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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Thumbs up I hear ya ... big time!

    Quote Originally Posted by TenD View Post
    You have to have at least a 645 to have any kind of decent IQ DSLRs are nothing but expensive rear lens caps. I can't believe anyone would want to shoot anything without at least a 110 size sensor. Sheesh!
    You are so right, Jim ... and we are investigating the Mamiya 645 AFD III as you speak! A pricey devil it is, too ($3990 @ B&H). That will separate the men from the toy-boys, eh?

    Heck, the "normal" 80mm f/4 lens runs around $1300.

    What's that? Don't have the stomach for it?

    That just got you operating with film, my friend. The DM-22 digital back for this beast is $8000! That's the cheap one. They have no problem at all scooting up past $30,000 for the current DM-56!

    Hey, Jim! Whadda say? Let's get two!
    Last edited by DonSchap; 05-14-2010 at 02:48 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    God's Country - Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Well, I happen to be more interested in "better" photography and this little honey is not a step in that direction.
    no, actually you're not. you're interested in the gear and the gear alone.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  3. #23
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    Feb 2006
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    Exclamation Gear, you say? Oh, for Pete's sake

    The only problem I can see with having a lot of gear is ... well, it can get kind of heavy ... and yeah, you have to keep it straight, organized ... (heck, inventoried).

    My regret is that I do not have every example of glass so I can switch between them and get my answers. I have to count on others ... and that makes me ... irritable.

    More often than not, the specific information I seek is not easily obtained. Oh, it is definitely better than years ago, but if you can get the "straight skinny", I figure that is kind of cool, too.

    It is one thing to have someone tell you about Jupiter ... it is quite another thing to actually see it for yourself, in the night sky.

    GEAR UP!
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    1,760
    what do you want to know about?

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    God's Country - Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    The only problem I can see with having a lot of gear is ... well, it can get kind of heavy ... and yeah, you have to keep it straight, organized ... (heck, inventoried).

    My regret is that I do not have every example of glass so I can switch between them and get my answers. I have to count on others ... and that makes me ... irritable.
    everything sony does makes you irritable. glass takes too long, service is crap, glass is too heavy, glass is too expensive, not enuf options, sensor isnt good enuf...and on and on and on. i wonder why you bothered switching to begin with cos no matter what system you choose nothings going to be good enuf for you.

    i'll cut to the chase for you and save you alot of heartache:

    1. sony is not currently aiming at the top end nor do they produce products that are the equivalent of that top end. sony have aimed fairly and squarely at the amateur and bottom end of the hobbyist market. they compete on PRICE not on image quality.

    2. if you want great glass its going to be heavy and pricey...you get what you pay for.

    3. if you want sony's range of glass to increase you will have to be patient. they are still new to the market.

    4. EVIL cameras are a godsend to most dslr users who want a small interchangable lens take-anywhere camera. sony, rightly so, have entered the market with a bang. probably, (yet to be seen though), the best aps-c compact EVIL camera around.

    5. if you want top end IQ, time to sell up and go to nikon or canon.

    sony produce products that for their market are the ideal system. in body IS, lots of MP and they are cheap. thats what the bottom-middle end wants and thats what sony is doing. their issue isnt actually the top end you discuss at all. the problem is that canon have trounced all of the opposition in that bottom end. their new rebel line is superb.

    so really, you're "strategy" couldnt be worse. make a superb top end camera and you are not only aiming at a tiny market but you are also aiming for a market thats well and truly dominated by the big two. very little ROR.

    what they really need is to make their cheaper models work better. i see the NEX as phase one of that and i personally think its extremely intelligent. nikon sure as hell havent managed it but nikon are slowly moving to a premium product type of company; i dont think sony has that luxury.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  6. #26
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    Nov 2004
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    Wild, Wonderful, Wyoming
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    You are so right, Jim ... and we are investigating the Mamiya 645 AFD III as you speak! A pricey devil it is, too ($3990 @ B&H). That will separate the men from the toy-boys, eh?

    Heck, the "normal" 80mm f/4 lens runs around $1300.

    What's that? Don't have the stomach for it?

    That just got you operating with film, my friend. The DM-22 digital back for this beast is $8000! That's the cheap one. They have no problem at all scooting up past $30,000 for the current DM-56!

    Hey, Jim! Whadda say? Let's get two!
    So what you are saying is that as long as it costs what you think it should cost, then that is the system of choice. My aren't you arrogant.

    You just don't get it. It's about taking photographs, Don. How you get them is immaterial. Fine photographs can and will be taken with all manner of equipment. It's the final product that matters, and no one should care how it got there. It's like saying the Mona Lisa is bad painting because Leo used camels hair brushes instead of horse hair brushes(I have no idea what DaVinci used to paint the Mona Lisa just an example).
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  7. #27
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    Nov 2008
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    Monmouthshire, UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    ......... Their DSLRs haven't offered anything that makes them a better deal than the already well established makes. Unremarkable isn't a good thing..........
    Not true. They offered a hugely better deal to all us Minolta users with legacy glass.
    Unremarkable? In camera stabilisation, the best handling DSLR out there and a Class leading FF camera. When you consider the steep learning curve Sony faced when it took over the remnants of Minolta, I find that remarkable.

  8. #28
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    Nov 2008
    Location
    Monmouthshire, UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Well, I happen to be more interested in "better" photography and this little honey is not a step in that direction. Just think, for around the price of a a380 DSLR, you can actually worsen an equivalent shot from an A-mount lens and lose image stability, too. Go figure. Amazing, huh? Where's old tripod, anyway?
    Don, I don't know whether you are being deliberately obtuse or actually do simply fail to get it.
    These NEX cameras are not in competition with A-mount cameras. No way. Not in any shape or form. OK!
    It must have escaped your notice that image stability has moved into the lens.
    The Japanese tom-fool who put that 70-400mm on the NEX was having a laugh. Were you?
    Sony already said somewhere that the 70-400mm won't work on the NEX. I think the battery doesn't have enough juice to drive it, even if the contrast detect AF of the NEX were designed to work with the SSM motor, which it isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    So while you "interested-in-new-technology" bunch are playing games with this over-sized rear lens cap, I will be noisily wishing and hoping for a substantially improved-ISO/noise-reduced image with the World-class DSLR I originally bought to make use of the $2000 lens design. Although, once they do conjure up a decent ISO-5000 sensor, that will probably spell the end of the line for the big boy sales.
    Like I said, these NEX cameras are not in competition with the DSLR, they are simply better(different) P&S jobs.
    Gadget lovers will flock to it.
    Every Mum(Mom) with kids will want one for the HD Video.
    Event shooters will love it (until the Organisers cotton on).
    Estate agents (Realtors??) will all have one.
    People like us may (don't like the look of that menu system) be tempted to slip one in a pocket.
    Street photogs, backpackers, the list goes on ...

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    Lightbulb The Rule rules ...

    BUILD IT ... and THEY WILL COME.


    It's pretty simple.

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    SO BUILD IT!
    Last edited by DonSchap; 05-15-2010 at 07:23 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    4,173
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    BUILD IT ... and THEY WILL COME.
    Apparently Sony doesn't think enough will come to make any money. They're probably right, they do this sort of things for a living.

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