Home News Buyers Guide About Advertising
 
 
 
   
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 68
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,557

    Thumbs down SONY's Backstage 101 - Closed!

    Yeah, the "open" SONY Digital Photography discussion forum is ...

    CLOSED! (<- click here)

    The discussions turned sour, as SONY steers away from the important aspects of digital photography and does not want to hear about its decisions from the masses. Political variations on the same old corporate nonsense. When you have a good thing going ... spoil it.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Guelph, Ontario
    Posts
    1,903
    About time. Those aholes weren't interested in listening to valuable input from the photographer anyway.
    They spent more time ignoring the tough questions!
    Canon EOS 7D

    flickr
    FLUIDR

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,557

    Thumbs down slapping forehead ...

    You are not going to get an argument out of me.

    One or two of my suggestions got adopted, like the sub-$2000 FF DLSR. They delivered it (α850) and I bought it, as I promised. Many others have done likewise. It was the proper price point for a camera of this type.

    Then, the training DSLR for the novice users ... they delivered it ... but "dumbed down" the α230, α330 and α380 designs to incorporate it. Huh? Just to introduce the α500 and α550. The "Marketing Department" screws everyone, again!

    Over and over, I continued to express the possibilities and needs that I had found lacking in the current camera designs.

    I mean, really simple solution stuff, like:
    1. High ISO noise improvement in the digital sensor, where even ISO-5000 would be a seamless and noiseless transition, allowing low light exposure in less than optimal conditions. It would easily allow common-use f/4-lenses to deliver f/1.8-aperture results. I mean, any idiot can see the need for that. Such a tremendous improvement to every lens in your bag! It would have saved everyone the need to buy any of the expensive Zeiss lenses and still get terrific lighting results with the simple third-party stuff. So, what gives?

    2. Allowing the camera to calculate and display DOF (Depth of Field) information to the user, for better image results, when they change off ANY ADI-enabled lens. Again, they ignored it. Simple idea, very doable, and it still sits unaddressed in any of the DSLR cameras.


    Oh, the list goes on.

    With this shutting down of their own forum, "Backstage 101", they apparently just do not want to hear or address any of it. We just have to MAKE dot BELIEVE and pony up for them continually addressing the wrong things, over and over and over. How many iterations is this now? I mean, getting it wrong this many times and thumbing their respective noses at the users ... just who do think they are ...? Canon?

    I ask myself, time and again, these days ... "HOW LONG does a company march down the wrong road before they realize they are in Timbuktu and not downtown Chicago?" WAKE UP, SONY. Ignoring us will not make the needs go away. It just shows the arrogance that big business has for those silly enough to get involved with them.

    Your adoring public beckons that you:
    1. BELIEVE US and
    2. MAKE dot DELIVER the goods.


    That's corporate-speak for "please your customer."
    Last edited by DonSchap; 04-01-2010 at 06:05 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
    Posts
    10,424
    lol @ you thinking that the sony conglomerate and model releases are influenced in any way by you, or in fact any forum discussion. please don. sony are just doing what they've always done. nothing more and nothing less. lots and lots of models, lots and lots of marketing hype...pretty good product.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,557
    I have spoken to members of the field staff ... and gotten a few response to my interests and plans. Lately though ... things are not as open as they were. It is almost like a cloud has settled in, since 2009. In its own way ... rather sad.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
    Posts
    10,424
    what on earth are you talking about Don ? lol
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Monmouthshire, UK
    Posts
    2,152
    Don's on his soapbox again.

    As I understand it Sony are switching the forum to be part of an established photo-sharing community and backdoor users were offered, when it was announced, the opportunity to participate in the formation of the new format. Whether the change will be for the better or worse remains to be seen but it's a bit late too complain if you chose not to be involved.

    As to your other two points ...
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    1. High ISO noise improvement in the digital sensor, where even ISO-5000 would be a seamless and noiseless transition, allowing low light exposure in less than optimal conditions. It would easily allow common-use f/4-lenses to deliver f/1.8-aperture results. I mean, any idiot can see the need for that. Such a tremendous improvement to every lens in your bag! It would have saved everyone the need to buy any of the expensive Zeiss lenses and still get terrific lighting results with the simple third-party stuff. So, what gives?

    2. Allowing the camera to calculate and display DOF (Depth of Field) information to the user, for better image results, when they change off ANY ADI-enabled lens. Again, they ignored it. Simple idea, very doable, and it still sits unaddressed in any of the DSLR cameras.
    The second definitely has merit and would be a welcome addition and I can't see that it would be all that difficult either given the in-camera processing power. There has been some talk that the A7xx mock-up was missing a DOF preview button, maybe that's the reason.

