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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooz View Post
    read between the lines peter. i was responsding to you being ever-hopeful of sony coming up with the next big breakthru and generally being an apologist for why sony have ignored the middle to top end of the dslr market. here is what you said.
    See, the really confusing thing is that they've kind of... "dabbled" in that market.

    There's some nice glass at the top-end range. The a900 is a pretty good camera, and if Sony had thought to release weather-sealed lenses, it may have been a decent pro-level camera system. Built-in IS on a 35mm FF equivalent sensor? Very nice.

    But, now that they've put the money in to R&D for the lenses, and R&D for the bodies, Sony is now seemingly abandoning that market as a lost cause. Maybe that's what happening? Perhaps Sony has decided that they can't compete with CaNikon at the top, or the other four big players in the middle, so they want the low-end.

    That's kind of odd to me since I've never, EVER seen Sony take that kind of marketing/product strategy - Sony, at least to me, has always been premium product at premium price.
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  2. #32
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    hey, if i worked in a studio only, i'd be seriously thinking about a sony a850. whack that zeiss 135 on it and i'm golden. like you said, on pure price alone the a850 stacks up when you work in good controlled circumstances.

    i think its really a case of putting the whole dslr R&D on hold until such time as the market rebounds and people get some disposable income back. lets face it tv's etc is sony's core business. that's where the volume and the profits are so its hardly surprising that during the GFC sony revert back to focusing on core business; they're not a charity. there's nothing particularly wrong about that, but just call it the way it is rather than making silly excuses.
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  3. #33
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    Red face Excuse me ...

    I am with 'Rooz' on this. (What the heck am I saying? )

    Sorry, I just finished shoveling the 6 inches of snow off the walkways and I must be ... delirious. Sorry, folks.

    No, the truth is that SONY really seems to be tuning out the high-end APS-C segment, saying something akin to, "Let them eat α700!"

    The α850 was a superior bait & switch to Full Frame, but it still is just an α900Jr in α850 clothing.

    The SPORT cam (α1) is the big leap .. and it either shows up this year or they are not really interested in it.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooz View Post
    hey, if i worked in a studio only, i'd be seriously thinking about a sony a850. whack that zeiss 135 on it and i'm golden. like you said, on pure price alone the a850 stacks up when you work in good controlled circumstances.
    Agreed. Good body, great lens. The thing is, from a pro perspective, I have never met or worked with anyone who shot 100% from studio. Even stuff like product or portrait photography, you're going to end up on location some times.

    Dusty environments will wreck as much havoc on lenses as rain/condensation will.
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  5. #35
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    I don't see why talk of weather sealed lenses keep coming up. It hasn't taken Olympus far. In fact Olympus does not even have 1/2 the market share of Sony for DSLR.
    Even with Canon, not everyone who owns one goes out and buys a weather sealed lens. Canon saturated the market with their DSLRs cause they were quick to pump them out in the beginning not because they had a better product, just a lack of competition.

    Sony is playing catch up cause Minolta slacked in the digital age with only 2 models.
    As for 6 models under 1k, it's no different then them having 21 models of LCD/LED tv's that are 46" and up.
    They just want to saturate the market until Sony becomes a household name for DSLRs. Then they would probably think of what the user actually wants.

    It may be a stupid technique for us who know better but it is genius. Cause look how far they have come since fall 2006!
    Oly/Panny, Pentax/Samsung are far behind!
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooz View Post
    they dont have a clue what they want. they have 6 to choose from however. do you really think a newb will know the difference between 3 new models, 4 new models and 6 new models ? .......
    Rooz, you're quite right that the newcomer to DSLR, or most of them, don't have a clue as to what they want. They go by brand and price point, so they buy the camera that fits their budget and a brand they know. Sony are offering the widest choice of budget fitting cameras. Pretty it aint but it probably works.

    I'm not expecting any breakthrough in DSLR, I already said that I thought the A7xx will simply have better all round performance. If you read the text of the Toru Katsumoto interview, he wasn't talking about breaking new ground in the DSLR market, could have been EVIL but now looking like the Video competitor to RED.

    Don, I don't know what your trying to get across, unless you're going back to Canon.
    As for 3D, that's exclusively for Video unless I've missed the point.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jekostas View Post
    See, the really confusing thing is that they've kind of... "dabbled" in that market........
    Not really. They produced a class leading high res camera to show what they could do. They never claimed it was Pro level and in fact said the reverse. I'm not saying they have no designs on the Pro market just that it's not yet.

    I'm repeating myself again, but Sony knew from day one that it would be a effort doomed to failure were they to try and woo the CaNikon camp away from their chosen system. At the same time they knew they had to keep the established Minolta users happy, hence the A700 and A900, whilst aiming their big effort at growing the entry level user base and it should be obvious that without a large user base no DSLR business can hope to be profitable.
    It would have been impossible for Sony to come up with a fully fledged Entry through to Pro level system at a stroke, so their strategy may be somewhat piecemeal and will not meet with universal approval. From my biased opinion as a long term Minolta user, I think they are doing a pretty good job so far.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    I am with 'Rooz' on this. (What the heck am I saying? )

    Sorry, I just finished shoveling the 6 inches of snow off the walkways and I must be ... delirious. Sorry, folks.

    No, the truth is that SONY really seems to be tuning out the high-end APS-C segment, saying something akin to, "Let them eat α700!"
    Don, I'm sorry pal, but I think you're losing it, maybe it is the snow.
    The A7xx is coming and remember it's only been 2yrs 3mnths since the A700 was launched. How quickly do we need to upgrade anyway?

    The α850 was a superior bait & switch to Full Frame, but it still is just an α900Jr in α850 clothing.

    The SPORT cam (α1) is the big leap .. and it either shows up this year or they are not really interested in it.
    Not a chance, but the A7xx may go some way towards that end.

  9. #39
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    As for the weather sealing bit - I think a TON of professionals shoot the Canon 5D, and the A900/A850 is almost straight competition. Similar levels of weather sealing, FPS, and AF, but super IQ. The problem with Sony is the lack of high ISO. But for a wedding or portrait shooter (and there are a LOT of them) the Sony system has almost all of the merits of the 5D and L glass as long as you don't need ISO 1600, and arguably better glass. Outside of the 35L, I would probably prefer the Sony 16-35, 24-70, 85 and 135, all with IS, none of the corresponding Canons have that.

    -----

    Geez, Don is coming across with the same level of disappointment I had after PMA last year. The small collection of consumer lenses + rebranded Tamron 28-75 and a single pro lens without so much as a focal length.. all behind glass. I just didn't expect to see the day Peter ended up in this "last man standing" position. I'm sure Don will be back at it tomorrow.

    But... gosh, it doesn't look good. It is hard to take the system seriously right now.

    I don't believe Sony is abandoning the system, but I don't have any reason to think they aren't at this time.
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  10. #40
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    I wouldn't be afraid of the weather with the A900. It seems up enough to the challenge.




    That said, and I haven't read all of this thread, but wtf is sony thinking? Their new lineup is just ridiculous. They don't need to keep introducing so many new models. The lineup that comes to mind is the Nikon D40 and D60 series. Those were selling for years and are just now getting phased out by the D3000 and D5000. (The D3000 being nearly identical to a D40x, which is also sort of a pointless camera).

    They'd be better off waiting for bigger updates for a new camera release. I really am interested to see what the A700's replacement brings. I've been waiting a year for it. It's either going to be really nice or just as mediocre as the last few cameras they've been releasing.
    Last edited by dr4gon; 01-07-2010 at 08:05 PM.
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