Just when I thought I had decided the D70S

[Norm in Fujino]

Can we now see some of the wonderful photographic output? We all love to see the creativity and the inspiration in the finished product.

Hey, I'm still learning the controls!
Actually, I drove out today and will go out again tomorrow to do some shots of sakura and other flowers. I'll try and upload some shots in the next few days as I figure out what I'm doing. I'm shooting at SHQ right now as I test, but eventually plan to go to RAW--another learning curve.

[erichlund]

I suspect that most people don't know that sakura is in reference to cherry blossoms. It's an annual thing in Japan. I wouldn't know it but there was an article about it in today's paper (Orange County, CA, Register).

So, for those that went "Sakura?", that's what Norm is talking about.

Cheers,
Eric

[gary_hendricks]

^^^ so would I ;-)

- 30 years of complete lens compatibilty (still some great deals on bright high quality manual lenses on ebay)
- Good high ISO performance
- JPEG performance is better than Canon Shill reviews give it credit for! unless maybe you print to poster size, then use RAW mode
- Fantastic RAW performance
- Largest viewfinder in it class (a major point for me to get DSLR over prosumer was an optical viewfinder, so why settle with a crippled tunnel like optical viewfinder?)
- Sturdy build (full steel sub frame)
- Great Ergonomics
- 2" High resolution LCD screen to check/preview your shots
- Good quality kit lens (although Nikon and Oly do have this too)

OK thats the end of my Pentax sales pitch... ;-)

I suggest you go into a camera store and try all the cameras out, take a few shots, get a feel for the cameras. All the cameras have good picture quality in this class IMO, in which case build quality and usability are very important factors... See which ones feels best to use for YOU as your the one who has to live with it for the next X years... ;-)

There are plenty of great reasons here to go with what jeisner is saying! I think he really knows his stuff!

[D70FAN]

Seriously, other ppl may say other wise about the *ist DS, but it is a GREAT dslr if its ur first or fifth. i saw absolutely GREAT pictures taken from it. and it runs on either 4 AA batteries or cr-V3 rechargables, which is a great plus if u are on vacation for example and u run out of batteries, its obviously gonna be much easier to find AA's than some sort of lithium ion rechargable. some places have great deals on this camera too, such as: the body, 18-55 pentax lens and 70-300 quantaray lens for 899.99, or the body 18-55 pentax lens and a 70-300 pentax lens for 999.99. i would definately recomment this dslr.

Oddly enough, the D70 comes with a CR2 battery pack. CR2's are available almost everywhere. Fortunately the D70 can generally go for at least 800 shots before recharge, so 2 EN-EL3's will go quite a while.

Funny how most people never mention the CR2 pack in discussions.

[gabester]

There are plenty of great reasons here to go with what jeisner is saying! I think he really knows his stuff!

Yeah, jeisner indeed knows his stuff; those are most of the good points about Canon dSLRs. Another one is image smoothness. Don't let anyone dissuade you from buying the camera of your choice (and your choices are all good), even those with thousands of posts and are bent on evangelizing about the D70.

It's pretty sad when people have to put down other people's choices and preferences just to make themselves feel better or appear smarter. Or maybe it stems from paranoia regarding about some conspiracy against their favorite camera.

Of course anyone can say anything in this forum, but even in free-speech America you can still piss people off if you put down something that they like or love. We shouldn't be afraid to speak out against "experts" like that.

[jeisner]

Yeah, jeisner indeed knows his stuff; those are most of the good points about Canon dSLRs. Another one is image smoothness. Don't let anyone dissuade you from buying the camera of your choice (and your choices are all good), even those with thousands of posts and are bent on evangelizing about the D70.

I was referring to Pentax not Canon.... Canon 300/350 don't have a good number of those points ;-)

Such as:
- 30 years of complete lens compatibilty
- Large viewfinder
- Sturdy build (full steel sub frame)
- 2" High resolution LCD screen to check/preview your shots
- Good quality kit lens (although Nikon and Oly do have this too)

[D70FAN]

Yeah, jeisner indeed knows his stuff; those are most of the good points about Canon dSLRs. Another one is image smoothness. Don't let anyone dissuade you from buying the camera of your choice (and your choices are all good), even those with thousands of posts and are bent on evangelizing about the D70.

