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Thread: Help!!!!

  1. #1
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    Help!!!!

    should i buy the sony f828 or the nikon coolpix 8700???
    please help me with any usefull comments, i need the camera for graphic design and for larger prints!
    thanks.
    charles.

  2. #2
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    Smile The Sony 828 and the Nikon 8700

    I have had some difficult experience with 8mp digital cameras. Very early on, I purchased a Nikon 8700 hoping that I would see a huge difference in the quality of the digital photos produced. That was not the case at all.

    My 5mp digital cameras produced equal or better digital photos. As the months passed, it became rather clear that of all the 8mp digital cameras, Olympus, with their C-8080 had produced the best results.

    As late as yesterday, I compared digital photos from the Nikon 8700 against a newly acquired Fuji E-550, a 6mp digital camera costing $US 340. The Fuji E-550 easily cleaned house on four different test digital photos.

    It is of course your money and your decision. As for me personally, I would not put any more money into an 8mp digital camera.

    Sarah Joyce
    Last edited by speaklightly; 08-21-2004 at 10:00 AM.

  3. #3
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    Re: Help!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by charles
    should i buy the sony f828 or the nikon coolpix 8700???
    please help me with any usefull comments, i need the camera for graphic design and for larger prints!
    thanks.
    charles.
    As usual, Sarah Joyce speaks with great wisdom. I'd suggest though, that you might want to take a look at dSLRs, such as the Canon dRebel, the Nikon D70, or even the new Canon 20D camera, all of which are not that far out of the price range of the two fixed-lens cameras you mentioned, but any of the dSLRs would give you clean picture quality for very large prints (you didn't say how large), and even with a lens, the starting price would be in your ballpark, especially if you're going to be doing professional-level work with your camera.
    Let a be your umbrella!

  4. #4
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    thanks sarah and john, but....

    thanks a lot to you both sarah and john. u both make me think about my options. when i said that i need the camera for larger prints i was thinking at least 20 x 30 inches. now im thinking about the d70 that a friend of my just bought.
    but isnt the amount of mega pixels related to the large of the print area?
    for example the fine pic with coolpix 8700 has a resolution of 3264 x 2448 (8MP), while the fine pic with the nikon d70 (6MP) has a resolution of 3008 x 2000....
    does this affect to the larger prints?
    thanks again for your time and i give you both my respect.
    charles.

  5. #5
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    Smile Nikon 8700 versus the Nikon D-70

    Charles-

    The key to this discussion is understanding the CCD size in each of these digial cameras. Because the 8700 has a physically smaller CCD, even though it is 8mp, it will produce LESS photo and print quality than the D-70 that has 6mp.

    This happens because the digital photo and print quality on the D-70 is made much better and cleaner due to the fact that it uses a physically larger CCD.

    It all has to do with the actual size of each individual pixel.

    Sarah Joyce

  6. #6
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    Re: Help!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by charles
    thanks a lot to you both sarah and john. u both make me think about my options. when i said that i need the camera for larger prints i was thinking at least 20 x 30 inches. now im thinking about the d70 that a friend of my just bought.
    but isnt the amount of mega pixels related to the large of the print area?
    for example the fine pic with coolpix 8700 has a resolution of 3264 x 2448 (8MP), while the fine pic with the nikon d70 (6MP) has a resolution of 3008 x 2000....
    does this affect to the larger prints?
    thanks again for your time and i give you both my respect.
    charles.
    To make a photo 30 inches wide, printing at 200 pixels/inch, neither one of those cameras will cut it directly. At that pixel density, the 8700 would support a 16 inch width, while the d70 would support only a 15 inch width. In either case, you'd have to interpolate (create) pixels to have enough image data to seamlessly cover a 30 inch width. The difference is, with the D70, you'd be starting with a clean, noise-free image, and with the 8700, your base image would be noisier, particularly if the photo is shot in dim lighting conditions requiring higher ISOs. Personally, I'd take the cleaner base image myself. What percentage of shots will you be printing at 30 X 20, by the way? There are also cameras with even larger sensors like the Kodak/Nikon thing, also more expensive, but it has a 14MP sensor, the same size as a 35mm slide. If your everyday work involves prints that size, could be something you ought to consider as well.
    Let a be your umbrella!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Reed
    To make a photo 30 inches wide, printing at 200 pixels/inch, neither one of those cameras will cut it directly. At that pixel density, the 8700 would support a 16 inch width, while the d70 would support only a 15 inch width. In either case, you'd have to interpolate (create) pixels to have enough image data to seamlessly cover a 30 inch width. The difference is, with the D70, you'd be starting with a clean, noise-free image, and with the 8700, your base image would be noisier, particularly if the photo is shot in dim lighting conditions requiring higher ISOs. Personally, I'd take the cleaner base image myself. What percentage of shots will you be printing at 30 X 20, by the way? There are also cameras with even larger sensors like the Kodak/Nikon thing, also more expensive, but it has a 14MP sensor, the same size as a 35mm slide. If your everyday work involves prints that size, could be something you ought to consider as well.
    I looked at getting more megapixels when I looked at getting a new camera. I did think about getting a D70 or a D300 but would have had to buy lenses on top. I decided to go for an all-in-one. Then I looked at the prices. For the price I'd have paid for a Nikon 8700, I'd have almost bought a D70 or I could have had a D300. In the end I went for a Canon S1 at 3 megapixels. My reasoning was thus:

