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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Raleigh, NC, USA
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    Don, there are a lot of political issues you and I sit on opposite ends of, but this is one area we agree. I think we don't realize the degree we are being watched. What scares me more than anything isn't the things you and I argue about, it is the thought that one day we might not be able to openly argue about these things. I already know my phone calls to our former foreign exchange students are listened in on. I recently purchased a lens on ebay that was shipped from St. Petersberg Russia (I should do a post on the Helios 44, what a cool lens for cheap) and I'm sure someone somewhere knows and cares.

    Benjamin Franklin said:

    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    I hope I'm not responsible for running this discussion way off topic, so I'll attempt to bring it back around with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    I mean we are on the cusp and they seem to be stuck with the idea of always placing the camera at your eye. It was not and still is not required. Many medium format photographers still use waist-level camera, with flip up viewfinders. They are certainly not eye-level. Call it the "belly-shot", if you will. If you can see it, you can snap it. Just take the viewer with you, the rest of the hardware can remain "virtually" on-site.
    Look at the bottom line of hardware in my sig.



    Beautiful little camera, possibly the biggest thing I miss is a meter, but those things start to become much less of a NEED as you go along. Plus you can blow Tri-X and still be ok. Another often missed point is that this configuration allows for hail mary shots, holding the camera at arms length above your head (good luck nailing focus at a wide aperture though).

    I think the biggest need for mirrors now is for auto-focus. If we can get some method of phase detect autofocus without a mirror, or get contrast detect autofocus to the level of a modern phase detect, the need is gone.

    But at the same time, I would love to see simpler cameras. I think I mentioned my Nikon FE recently. That camera pretty much has all the features I need for 80% of my photography. It is small enough and durable enough I just keep it in my laptop bag everywhere I go, with minimal protection. Even one of these new +30 entry Sonys with a small grip would be bigger, and certainly more fragile. I really wish I could throw the 5D or A850 sensor into a Canon A-1 or Nikon FE body. Even an APS-C sensor would be ok. In a lot of ways I agree with your statements Don that we should do something more interesting, but another part of me just wants something like a Minolta XD-11/7 without the cost per shot of film.
    Jason Hamilton
    Selective Frame

    EOS 5D - Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 35 f/2, EF 50mm f/1.8 Mk II, EF 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 (with EOS adapter), 430EX, Canon S90
    Nikon FE - Nikkor 35mm f/2 AI'd, Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 AI, Nikkor 105mm f/2.5 AI, F to EF adapter, 2xVivitar 285, other lighting stuff
    Mamiya C220 - 80mm f/2.8

    Gear List flickr

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    1,087
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    It is maddening, considering all the trouble that SONY Corporate apparently went to, to get Carl Zeiss contracting for several thousand each of SONY-only high-end optics. It was all they could do to point and say they had "Zeiss" glass for their new line of cameras. I can just see all the younger people marrying those high-end, superior lenses to $300 el cheapo camera bodies?
    Sorry to burst ye olde bubble, Don, but Sony didn't enter that relationship willingly - Zeiss was suing Sony for violating lens patents in the early-mid 2000s.

    The choice for Sony was either enter in to a relationship with Zeiss and pay them licensing fees for the name and some designs, or pay a truly backbreaking settlement which would have seriously, seriously hurt their digital camera business.

    Fast forward six years, Zeiss has got a ton of money out of them, and Sony is desperately trying to push the "G" series lenses to try and build up their own brand name.
    E-510
    E-1
    Zuiko 14-54 F2.8-3.5 MkI
    Zuiko 70-300 F4.0-5.6
    Konica Hexanon 52mm F1.8
    Cullmann 2503
    Benro KS-0

  3. #63
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    Dec 2006
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    God's Country - Australia
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    10,406
    Quote Originally Posted by laydros View Post
    Don, there are a lot of political issues you and I sit on opposite ends of, but this is one area we agree. I think we don't realize the degree we are being watched. What scares me more than anything isn't the things you and I argue about, it is the thought that one day we might not be able to openly argue about these things. .
    paaaallleasssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee........ ...
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  4. #64
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    Dec 2006
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    Guelph, Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooz View Post
    paaaallleasssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee........ ...
    Lol you Americans are super paranoid over everything. I blame Hollywood!
    Canon EOS 7D

    flickr
    FLUIDR

  5. #65
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    Nov 2008
    Location
    Monmouthshire, UK
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    It's mildly interesting that the announcement of a new camera produces, even before we know the specs, another round of Sony bashing and the splash of people abandoning ship.

  6. #66
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    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, USA
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    788
    Quote Originally Posted by Peekayoh View Post
    It's mildly interesting that the announcement of a new camera produces, even before we know the specs, another round of Sony bashing and the splash of people abandoning ship.
    It wasn't that the announcement of a new camera caused people to jump ship, it is the lack of specs, release date, etc. that did.

    Again, I think we will see a release in a couple of months, not several. If I was in the position for this PMA that I was at the last one, I might have stayed with Sony. The A700 is currently a steal (although used ones don't seem as cheap as they could be) and this new camera will be out soon, support HD video, has a top LCD, and will probably cause the price of the used A700s to drop out. Additionally the new 24mm CZ indicates Sony is committed to high end gear.

    So I agree with you that this is a dumb time for people to jump ship, but I know why they are doing it.

    I'm much more impressed with Sony now than I was a year ago. The A850 is very cool, and will probably get even cheaper. The old Minolta glass has a much better price/performance ratio than old Canon and Nikon glass, and the pro level selection is getting much better.