It's pretty sad when people have to put down other people's choices and preferences just to make themselves feel better or appear smarter. Or maybe it stems from paranoia regarding about some conspiracy against their favorite camera.

Of course anyone can say anything in this forum, but even in free-speech America you can still piss people off if you put down something that they like or love. We shouldn't be afraid to speak out against "experts" like that.

Spoken with the expertise we have grown to know and love. I'm sure that Jeisner will be thrilled to have your endorsement.

What exactly are you talking about? As before, just when I think that you might be a great contributor to the discussion here, you come out with some really off-the-wall comments.

If you have something to contribute... then fine. If all you want to do is spew contempt, then find a different forum. You are proving to be the antithesis of what you claim you dispise (without the thousands of posts).

I don't think that anyone with thousands of posts has ever "put down" any camera. We (with thousands of posts) will, of course try to suggest what we think are good choices, generally, and hopefully these are based on experience, not speculation.

So far (in your 37 posts) I haven't seen you contribute anything of relevance or value to this, or any other, forum. So this may be a good time to start.

It's ok for us to argue the merits of a particular camera vs. another that's the idea here. That is free speech. Also not necessarily unique to America.

I, and I think the majority of DCRP contributors, welcome ideas that contribute to the knowlege base of this or any other forum, and while I do not own or run this website, I have been around here long enough to know a piker from a contributor. The question is which do you want to be.

If it's the former, you might want to look elswhere.

[gabester]

Spoken with the expertise we have grown to know and love. I'm sure that Jeisner will be thrilled to have your endorsement.

Yeah, I made a mistake; I thought Jeisner was talking about the Canon. My bad. I still agree with him, though; the ist DS is an excellent compact camera; if I hadn't bought the XT I'd probably have bought that.

What exactly are you talking about? As before, just when I think that you might be a great contributor to the discussion here, you come out with some really off-the-wall comments. If you have something to contribute... then fine. If all you want to do is spew contempt, then find a different forum. You are proving to be the antithesis of what you claim you dispise (without the thousands of posts).

I think contempt is your domain, not mine. I don't think I've put down any camera in any of my 37 posts (read them all; it shouldn't take that much time). You on the other hand have put down the XT, apologized for it, promised not to do so anymore, then continued to do so in not-too-subtle digs. Here is some proof that you're still at it. Speaking of antithesis, your signature says "Once you go dSLR, you'll never go back"; however just in this thread you said "You have chosen wisely. But stop the Olympus nonsense" which I thought may have been insulting to Norm (of Fujino) since I know he agonized over this decision to purchase an E-300 and was almost apologetic that he was a "pariah" for doing so. Sure you had tons of smileys, but one can smiley and smiley and still be a villain.

I don't think that anyone with thousands of posts has ever "put down" any camera. We (with thousands of posts) will, of course try to suggest what we think are good choices, generally, and hopefully these are based on experience, not speculation. So far (in your 37 posts) I haven't seen you contribute anything of relevance or value to this, or any other, forum. So this may be a good time to start.

I thought you wouldn't get involved in any more pissing contests. So let's take your 2000 posts, subtract the ones where you advise people from buying certain cameras after having 15 minutes (or zero minutes) experience with them, then further subtract posts of questionable technical expertise (like this one in which you state that "the slightly smaller sensor on Canon dSLR's have this effect (of image edge softness)), and what are you left with?

It's ok for us to argue the merits of a particular camera vs. another that's the idea here. That is free speech. Also not necessarily unique to America.

No argument there; I also realize that free speech is not unique to America. It just happens that most of the forum participants seem to be from here. However, as an overzealous evangelist for the D70 it has become apparent that you have clouded your judgement enough to exhibit prejudice against many very fine cameras which people look up to you to advise them on. I may be perhaps one of the first to bring this up, but I assure you that I am not the only one here who has been offended by you.

I, and I think the majority of DCRP contributors, welcome ideas that contribute to the knowlege base of this or any other forum, and while I do not own or run this website, I have been around here long enough to know a piker from a contributor. The question is which do you want to be.
If it's the former, you might want to look elswhere.

