I was going to start my own thread, but this one seems to be what I need as well.
Currently, I own an Olympus C-700, but it's time for a new camera.
Primarily, I will use the camera to take pictures at rock concerts, so I need a camera with a good zoom, and one that will focus fast and in low, colored, and ever-changing light.
And I will be taking regular family pictures, both indoors and out.
I'm also looking for ease of use, something with a very user friendly interface. I'm not a pro, just someone figuring it out as I go.
I'm looking into the Canon SI S2, the Nikon 8800, and the Panasonic FZ20. (The FZ5 doesn't have manual focus, so it's probably out.) And with the mention of the Fuji F10's high ISO, I'm wondering if this might work well for me, even without the zoom, (I usually manage to be right up front.) but I do love the ultra-zooms.
With my C-700, I've gotten some great concert pictures (great to my inexperienced eyes) by using the sequential shooting mode. Figuring that out really helped me get a lot of great shots. I also know to wait until the band members are standing still, or nearly still, and in better light, to take the picture. I'm not looking for shots that are perfect to the person who knows photography, only to the other fans of the bands I took the pictures of. I just want clear, focused shots, with some depth.
I went to Wolfe Camera, and told the man what I'm telling you here. He handed me the FZ20. He only brought out the S2 when I mentioned that a tilting LCD would be nice for shots over the heads of people in front of me. But he seemed to think the FZ cameras were superior for concert shooting. I couldn't look at the 8800, because he didn't have one in stock.
There are pros and cons for each camera. Which camera, in your opinion, will take the clearest, deepest pictures in the low light at concerts, but still be good for family pictures outdoors or with flash, while being easy to use?
I was going to start my own thread, but this one seems to be what I need as well.
Currently, I own an Olympus C-700, but it's time for a new camera.
Primarily, I will use the camera to take pictures at rock concerts, so I need a camera with a good zoom, and one that will focus fast and in low, colored, and ever-changing light.
And I will be taking regular family pictures, both indoors and out.
I'm also looking for ease of use, something with a very user friendly interface. I'm not a pro, just someone figuring it out as I go.
I'm looking into the Canon SI S2, the Nikon 8800, and the Panasonic FZ20. (The FZ5 doesn't have manual focus, so it's probably out.) And with the mention of the Fuji F10's high ISO, I'm wondering if this might work well for me, even without the zoom, (I usually manage to be right up front.) but I do love the ultra-zooms.
With my C-700, I've gotten some great concert pictures (great to my inexperienced eyes) by using the sequential shooting mode. Figuring that out really helped me get a lot of great shots. I also know to wait until the band members are standing still, or nearly still, and in better light, to take the picture. I'm not looking for shots that are perfect to the person who knows photography, only to the other fans of the bands I took the pictures of. I just want clear, focused shots, with some depth.
I went to Wolfe Camera, and told the man what I'm telling you here. He handed me the FZ20. He only brought out the S2 when I mentioned that a tilting LCD would be nice for shots over the heads of people in front of me. But he seemed to think the FZ cameras were superior for concert shooting. I couldn't look at the 8800, because he didn't have one in stock.
There are pros and cons for each camera. Which camera, in your opinion, will take the clearest, deepest pictures in the low light at concerts, but still be good for family pictures outdoors or with flash, while being easy to use?
---Corrine
Well...the FZ can shoot at f/2.8 across the entire zoom range...that could prove beneficial for your situation...but...I think if your seriously into this, you should be considering a dSLR for concert shooting...
The problem with a DSLR is that most concert venues will not allow any cameras with removable lenses. They consider that a professional camera. I guess they are afraid you are from some magazine and are trying to get pictures without going through the proper channels. It's so bad that if I get the FZ20, I'm considering getting it in silver, because in black it looks too professional. So DSLRs are out.
Actually, on my original list of things I wanted in a camera was compactness. I really loved the FZ5 for this. But then I decided that picture quality was much more important. But I don't think I want to go as far as to lug lenses and things around.
The problem with a DSLR is that most concert venues will not allow any cameras with removable lenses. They consider that a professional camera. I guess they are afraid you are from some magazine and are trying to get pictures without going through the proper channels. It's so bad that if I get the FZ20, I'm considering getting it in silver, because in black it looks too professional. So DSLRs are out.
Actually, on my original list of things I wanted in a camera was compactness. I really loved the FZ5 for this. But then I decided that picture quality was much more important. But I don't think I want to go as far as to lug lenses and things around.
Too bad!
I have the S2 and it's good...but, for you, I think the FZ20 might be the ticket. An outside choice to look at is the Canon G6. You can shoot at f/2.0 at the wider settings and f/3.0 at tele...but it's only a 4x (140mm) zoom. So, I still think the FZ20 is probably your best choice.