    Hopefully the A450/A550 high ISO improvement over the A350 is a sign of upcoming improvements for the A7xx and follow ups to the A850 and A900. If they are, the only big thing Sony needs is weather sealing. However, not all serious photographers need weather sealing, so there are still plenty of wedding, portrait, landscape photographers who could use Sony gear.
    Jason Hamilton
    Selective Frame

    EOS 5D - Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 35 f/2, EF 50mm f/1.8 Mk II, EF 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 (with EOS adapter), 430EX, Canon S90
    Nikon FE - Nikkor 35mm f/2 AI'd, Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 AI, Nikkor 105mm f/2.5 AI, F to EF adapter, 2xVivitar 285, other lighting stuff
    Mamiya C220 - 80mm f/2.8

    Gear List flickr

  7. #67
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    Nov 2008
    Location
    Monmouthshire, UK
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    2,152
    Jason, it seems folk simply want everything now (not just cameras) and just can't wait until tomorrow. I'm glad not to feel the pressure although thats not to say I don't want new gear, I'm still saving for that A900.
    As for a release date of the actual A7xx, I think two dates are on the cards. Favourite is April/May in time for the World Cup and that could be a real showstopper if the A7xx and the 500mm/f4 are released together, if Sony can't make that date it may be Photokina.
    I doubt the A7xx will hurt the used price of the A700 currently around 450/500. The new camera will be at least 1000 but probably quite a bit more for some time so the A700 will still be attractive to many.
    Yes, I'm also very happy with Sony. I've never lost faith despite all the negative criticism and I still believe that Sony will deliver the goods. So long as I have a platform for my Minolta gear, I'm happy.
    You mention Wedding Photography so you may be interested to read this piece on photo.net; it's by Marc Williams, a Pro with broad experience in several brands and he comes out on the side of Sony, would you believe.

  8. #68
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    Dec 2006
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    God's Country - Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peekayoh View Post
    So long as I have a platform for my Minolta gear, I'm happy.
    i couldnt think of a worse enemy to progress than that statement.

    You mention Wedding Photography so you may be interested to read this piece on photo.net; it's by Marc Williams, a Pro with broad experience in several brands and he comes out on the side of Sony, would you believe.
    let me start by saying that this is pretty much answer shopping. ie: if you search hard and long enuf you are bound to find someone that shares your POV, regardless of what it may be. to try and suggest that there is some sort of definitive answer by selecting ONE persons opinion compared to thousands of others who have a totally different view is the definition of myopic. ie: if you find 1 out of 10,000 views, (and it wouldnt be far off that), to support your POV...what possible conclusion can you draw otehr than say "ohhh look, THIS person agrees with me, i must be right."

    ok, interesting article, very much so. and a highly reputable source. a couple of things i took out of it.

    1. he used sony alot, he used other dslr brands sparingly. it would be safe to assume that when you use a particualr brand alot, you have an undrestanding of what works SOOC. what settings, what colours, what incam adjustments need to be made etc. given the fact that he saus colours were right SOOC with sony...i would suggest to you that his familiarity with sony plays a fairly significant role in this.

    2. inbody stabilisation - ahhh...old debate. has its advantages. far less than what is being made out. i noted that in one of his comments he said a deer crossed his path and he had an a900 w/70-300 lens and got a crystal clear shot at 1/125s...ahhhh...so ? nikon/ canons versions are also stabilised.

    3. hi iso...almost humorous that he would gloss over this as being a bit of a nothing factor. for a wedding photographer this is pretty damn important from everyone i've spoken to. you are photographing people in relatively low light and cant do it consistently and effectively at miniscule shutter speeds cos they are people and funnily enuf...people move. so hi iso is actually pretty damn important for them cos of one key reason...it gives them flexibility.

    4. lens choice...again, pretty much just glossed over. there are some superb sony lens' but do they match canon in particualr in that regard ? hell no. even nikon are well in front.

    the a850/900 are certianly sony's stand outs purely based on price. of that there is no doubt. but to try and draw some sort of general conclusion out of this for the whole sony system is quite simply ridiculous and disingenuous.
    D800e l V1 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l EP5 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
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  9. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    313
    Quote Originally Posted by Rooz View Post
    the a850/900 are certianly sony's stand outs purely based on price. of that there is no doubt. but to try and draw some sort of general conclusion out of this for the whole sony system is quite simply ridiculous and disingenuous.
    Well, said Rooz.
    I am switching to Nikon because I don't have much faith in the future of the Sony system. They haven't commited the resources to make me think they're really taking the DSLR market seriously. It's looking like Sony is just content to stay at the low end, and count on sales volume. THAT is what they know and are used to.
    Sony is competing in the full-frame market purely on price, *hoping* for volume.

    JR

  10. #70
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    Dec 2006
    Location
    Guelph, Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr_rodriguez View Post
    Well, said Rooz.
    I am switching to Nikon because I don't have much faith in the future of the Sony system. They haven't commited the resources to make me think they're really taking the DSLR market seriously. It's looking like Sony is just content to stay at the low end, and count on sales volume. THAT is what they know and are used to.
    Sony is competing in the full-frame market purely on price, *hoping* for volume.

    JR
    Is Sony limiting you somehow?
    Just asking cause I haven't seen many images from you yet!

    I kinda understand the people that switch after they have actually been trough the pains and limitations but I don't get the people that switch cause of what they hear!
    Canon EOS 7D

    flickr
    FLUIDR

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