I may never surpass your contributions here. Admittedly, you are an excellent photographer and your technical know-how has more or less been pretty sound. However, I feel that the question should be rephrased as follows:

"You (George Riehm), as a person of great prominence here on the DC Resource Forums, can exercise your influence on the rest of us (especially impressionable newbies struggling to find the right camera) either wantonly or wisely: you can perpetuate your tiresome sell-everyone-on-the-D70-at-all-costs tirade or you can respect the careful choices people have made in buying expensive cameras that are important to them and are an extension of their personal creativity. Which do you choose?"

Finally, I am willing to bury the hatchet and start afresh with you if you are willing to consider that you may have offended people here. You have already acknowledged doing this in the past; the onus is on you to hold true to your promise to stop doing so. In return, I will stop singling you out as someone whose prejudice is detrimental to the open exchange of ideas here and I will again look forward to reading your posts with great interest and a willingness to learn - as I once used to.

[D70FAN]

Yeah, I made a mistake; I thought Jeisner was talking about the Canon. My bad. I still agree with him, though; the ist DS is an excellent compact camera; if I hadn't bought the XT I'd probably have bought that.



I think contempt is your domain, not mine. I don't think I've put down any camera in any of my 37 posts (read them all; it shouldn't take that much time). You on the other hand have put down the XT, apologized for it, promised not to do so anymore, then continued to do so in not-too-subtle digs. Here is some proof that you're still at it. Speaking of antithesis, your signature says "Once you go dSLR, you'll never go back"; however just in this thread you said "You have chosen wisely. But stop the Olympus nonsense" which I thought may have been insulting to Norm (of Fujino) since I know he agonized over this decision to purchase an E-300 and was almost apologetic that he was a "pariah" for doing so. Sure you had tons of smileys, but one can smiley and smiley and still be a villain.



I thought you wouldn't get involved in any more pissing contests. So let's take your 2000 posts, subtract the ones where you advise people from buying certain cameras after having 15 minutes (or zero minutes) experience with them, then further subtract posts of questionable technical expertise (like this one in which you state that "the slightly smaller sensor on Canon dSLR's have this effect (of image edge softness)), and what are you left with?



No argument there; I also realize that free speech is not unique to America. It just happens that most of the forum participants seem to be from here. However, as an overzealous evangelist for the D70 it has become apparent that you have clouded your judgement enough to exhibit prejudice against many very fine cameras which people look up to you to advise them on. I may be perhaps one of the first to bring this up, but I assure you that I am not the only one here who has been offended by you.



I may never surpass your contributions here. Admittedly, you are an excellent photographer and your technical know-how has more or less been pretty sound. However, I feel that the question should be rephrased as follows:

"You (George Riehm), as a person of great prominence here on the DC Resource Forums, can exercise your influence on the rest of us (especially impressionable newbies struggling to find the right camera) either wantonly or wisely: you can perpetuate your tiresome sell-everyone-on-the-D70-at-all-costs tirade or you can respect the careful choices people have made in buying expensive cameras that are important to them and are an extension of their personal creativity. Which do you choose?"

Finally, I am willing to bury the hatchet and start afresh with you if you are willing to consider that you may have offended people here. You have already acknowledged doing this in the past; the onus is on you to hold true to your promise to stop doing so. In return, I will stop singling you out as someone whose prejudice is detrimental to the open exchange of ideas here and I will again look forward to reading your posts with great interest and a willingness to learn - as I once used to.

I don't think that there is any question as to my bias in favor of the D70, and the same is absolutely true for the 20D. And I will be the first to admit that I think that these are great cameras. But I don't think that I have ever recommended a camera that was not a worthwhile investment. So you can look at these a "safe" recommendations. Or the chickens way out.

I don't think that anyone buying a D70 (or a 20D) would be unhappy. I can't necessarily say that about other dSLR's. Again, I removed all of the negative references to the XT, because they just seemed to touch a nerve, and that really wasn't my purpose. Anyway they were based on a brief (actually about 45 minutes total) exposure, which was not the way to evaluate a camera.

