not place too much value on what Ken Rockwell types up on his site. Ken Rockwell is to photography journalism what Paul Turrot is to computer journalism (he runs one of the biggest Microsoft fan sites).
Read it for amusement, not for real information. (He was even raving about the 55-200mm DX, and that may say something).

DPreview finds the D2X to have quite a bit more noise (luminance noise, "light/dark" noise),

while it is very close to the 5D in chroma noise (pixels get wrong colours).


The Canon EOS 5D performs very much like the 20D, itself not a very noisy camera. Ken will be Ken, imagine my surprise when he found the Canon EF-S f3.5-4.5 10-22mm USM to perform better than his Nikkor 12-24mm f4. I almost fell from my chair.

Also note that the 5D is not overpriced at all, full frame sensors are expensive. And the 5D is not full frame to have no noise, it is full fram to deliver full frame for who needs or wants full frame at a lower price point than ever before.

Oh, another thing... Ken Rockwell used to say (maybe still says) that a camera only is usable professionally if it has 1/500 flash sync. Funny that this only makes his camera usable professionally (the D70), and not the EOS 1D mk II N, 1Ds Mk II, D2X, 5D... oh well. Makes one wonder why he finds flash sync to 1/500 so important anyway. He just is a bit silly IMO.

[coldrain]

This is what letsgodigital.org had to say about the 5D's performance:
"What's more is the fact that the new Canon EOS 5D excels on noise and dynamic range. Moreover, ISO 3200 can be used perfectly for high quality prints and in light as well as dark areas the detail remains clearly visible. This is really impressive; you have to see it to believe it. The Canon 5D and the EOS-1D Mark II N are similar in this case. For the competitors it will be a hard nut to crack! "

[Esoterra]

See now this is type of information (graphs) that Ken Rockwell needs to have on his website if he is going to make comments like I quoted above- show me the numbers lol! Thanks for the info Coldrain. I am sure both the D200 and 5D are excellent cameras in their own right. I think its comparing apples to oranges at times.

[coldrain]

Yes, they both seem to be very nice cameras indeed.

[erichlund]

When Ken Rockwell forgets that he is the remote Nikon troll from heck** ;-), and puts on his pure teaching hat, some of the stuff that comes off his word processor isn't too bad. The rest of the time, I'll just say you have to read between the lines (if you even bother).

**One of the few people I know that gets other people to innocently troll for him. I wonder if he even knows the great battles he starts when he spews such junk on his site. He says all these things like he's an authority, and people take it as gospel.

[D70FAN]

Originally Posted by erichlund

When Ken Rockwell forgets that he is the remote Nikon troll from heck** ;-), and puts on his pure teaching hat, some of the stuff that comes off his word processor isn't too bad. The rest of the time, I'll just say you have to read between the lines (if you even bother).

**One of the few people I know that gets other people to innocently troll for him. I wonder if he even knows the great battles he starts when he spews such junk on his site. He says all these things like he's an authority, and people take it as gospel.

Like you said above some of his reviews are usable, and hopefully it's pretty obvious to most of us when he is going off the deep end.

You have to admit that it is pretty entertaining.

[coldrain]

Personally I find misinformation and twisting things not too entertaining. I do not like his style of writing either (and his website is a disaster to navigate and to the eyes).

[murrays]

Originally Posted by Esoterra

See now this is type of information (graphs) that Ken Rockwell needs to have on his website if he is going to make comments like I quoted above- show me the numbers lol! Thanks for the info Coldrain. I am sure both the D200 and 5D are excellent cameras in their own right. I think its comparing apples to oranges at times.

As an engineer, I like numbers and graphs as much as the next guy, but wouldn't you agree that you can't "measure" picture quality?

-murray

[sherlock]

Originally Posted by murrays

As an engineer, I like numbers and graphs as much as the next guy, but wouldn't you agree that you can't "measure" picture quality?

-murray

Hey,

Yea there is a difference between 'static' and 'dynamic' image quality. Static being what can be tested in a lab like what dpreview does, and dynamic being what you get everyday shooting in actual conditions. Ken has an article about this here. But you're right, image quality depends on the situation and the capabilities of the photographer more that the camera.


Andrew

P.S. I actually like Ken's site as a good source of information, buy yes, some of the things he says are a little over the top. You just need to know what stuff is his b.s. and what isn't.