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  1. #31
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    Excuse me ... is there another Full Frame DSLR under $2000 (<- click here) running around, out there, that we did not know about?




    H-E-L-L-O ... Earth to whomever ... "nothing special"?

    What?

    Okay, Okay ... PONY up your $5200 (<- click here) or $6100 (<- click here) ... guess the $3200 or $4100 difference between them is (said sweetly) "just our imagination" and ... "nothing special."

    Hey, what planet are you from, by the way? The one I come from calls those kind of savings "serious money."

    It may be entry level, 24.6MP Full Frame imaging with Zeiss lenses, but not one other manufacturer has it.

    Please pay the "big bucks" at the Canon and Nikon counter. Thank you
    Last edited by DonSchap; 04-06-2010 at 10:07 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  2. #32
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    Dec 2006
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    God's Country - Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Excuse me ... is there another Full Frame DSLR under $2000 (<- click here) running around, out there, that we did not know about? H-E-L-L-O ... Earth to whomever ... "nothing special"?
    dont confuse special with cheap.
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  3. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Wild, Wonderful, Wyoming
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Excuse me ... is there another Full Frame DSLR under $2000 (<- click here) running around, out there, that we did not know about?




    H-E-L-L-O ... Earth to whomever ... "nothing special"?

    What?

    Okay, Okay ... PONY up your $5200 (<- click here) or $6100 (<- click here) ... guess the $3200 or $4100 difference between them is (said sweetly) "just our imagination" and ... "nothing special."

    Hey, what planet are you from, by the way? The one I come from calls those kind of savings "serious money."

    It may be entry level, 24.6MP Full Frame imaging with Zeiss lenses, but not one other manufacturer has it.

    Please pay the "big bucks" at the Canon and Nikon counter. Thank you
    Exactly what I speak of. Nice middle of the road FF DSLR that works. Pro, uh no. Cutting edge, uh no. Nice and safe, designed to sell bunches, the Sony effect in it's full glory.

    Didn't take long to turn your bitching into cheering did it?

    Oh and I should mention: There is nothing at all wrong with this. The Sony effect is a powerful thing. When confronted with several products most will buy the Sony because it means solid performance at a decent price. I own several Sony products, they perform very well.
    Last edited by TenD; 04-07-2010 at 08:44 AM.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  4. #34
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    Wink Let's keep it straight, shall we?

    You misread me ... I only meant to correct your "nothing special" attribute, I'm not cheering about where we are stuck for the moment. If all things were even ... perhaps ... but, that price simply cannot be beaten, even with your biggest stick. You can whack away for a long time for a cool $3100!

    Better get started, eh, Jim?
    Last edited by DonSchap; 04-07-2010 at 12:36 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  5. #35
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    Feb 2006
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    Des Plaines, IL
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    Lightbulb An anecdote ...

    In fact, just the other night, I got involved in an after-class discussion of the "initial costs" of getting into Full Frame photography and was happily surprised when most of the jaws dropped when I mentioned how much I paid for my FULL FRAME DSLR.

    “Under $2000? What kind?”

    I happily whipped out my 24.6 MP SONY α850 and quickly explained it.

    I then took the Vertical Grip off the camera and the oohs and ahhs continued, as the camera was reduced to a very light looking camera, instead of the horse-size you have to hold when using the other two manufacturer’s Full Frame DSLRs, with no choice in reduction whatsoever.

    “The Nikon and Canon are not even close in price!” someone added.

    I then raised my hand and offered my own explanation: that the SONY Full Frames (α850 3 fps & α900 5 fps) were one of the better kept “secrets”, because SONY will not advertise it, properly, in this country and the fact that they just shut down the closest store that actually handled the product, for whatever their reasoning was.

    I then offered some calculations on how, if you really had not dumped a lot of money into your photography, you might want to reallocate your funds and make use of the savings you would find by buying a much better pair of lenses, like the Zeiss 24-70mm f/2.8 and the SONY 70-200mm f/2.8 G SSM, with the glass totaling out to $3400.

    FULL FRAME & some HIGH QUALITY GLASS … for the same price as ONLY the Nikon D3s (12.1MP) body. You step it up to the Nikon D3X ... we're talking $6,200 to play with! That is a lot of superior glass and other stuff for your craft.

    I could see the wheels spinning. Students are notoriously poor.