    I wanted a long zoom, to print to A4 and I wanted to use my existing Compact Flash and to use AA batteries.

    While a dSLR would have offered me larger pictures and more options, I'd have had to lump around a lot more kit. I also didn't *need* the extra image size. Having said that, I looked at the price difference between the dSLRs and the 8mp long-zooms and saw no reason to waste my time and money on something that was almost a dSLR but wasn't really. They seemed a bit catch-penny. I'd rather save for a little longer and buy a dSLR than an 8mp wannabe dSLR.

    In the end I went for the S1 because it gives me everything I need (except for the Nikon badge) at a much lower cost than anything else.

  8. #8
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    help2

    hi.
    thank again for your time.
    now. considering i need larger prints what could be my options....
    i need to keep high quality photos and the less noise as possible.
    and i trully want to know what do u think about the sony f828?? is it that bad that nobody mentioned this one?
    once again i also had been thinking about the nikon d70, canon digital rebel (300d) which are 6 mp but i read has exc. image quailty.......... but will this affect my larger prints????
    thanks for your replys!
    charles.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by charles
    once again i also had been thinking about the nikon d70, canon digital rebel (300d) which are 6 mp but i read has exc. image quailty.......... but will this affect my larger prints????
    Sarah and John have already given you an answer to this question, but I'll rephrase it. Yes, the lower resolution available with the D70 and Canon 300d will affect larger prints, relative to an 8 megapixel camera. The 8 MP cameras will be able to produce a more detailed image. However, as John pointed out, even an 8 MP camera doesn't have enough pixels to create a top-quality 20 x 30 inch print. Also, the large sensors available in a digital SLR produce MUCH cleaner (less noisy) images than the smaller sensors in a prosumer camera like the Sony f828, Olympus C-8080, or the other models you mentioned.

    Unless you want to hang your photos in a museum, you can make good-looking (but not perfect) large prints with either an 8 MP prosumer or a 6 MP dSLR. The 8 MP cameras will have more detail, and the dSLRs will have less noise. Which direction you go is up to you.

    The Sony f828 is a good camera. If you want to get some more opinions on the current crop of 8 MP cameras, DPReview has reviewed them all in great detail (go to the end of each review for a quick summary). Also, The Luminous Landscape has published a comparison from a professional photographer's point of view.

    Hope that helps.
    OLYMPUS C-5060

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Miller
    Sarah and John have already given you an answer to this question, but I'll rephrase it. Yes, the lower resolution available with the D70 and Canon 300d will affect larger prints, relative to an 8 megapixel camera. The 8 MP cameras will be able to produce a more detailed image. However, as John pointed out, even an 8 MP camera doesn't have enough pixels to create a top-quality 20 x 30 inch print. Also, the large sensors available in a digital SLR produce MUCH cleaner (less noisy) images than the smaller sensors in a prosumer camera like the Sony f828, Olympus C-8080, or the other models you mentioned.

    Unless you want to hang your photos in a museum, you can make good-looking (but not perfect) large prints with either an 8 MP prosumer or a 6 MP dSLR. The 8 MP cameras will have more detail, and the dSLRs will have less noise. Which direction you go is up to you.

    The Sony f828 is a good camera. If you want to get some more opinions on the current crop of 8 MP cameras, DPReview has reviewed them all in great detail (go to the end of each review for a quick summary). Also, The Luminous Landscape has published a comparison from a professional photographer's point of view.

    Hope that helps.

    There's not a great difference between 8 and 6 mp.
    At 144dpi (my preferred setting) we have:
    8 megapixels = 3266 x 2450 pixels or 22 x 17 inches
    6 megapixels = 2828 x 2121 pixels or 19 x 14 inches

    As you can see - not a lot of difference. Perhaps 3 inches on height and on width?

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