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Thread: Photokino

  1. #31
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    Red face Crystal mud

    I have made it quite clear where I am having issues with a lot of this. I mean a person would probably have to be a veritable moron not to be able to get it straight from the written text I have presented ... or at the very least, be able to hear and interpret the gist of the exchange.

    Going over the minutia serves no real purpose, because it is the approach that is the problem, not the attempted solutions that are being supplanting in all the stores. You can point to this and that, it is looking looking for the forest through the trees ... you just missed the point.

    Rooz ... I think that is where we are at this juncture. A truly unhappy ending and no further along at solving this than when we started. I prefer MILK & CREAM in separate decanters ... you seem to be voting for Half&Half in just the one. So it goes ... Photokina is over.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 09-25-2010 at 04:38 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    I have made it quite clear where I am having issues with a lot of this.
    no, you havent. you've made incorrect, hysterical and misleading statements. here are some of them...

    increased workload: FALSE.

    heaping "nonsensical drama" into your camera's workload: HUH ? and FALSE.

    wrecking 100% of your work: FALSE.

    and mix that with a bunch of other rhetoric like...the fact that this isnt "purist" or my personal fave...not burdening people with the choice of using a dslr to take video. i mean this is laughable ! lol

    then you claim there are better tools to do the job but you arent prepared to answer what video cameras can take low light video like a dslr or use wide angle glass or get the subject isolation...all unanswered...

    plenty of entertainment value in your posts Don...but not a single valid point in sight. not even ONE.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    you seem to be voting for Half&Half in just the one.
    see what i mean...another FALSE statement. adding video to dslr has not comprimsed the photo taking ability of the dslr AT ALL. how has the 5dMkII or 7D been comprimised as photographic tools ? (and i suspect the d7000 will up the ante again), they are both brilliant at what they do photographically. the SLT's MAY be half-half...but thats yet to be proven. from what i read they do both photo and video pretty darn well. so again...if you dont want me to address these false statements...stop making them. here's an idea...think before you post.
    Last edited by Rooz; 09-25-2010 at 06:50 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Exclamation The gaunlet is tossed ...

    Okay, you won't do it, mate ... so, I will.

    I went and got a Nikon D3 (12.1 MP), a Nikkor AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8 G ED, Nikkor AF-S VR 70-200mm f/2.8 G ED and the Nikkor AF 50mm f/1.4 D

    AND ...

    They're off!

    I, personally, am tired of trying to make you see the light ... so I shall ed-ja-macate myself and will attempt to learn and talk Nikon-speak at ya! I have no idea how this may end ... but, I have always been one to go the extra ... millimeter.


    I guess this will wind up in the "Who cares?" part of history, huh?

    I did notice that the lens twist on in "reverse fashion." That will take a little getting use to ... also the vertical grip is welded to the Nikon, where the SONY's VG-C90AM comes right off ... for those tight spots. .
    Last edited by DonSchap; 09-28-2010 at 01:52 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  4. #34
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    all you had to do was admit you were wrong Don. i'm truly touched you would go to this level...at least you get to use a decent system though so we're both winners.
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  5. #35
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    Good idea Don. Then when you make your decision, you can just give me the "Looser" I wouldn't mind working with a "lesser" brand of equipment
    Joe Holmes
    Sony α550
    Sony HVL-F42AM Flash
    Sony DT18-55 F3.5-5.6 (Kit Lens)
    Minolta Maxxum 50 1:1.7(22) Prime
    Minolta 35-70 F4 (Mini Beercan)
    Minolta 70-210 F4 (Beercan)
    Minolta 28-135 F4-4.5 (This beast is pretty heavy)
    Minolta Maxxum 100-200 F4.5
    Quantaray D28-90 1:3.5-5.6 Ver 5
    Tamron DiII 55-200 1:4.5-6

  6. #36
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    Exclamation DSLRs with Video is here to stay

    A completely subjective observation, but I absolutely realized yesterday that DSLRs with video are here to stay as I walked by two different movie productions in downtown LA each with multiple set ups of Canon DSLRs in video rigs. As I think back, I would say that in the past several months, each time I've seen a movie production in operation, there has been at least one DSLR set up to shoot video.
    Darin Wessel
    α 900
    Zooms: Tamron SP AF70-200mm f2.8 Di LD Macro; Sigma 28-90mm D macro, Konica-Minolta 18-70 f3.5-5.6
    Primes: Minolta 28mm f2.8; Sony 50mm f1.4
    Minolta RC-1000 remote commander

    Film:
    Calumet Cambo CC400 4x5 View Camera
    YashikaMat 6x6 TLR (other accessories)
    Minolta Maxxum 7000 w/ Minolta 35-80mm f/4-5.6 & Minolta 2800 flash
    Minolta Maxxum 5000i & Vivitar 728 AFM flash
    What's next???