As a lot of folks on this forum already know I take a lot of concert and theater shots. I worked my way through a good number of digital cameras, among the group were the Panasonic FZ 10, 15, and 20 models. However, as has been previously suggested in this thread, I now use dSLR cameras exclusively.
Yes, the FZ-20 could do the job, but you are using the camera at its absolute limits: maximum aperture, maximum ISO etc. The result is that you get very slow shutter speeds that are virtually incapable of stopping any action at all on stage and you become entirely dependent on the amount of light that is available on stage when you want to shoot.
I moved to dSLR's because using the FZ-20 at F 2.8 and ISO 400 was just making shooting very difficult with very spotty, unpreditable results. I needed more ISO and if economically feasible, faster lenses.
Today with a dSLR I can shoot at ISO 3200, and I can do it with a reasonable F3.5 aperture lenses and reasonable shutter speeds that really will stop action on stage without using any flash.
The limitations that I had experienced with digital cameras such as the FZ-20 were gone. Now I no longer have to cross my fingers while going to a concert to take photos, I now get very consistent and much higher quality results. In the FZ-20 I was always fighting the noise gremlin, with dSLR cameras such as the Canon 20D and the Pentax 1stDS, noise is no longer a problem.
I am sorry to make this post so long, but I thought it might be helpful to chronicle the progression I went through. OK, the logical question is this: If you don't want to spent $1,000 to $2,000 to get into a good dSLR outfit, then what do you do?
Remember that the two limiting factors in concert amd theater photography are ISO speeds and fast lenses. I also mentioned that when you can really increase the ISO speed sustantially, the need for a fast lens is reduced considerably. Therefore, you might want to take a look at the newer point and shoot digital cameras that have much higher available ISO speeds such as the Fuji F-10. The F-10 has a max ISO setting of 1600 that gives you much more flexibility. So for around $300, the F-10 will give a piece of the action. Yes, it does have some limitations, such as only 3X optical zoom, and please keep in mind that when the F-10 is zoomed out to that 3X position, the useable aperture falls to F 5.0 which is very limiting. So setup your shots with the F-10 where you are at the wide angle position. Then you can get some really great photos. I have attached a photo from the F-10 to demonstrate what the F-10 really can do if you setup your photos to operate within the F-10 limitations.
Now I am sure you would also mlike to see an example of what a dSLR can do as well. Here is a shot from the Chinese Acrobatics Show. I was back almost 100 feet, and to the side, of the stage and I was shooting with my Pentax 1stDS equipped with a Sigma 28-300mm lens. The Exposure for this shot was F 4.0 at 1/125 at a setting of ISO 3200. The shot was made handheld and the camera does not have image stabilization, which I believe is an over rated feature
So this shot could not be done with the Fuji F-10 because there was too much action on stage and the F-10 does not have enough zoom to handle the distance.
Sarah Joyce
Last edited by speaklightly; 06-18-2005 at 12:22 PM.
Reason: spelling correction
Now I am sure you would also mlike to see an example of what a dSLR can do as well. Here is a shot from the Chinese Acrobatics Show. I was back almost 100 feet, and to the side, of the stage and I was shooting with my Pentax 1stDS equipped with a Sigma 28-300mm lens. The Exposure for this shot was F 4.0 at 1/125 at a setting of ISO 3200. The shot was made handheld and the camera does not have image stabilization, which I believe is an over rated feature
So this shot could not be done with the Fuji F-10 because there was too much action on stage and the F-10 does not have enough zoom to handle the distance.
Sarah Joyce
Sarah,
No apologies required for your "long" posts -- they're extremely informative!
Here's a hypothetical question for you, the answer for which I'm hoping is "Yes." Regarding the shot of the Chinese Acrobats (very nice, by the way, as well as the fireworks shot!) -- the only requirement for getting the same (ok -- close to the same) results from the F-10 would be getting closer to the stage, right?
Also, do you happen to have any low-light no-flash action shots taken with your F-10 that you'd be willing to post?
Yes, to take the Shanghai Acrobats photo you would have to be in the few rows of seats, near the center of the stage. You would have to use your F-10 in the wide angle position, and understand that the shutter speed you get will be dependent on the level of lighting. With ISO 1600, and the lighting shown in that photo, my guess (and it is only a guess) is that the shutter speed would have been around 1/50th.
So as I said before, if you are willing to operate within the limitations of the F-10 you will be amazed at the digital photos you can get. Yes, I will continue to post a series of no flash/low light level photos. This one was taken with my Canon 20D at an ISO setting of 1600 and an available aperture of F 3.5. So it will give you an idea of what ISO 1600 can produce.
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Originally Posted by Corrine
So DSLRs are out.