    I offered the idea that: if you are going to this school, you obviously have a serious eye on what you want to do. If you cannot afford to go all out, SONY might be a bargain entry without a lot of sacrifice. You cannot get full frame results if you do not have a full frame rig. $2000 is a far cry from $5200.

    So, there it is … nothing special, just economics on the fly.

    Buy as you wish ... and good luck.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 04-07-2010 at 04:40 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  6. #36
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    Dec 2006
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    why are you comparing it to a d3s ? the d3s, d3, 1d etc are pro bodies. any comparisons in price should be drawn with a d700 and 5dmkII. but i suppose its the way the old saying goes...never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

    as for FF performance ? what performance exactly are you talking about ?
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
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  7. #37
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    FF ... is FF ... is, yep, FF. You figure out how you want it, but regardless ... count the change in your wallet and buy up. There is no fabrication ... just fact. Forget the D3s ... and let's step it up to the D3X (24.5MP), another $2300 more than the D3s.

    Based on B&H Retail Cost ...

    SONY Item
    SONY α850 (24.6MP) $1,999.99
    Sony SAL-70200G Zoom AF 70-200mm f/2.8 APO G(D) SSM $1,799.99
    Sony SAL-2470Z 24-70mm f/2.8 Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* $1,599.99
    Sony SAL-1635Z 16-35mm f/2.8 ZA SSM Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* $1,899.99

    SONY Total $7,299.96

    Canon Item
    EOS 1Ds Mk III (21.1MP) $6,114.95
    Canon Zoom Telephoto EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM $2,499.00
    Canon Zoom Wide Angle-Telephoto EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM $1,329.00
    Canon Zoom Super Wide Angle EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM $1,520.00

    Canon Total $11,462.95

    Nikon Item
    D3X (24.5MP) $7,469.95
    Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II $2,299.00
    Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED $1,739.95
    Nikon AF-S Zoom Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED $1,799.95

    Nikon Total $13,308.85

    Debate as you want ... my point is no matter how long you wander around the "Outback" ... the B/W of it all, the cheapest way to get into FF -> SONY! Get the shot and save!

    Welcome to the SONY forum!
    Last edited by DonSchap; 04-07-2010 at 05:02 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  8. #38
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Debate as you want ... my point is no matter how long you wander around the "Outback" ... the B/W of it all, the cheapest way to get into FF -> SONY! Get the shot and save!

    Welcome to the SONY forum!
    no one is suggesting its NOT the cheapest way. its also cheaper to buy a hyundai over a mercedes. what does that tell you ? that a hyundai is cheaper than a mercedes. that's all.

    your type of argument is one of those typical asinine sensationalist ones that i hear used against all high end consumer goods when compared to their cheaper and inferior cousins way down the price chain.

    "but you could buy 20 toyota corolla's to one bmw M5."

    my answer ? yeah...so what ?

    personally, i'm not interested in the cheapest. i'm interested in the best. but then again, thats cos i take photos. whats your reason ?
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  9. #39
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    Feb 2006
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    Des Plaines, IL
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    Red face I am not putting forth a rouse ...

    Being a student or a hobbyist often does not allow for using the most expensive flavor-of-the-week. Nor does it imply you have to have the hottest high-end equipment. Having Full Frame capability has an entry level ... and I am strongly suggesting that it is on SONY's back that you do it. Anything else, right now, is frighteningly expensive.

    If you are not making any coin with your equipment, the best route for the Full Frame experience is simply SONY. You can always sell the gear when you are done and spend all the money you want on the most expensive cost-per-print ever made.

    Again ... I am thinking you might be getting "too much sun", Mate. Try to get all of the rationale put forth and not just your often "selected" fun parts. I believe the entire context of the discussion is important.

    I also suggest we save our "billy big bucks" for the rough days ahead. I am certain there will be plenty of them to come.

    BTW: Have you looked at our post totals? Oh, where does the time go, eh?
    Last edited by DonSchap; 04-07-2010 at 05:54 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    326
    Don, it seems you can't make up your mind...
    You complain about Sony having a bunch of cheap, entry-level DSLRs, yet you hail them for having cheap, entry-level Full-Frame DSLRs. Isn't it the same thing, only one applies to APS-C sensors (granted, they have way too many of them now) and the other applies to Full-Frame?

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