  7. #37
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    Thumbs down The heat is on ...

    Well, the α77 better bring a less "toasty" solution to the party or SONY sure is not going have much of a role in this.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Okay, you won't do it, mate ... so, I will.

    I went and got a Nikon D3 (12.1 MP), a Nikkor AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8 G ED, Nikkor AF-S VR 70-200mm f/2.8 G ED and the Nikkor AF 50mm f/1.4 D

    AND ...

    They're off!

    I, personally, am tired of trying to make you see the light ... so I shall ed-ja-macate myself and will attempt to learn and talk Nikon-speak at ya! I have no idea how this may end ... but, I have always been one to go the extra ... millimeter.

    I did notice that the lens twist on in "reverse fashion." That will take a little getting use to ... also the vertical grip is welded to the Nikon, where the SONY's VG-C90AM comes right off ... for those tight spots. .
    I don't see how this is a solution to anything, or what it has to do with the multipage conversation going on here. All of these systems are perfectly capable of taking excellent images. Pitting a Nikon against your Sonys isn't going to change one opinion here, with the exception of yours maybe.

    Most of everything Rooz has said here is not "Nikon speak" but "photo speak". The trouble comes when you spout a bunch of nonsense as fact with a bent toward Sony in every instance. If you'd just go out and take photographs and prove your system instead of pontificating childishly about silliness there would be very little to discuss here.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  9. #39
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    Lightbulb The fun of photography

    Jim,

    You simply have to relax and realize ... oh, I'm in SONY-land. If I wanted to go generic, the General DSLR Forum would probably get it done.

    Photokina is the presentation portion of the manufacturing cycle. With it being in Europe, obviously there is a lot of reliance on the European market to "make the call."

    The annual PMA seems to be kind of a "blow off" event for SONY, usually. Okay, the 3xx and 5xx were displayed there ... but they were totally expected from the CES Show that prior January. Oh, the a900 model showed up there one or two years, as a prototype, but then SONY usually pops the real thing at Photokina, as was the case when the a900 was "formally" introduced, back in 2008.

    Obviously, CES 2011 is the next BIG show on the list of electronic announcements. I have always felt they lose Christmas sales by doing that, especially, now that people have learned to anticipate it.

    Now, despite the awkward, strange suggestions or complaints that follow these introductions, the simple fact remains ... nothing solid can be relied upon from this show.

    The old guard or Minoltans are still awaiting their "king of the hill" camera, which will deliver true DSLR operation and not some misdirected, through-the-mirror, set-your-camera-on-fire Full Frame video.

    Opting to use the translucent mirror for high-speed fps is one thing. That is a compromise for serious still capture .. and people realize it. Having the mirror do both in-place and the standard mirror-lift to allow true OVF pentaprism operation is always going to be the best solution.

    I mean, it does seem simple enough ... and it really deflated my expectation when SONY did not drop that shoe into the ring. They would have cleaned everyone's clock. It is clear Nikon had nothing or did not feel threatened ... and Canon simply turned their camera into cheap plastic!

    My exploration of the Nikon D3 is to help me understand Nikon DSLR operation and what they have been up in Full Frame. It is a quick comparison without running out and having to acquire their newest toy on the market. The D3 basically is of the same genre as the a850 ... and taken together ... might reveal the future design of the Full Frame DSLR, something I would love to see at these shows, other than blocks of wood shaped like future cameras. I mean, at least hollow them out so you can see through them.

    Despite what people say, DSLR video is still problematic ... and for the few times you are going to use it, as a consumer ... not worth degrading your images with a 100% through-the-mirror imaging, but then again, that's the fun of photography ...
    • raising the bar ...
    • learning,
    • then lowering it back down to the basics.


    Despite the recent SONY improvement in the EVF, it still is an undesirable facet to most advanced photographers. The words "Get REAL!" still mean something to these folks and to those seriously learning the craft.

    Canon struggled with and abandoned the pellicle-mirror design ... again, they did not offer enough optional movement to make it work. Engineering short-sightedness? Not enough R&D? Marketing? It was an earlier time, to be sure.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 09-30-2010 at 05:11 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post

    Despite what people say, DSLR video is still problematic ... and for the few times you are going to use it, as a consumer ... not worth degrading your images with a 100% through-the-mirror imaging.
    Don, lets not go down this path again buddy.

    DSLR does not use translucent mirrors so there is NO degredation to IQ at all. in fact there is no evidence that the translucent mirrors effect IQ perceptibley either so this is a moot point notwithstanding the fact that it isnt even relevent to dslr.
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