You are right though, just because I think the XT is not the best value, doesn't mean it isn't. There's that opinion thing again.

Bottom line is: I have a lot of experiences (good and bad) with digital cameras. I have made a lot of expensive mistakes along the way and what I hope to do is help guide people away from making the same mistakes (if I have the personal knowlege and experience to do so).

Like all of you out there I know a lot about some things and a little about others. Hopefully I can share the things I know a lot about, and learn from others on things where I know a little. That's why I like the DCRP.

I actually hoped that I had burried the hatchet when I deleted the XT comments, but apparently you would like for me to completely compromise my better judgement and not ever mention the D70 (or 20D?) again. It isn't going to happen.

So my suggestion is: Keep criticizing me, or do something constructive and add your knowlege to the database so you can counter my opinions. Post pictures, and recommendations based on what you know, and not what you hear. Believe it or not I am very open minded, I do make mistakes, and will change my opinion when proven wrong. So prove me wrong.

The best way to burry the hatchet is to contribute to the knowlege of the group, not carry on some tirade against me personally. I'm sure that in the 2000+ posts here I have made some mistakes. Hopefully not many. If you feel like digging them up, I'm sure that we would all be entertained.

[gabester]

I don't think that there is any question as to my bias in favor of the D70, and the same is absolutely true for the 20D. And I will be the first to admit that I think that these are great cameras. But I don't think that I have ever recommended a camera that was not a worthwhile investment. So you can look at these a "safe" recommendations. Or the chickens way out.

I don't think that anyone buying a D70 (or a 20D) would be unhappy. I can't necessarily say that about other dSLR's. Again, I removed all of the negative references to the XT, because they just seemed to touch a nerve, and that really wasn't my purpose. Anyway they were based on a brief (actually about 45 minutes total) exposure, which was not the way to evaluate a camera.

You are right though, just because I think the XT is not the best value, doesn't mean it isn't. There's that opinion thing again.

Bottom line is: I have a lot of experiences (good and bad) with digital cameras. I have made a lot of expensive mistakes along the way and what I hope to do is help guide people away from making the same mistakes (if I have the personal knowlege and experience to do so).

Like all of you out there I know a lot about some things and a little about others. Hopefully I can share the things I know a lot about, and learn from others on things where I know a little. That's why I like the DCRP.

I actually hoped that I had burried the hatchet when I deleted the XT comments, but apparently you would like for me to completely compromise my better judgement and not ever mention the D70 (or 20D?) again. It isn't going to happen.

So my suggestion is: Keep criticizing me, or do something constructive and add your knowlege to the database so you can counter my opinions. Post pictures, and recommendations based on what you know, and not what you hear. Believe it or not I am very open minded, I do make mistakes, and will change my opinion when proven wrong. So prove me wrong.

The best way to burry the hatchet is to contribute to the knowlege of the group, not carry on some tirade against me personally. I'm sure that in the 2000+ posts here I have made some mistakes. Hopefully not many. If you feel like digging them up, I'm sure that we would all be entertained.

George, you're still missing the point. I'm not suggesting that you stop promoting the D70 (or 20D); I'm asking you to cease sniping at other people's choice in cameras. As far as I know you're the only person of influence doing that there. If I'm way out of line and being unreasonable to you (or have, as you suggested, contributed nothing here), others should speak up. Then again if there is a kernel of truth in what I am complaining about, people should also voice their opinion to that effect. If it does appear that I'm speaking out of my rear end, or being a troublemaker just for the hell of it then I'll back off; no questions asked. However, we need to get the opinions of third parties, lest we debate this ad nauseum.

As for posting pictures here I'm in no rush to do so; I'll post when I'm ready. Most of my 20 Gigs of pics are still with P&S cameras and I'm not entirely confident about my skill as a photographer. As for proving you wrong, that was never my goal; I just want you to realize that some of us treasure their cameras and don't enjoy having someone who hasn't spent enough time with them constantly criticizing them. I feel that most of us would appreciate it if your emphasis was placed more on bringing up a camera's good points than dismissing it based on scant experience or evidence. How would your wife or girlfriend of 20 years like it if a woman you dated for a week bad-mouthed you to everyone?