    Your first "high ISO" point is something else and a bit pie-in-the-sky in my view. It's one thing to use high iso as a means of boosting shutter speed in good lighting conditions, it's another thing when there is very little light; no amount of processing will turn your f4 lens into a f1.8 biggie, no matter which way you look at it. Simply put, the f4 lens will always feed 2 and a bit times fewer photons to the sensor than will the f1.8 lens, resulting in a much lower s/n ratio, requiring that much more amlplification and that much more noise reduction. What was it Sarah Palin said, "you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig underneath". That was putting her foot in it big time but none-the-less true.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,557

    Angry I sense ... no change

    I know what is going on with lensing and light transfer, Peter. My push to get better a S/N ratio out of the sensor was more to stimulate some thinking than a practical suggestion. I mean, ISO-5000, even with good lighting, still needs some serious cleaning up.

    Those of us who understand the "digital drawback" of electronic capture will read that and say, "Yeah, right." and laugh. Those who do not may look into it and learn about it, to see what is possible, right now ... and make their subsequent buying decisions based on what they have learned through additional research.

    Believe me, as you have already guessed, I was poking fun for the most part. This is a complaint posting, protesting the needless shut down of a forum for idea exchange, at the manufacturer's feet. It is clear to me (skeptic that I am) and seemingly veiled to others, that SONY really is no longer interested in discussing things -> RIGHT NOW. Please realize that SONY and no one else shut down this server for reasons they are NOT making us privy to and you can excuse this action anyway you want, it stinks to me of pure, unadulterated arrogance. There has been only a lost method of communication and nothing, at this point, to replace it. A "closed door", you might say. No, strike that ... a "slammed door", right in their user's faces.

    While some of the things I discuss are fun to kick back and forth, the need for an improved S/N sensor is clearly one of them. It is hard for me to imagine how you could get better glass. That improvement is kind of at its own end and has been for a decade.

    Shutter Speed is what it is and basically only affects time, not resolution. It also is at the end of its road and has been for several decades. 1/8000th sec is pretty darn quick.

    But, the one opportunity that still remains is the media the light is recorded upon. That's the sensor, in this case, ... and really needs to be addressed with all the resources SONY can throw at it for them to say, "Hey ... look at us."

    Another awesome idea would be to create a "malleable" sensor or Live-View mirror, which could adapt for atmospheric distortions or understand tomography. That would be killer for long distance photography, where one of the camera's internal computer chips, through electronic command, actually and actively makes small deforming adjustments to the sensor in hundreds, if not thousands, of possible places to correct the light and effectively refocus, beyond what the lensing system does, for sharpness. This would get so much more out of the mounted glass than anything else would.

    Name:  Adaptive-Optics.jpg
Views: 242
Size:  166.1 KB

    I guess what I am saying is that you could actually make a shot through a REFLEX lens look ... well, good! It would also allow people to scrap that 10-20 pound bazooka-like lens they have on the front of their camera.

    Name:  tamron500-8a.jpg
Views: 266
Size:  49.6 KB

    I have to MAKEdotBELIEVE it could happen and let Nikon and Canon try matching that one.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 04-03-2010 at 09:41 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,557

    Thumbs up Future developments that mean something

    While "adaptive optics" ideas are all over the place, they still represent the REAL change in photography that is worth of the 21st Century technological advancement.

    I believe even a slight improvement in this area would be a very cool effort and clearly demonstrate that there is a future in photographic development, not just another "marginally improved" camera body to put in the annual SONY stack.


    What I guess I am pointing to, is the fact that you could truly give "legacy glass" new life in ways that simply are unobtainable with any other method and save the entire planet a lot of money and landfill space. How GREEN an idea is that? (I'm trying to appeal to their environmental/political bandwagon interests)

    I know what you are thinking ... will Minolta glass NEVER die? This could very well provide such an answer.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 04-03-2010 at 09:57 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Monmouthshire, UK
    Posts
    2,152
    Ok Don, I get that you were only half serious but Backstage was mostly about helping users to improve their photography not about feedback for Sony, at least not in Sony's eyes. Look at the debacle over Video; 90% of enthusiasts said they didn't want it but the A700 was soundly trashed by reviewers for the lack of it even though the video in competing cameras was rubbish anyway. 90% of us still have no use for video but we are not driving the market and we will get it whether or not.

    ISO 5000? I find myself having no use for it; the reduced dynamic range and loss of detail making it unacceptable (in a low light shot). We should step back from this fixation on High ISO which is as big a distraction as was the race for more megapixels. Of course there will be improvements in the current sensor techology but it will be incremental rather than giant steps until something new comes along, but I wouldn't hold your breath. More likely the DSLR is replaced by EVIL cameras.

    I don't have a comment on your "malleable" sensor.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •