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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Des Plaines, IL
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    Thumbs up Alternatives?

    Now, I know your head is probably spinning with all this and there is a better way to do it, with a little more investment in your craft. Take, for instance, having the SONY AF 50mm f/1.8 lens in you bag. This lens costs $150, so it is not beyond reason.

    Before the party begins ... we swap off the "kit" lens and place the 50mm f/1.8 on.

    Now, you have some aperture to use to correct this "Ev 0" issue. Let's do the math ...

    The original Ev 0 shot = f/4, 1/15 sec, ISO-800

    Change the Shutter Speed to 1/125 and we already know we need 3 more f/stops of light to get back to Ev 0.

    Aperture when multiplied by 0.7071 provides 1 f/stop more light.

    f/4 (original limit of kit lens)
    f/2.8
    f/2 (well within aperture limit of 50mm f/1.8)

    So, by going from f/4 to f/2, we can get 2 f/stops of additional light to the sensor.

    We can pick up the last f/stop of light by doubling the ISO from 800 to 1600.

    There you have it. With your settings at f/2, 1/125 sec, ISO-1600 ... you have an "Ev 0 shot" that can handle "limited" movement indoors, with the proper exposure. The SONY's "SSS" takes care of your handshake while using this low light PRIME lens ...

    That's just one example of how it works and a solid example of how a "bright" lens can make life a little easier on your camera.

    How's that workin' for you, 'VTEC'?
    Last edited by DonSchap; 12-10-2009 at 10:11 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,562
    You got my head spinning I hope Vtec's head is still on his body.LOL Good job

    Frank
    Sony A77
    Sony A580
    Sony A 100
    Maxxum 400si.
    Sony 18-70 Kit Lens
    Minolta AF 35-70
    Minolta AF 50 f/1.7
    Tamron 70-300 f/4-5.6 Di LD
    Tamron 60mm Macro
    Tamron 17-50 f/2.8
    Tamron 2x Converter
    Sony HVL-F42AM
    Quantaray 70-300 4.5-5.6 Macro
    Slingshot 200 Bag



    http://www.flickr.com/photos/22083244@N06/

    http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn219/sparkie1263/

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Chicago, IL USA
    Posts
    935
    Actually I know all this stuff already, but since no one was biting at Don's proposal, I thought I would tell you a story about using a buddies a330. Truth be told, I shot in Aperture Priority, wide open with bounce flash. The photos came out okay, but the little flash unit my friend had was not powerful enough to properly light a 12' x 15' room with 9 foot white ceilings.

    In addition, I could not figure out how to dial in any flash power changes, or adjust many other things. Those Sony cameras are strange. Can't just push a button and turn a wheel to make setting changes like with Nikon. Need to find the option somewhee buried in the menues.

    Oh yeah, the a300 also had this crazy autofocusing thing going on. I didn't have to push the shutter or anything, it just focused all the time. Even with the camera just in my hand at my side. Someone walks by ~bzzzzz... bink!. Someone walks away ~bzzzzz... bink!. Annoying as all hell. Couldn't find the option in the menu to turn that off.
    Nikon D300 | MB-D10 | Nikkor 12-24/4 | Nikkor 50/1.8 | Nikkor 70-200/2.8 VRI | Sigma 18-50/2.8 | SB-800 | SB-80DX (x4) | Radiopopper JrX Studio |

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    Exclamation Now we have the rest of the stroy ... and a very important part, by the way

    The "Eye-Start AF" or "pre-focus" is something they have permanently de-activated in the α850. It originally was a handy idea when used in the earlier focus drive motor, as when you brought the camera to your eye, the focus was already engaged and by the time your finger went for the shutter release for the "final focus" and "focus lock", when you half-pressed the shutter release, the pre-focus operation was usually over, waiting on your confirmation.

    Unfortunately, with camera is hanging around your neck, with the power "ON", and the proximity of your body constantly triggers the "Eye-start AF" sensor (near the viewfinder) and it just "does its thing", so to speak. The quick answer is to simply shut off the camera, between shots or after you are done using it. People are kind of lazy, though ... and leave the camera "ON".

    From page 67 of the α300/α350 manual:

    To deactivate the "Eye-Start AF" feature

    MENU button Custom Menu 1[Eye-Start AF][OFF]

    Note: When attaching the FDA-M1AM Magnifier (not supplied) or the FDA-A1AM Angle Finder (not supplied) to the camera, setting [Eye-Start AF] to [Off] is recommended because the eyepiece sensors located below the viewfinder may be activated.


    This feature is a Minolta-idea and has some merit with the slower focusing lenses, like the 75-300mm-series, but in practice ... it also has some drawbacks, as you have encountered. Knowing your camera complete operation is a benefit.

    My description of using "no flash" was because ...

    Quote Originally Posted by VTEC_EATER View Post
    ... I don't want to use flash because it looks bad. How can I fix my images?

    I'm shooting with an A330 and the 18-55 kit lens.

    -Clueless in Chicago
    The idea of boosting the built-in flash did not occur to me, because you pre-empted the idea before we started, looking for a "flash-less solution."

    I hope this was helpful and not too confusing. If you actually practice it, it does begin to make some sense. Understanding the idea "Ev" is crucial to BOTH Manual Mode and using the "+/-" Exposure compensation switch, up near the shutter release, when in the other more automated modes (A, S, P and, yes, AUTO).

    And while I know you are an experienced cameraman, I couched this reply in a way to try and allow the beginner users some idea of how to do it, without being too "jargon-ized" and assuming.

    Thank you for your question.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 12-11-2009 at 08:14 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Guelph, Ontario
    Posts
    1,903
    VTEC_EATER, Flash Comp, EV Comp, Metering and so on is a one button affair on the a700. Trying to remember how it was on the a300 but I do know that on the a330, they changed a few things around.
    I kinda miss the metering dial on my 7D. It's a 2 step process now.
    Canon EOS 7D

    flickr
    FLUIDR

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Posts
    788
    VTEC_EATER - I think not being able to find settings is a combination of brands doing things in different places, and the fact that the A330 is an entry level camera. They hide the settings on the Rebel and the D3000 as well. One of my favorite things about the 40D is the whole push a button and one wheel controls ISO, one controls flash comp, press another and one controls WB, one controls metering. The A300 was ok with changing settings like this, but the Ax30 series is pretty bad.

    When I had an A300 I turned off eye-start very soon, but when I did things like sports events it was pretty handy to turn back on.

    Another comment, I don't disagree with Don as much as some people here, but I will call him out in a heartbeat when I feel he is treating the subjective as objective. However, this sure is a nice thing for him to do and some great info. His heavy usage of the forums limited ability to change text really helps take explanations like this into the realm of book quality.

    Don should write a book that could be the companion to "Understanding Exposure," which is what I recommend to all new SLR users.
    Jason Hamilton
    Selective Frame

    EOS 5D - Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 35 f/2, EF 50mm f/1.8 Mk II, EF 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 (with EOS adapter), 430EX, Canon S90
    Nikon FE - Nikkor 35mm f/2 AI'd, Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 AI, Nikkor 105mm f/2.5 AI, F to EF adapter, 2xVivitar 285, other lighting stuff
    Mamiya C220 - 80mm f/2.8

    Gear List flickr

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Posts
    788
    I'll add another and vote we get a sticky out of this....

    Dear Don,

    When I edit my photos in Lightroom they look great to me, but every time I post them online everybody says they look horrible-overprocessed, detail loss, and color-shifted. I'm just applying some noise reduction, sharpening, contrast, and saturation. I eventually pulled up some of my pictures on a computer at work and then they even looked bad to me, what gives?

    Miscolored in Memphis
    Jason Hamilton
    Selective Frame

    EOS 5D - Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 35 f/2, EF 50mm f/1.8 Mk II, EF 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 (with EOS adapter), 430EX, Canon S90
    Nikon FE - Nikkor 35mm f/2 AI'd, Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 AI, Nikkor 105mm f/2.5 AI, F to EF adapter, 2xVivitar 285, other lighting stuff
    Mamiya C220 - 80mm f/2.8

    Gear List flickr

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Guelph, Ontario
    Posts
    1,903
    Dear Miscoloured in Memphis,

    Get rid of your current monitor :-)
    Canon EOS 7D

    flickr
    FLUIDR

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    Cool Getting your image to "look right"

    Initially, two words ... "Color Management"

    One of the more misunderstood terms in digital photography is an element of the process called "Color Management".

    There are three substantial processes the image goes through on its way to another location.
    • Capture - getting the image in the camera
    • Post-Processing - Adjusting the image for final production to either "the web" or a printer
    • Printing/Web Production/Projection - Producing the final "product" for distribution to the rest of the world


    Using a home computer system for image post-processing is, perhaps, the one place where this process goes to hell with a hand-basket. Most monitors are mass produced and as long as they qualify with the quick color tune-up they do in production, they are slapped into a shipping crate and sent on down the line for distribution to the rest of the world.

    If you were to line all these mass produced monitors up, side-by-side, all made by the same company ... you would see a veritable sea of various colors, shades and intensities of the identical image being sent to them simultaneously. It is kind of like going to the local "big box" store and looking at all the various televisions they have on display. Just stand back and look at them all ... hardly any two are that much alike that you cannot detect some trifle irregularity. Now, here's the BIG question: Which one is set up correctly? There probably isn't a single salesman on the floor that can say.

    Now, couple that same manufacturer's monitor output with that of about 20 to 30 different manufacturers, throughout the world! What are the chances that you would have two identically setup monitors viewing YOUR images? Even ones you control yourself. I believe you begin to see the issue and resultant problem.

    This is where color calibration and color management come into play. With a little more interest in the type of monitor you are using for editing your personal work for your own consumption (this aspect is probably more important than the camera itself if you are producing your work for some kind of distribution, such as the web) you should have a device that has these minimal requirements (to be supplied later).

    Also, to check the consistency of your monitor's color output, you need a color checking device that can advise you when these color levels "drift" or "shift" on a regular basis. Twice month, at the minimum. A good beginning device, just to get you "in the ballpark" so to speak, is the PANTONE huey™. (<- click on this)

    Please review the information concerning this device and realize that if you are truly interested in putting for relatively conforming color production, this is considered to be a bare minimum for conformance.


    Better still, I am going to refer you to another Internet article that discusses this a little more for everyone. "Color Management made easy"


    The overall resolution of your monitor will expose detail, after you have calibrated it for brightness and contrast.

    The bottom line in all this is ... that you cannot control the "bozo" who is viewing your work. Heck, they don't care if their monitor is a little off, but YOU are the producer of this work. It is incumbent upon you to issue it "looking right" BEFORE you show it to the world ... or why bother? They will just pick it apart, object its "off-color" appearance and that will dramatically reduce your impact.

    If you are a true photographer ... you really do want your audience cooing their appreciation. WHY kill it in errant post-processing? Better to just let the camera make the call. Shoot the image straight to the web from the DSLRs output port. It is probably closer to the correct coloration than that monitor you are NOW using.

    If you spent money on editing software (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc) ... you are not done yet. Get the monitor calibrated and aligned (if it is possible) to give you the results you currently just "think" you are getting, but really ... are not. The rules are the same for one and all. The idea is for everyone to eventually all see the same color.

    Just remember the old IS-rule: "Garbage in -> Garbage out."

    Personally, the system I have chosen seems to be one of the better ones and an industry standard, Eye-One from GretaMacbeth ... but, then again, I am committed to a solid representation of my work. That takes a few bucks, to be sure ... but there is no looking back. In for a penny, in for a pound. Once you are confident in your output, you can tell who also is and who isn't, because if the type of criticism you will be receiving. If they tend to say your color is wrong (and you KNOW it is not, because your system is properly calibrated), it is THEY who are more than likely to have NOT done the hardware homework necessary to properly evaluate output from anyone else.

    Once you start using one of these tools on your monitor and elsewhere, you will see, it is hard to mess it up, once you understand what is happening with profile files and the corrections. In fact, I would suggest that you will quickly recognize if your images and prints start "drifting" as it were. The calibration system reminds you also, every two weeks (or more often), that the video system needs a quick check. It occurs usually at boot up or log in. Spend the ten minutes necessary, after the system has warmed up for about an hour ... and you will know you have excellent control over your output.

    I hope this was of some help, "Miscolored"
    Last edited by DonSchap; 12-11-2009 at 05:04 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
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    10,424
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    One of the sadder realities of digital photography is that ISO-6400 is a tremendously "noisy", shooting in low-light. Even if the DSLR is capable of it, it will look rather tragic once you put it on your PC for post-processing. What you can do is try and keep your shot at Ev -2, using ISO-1600 as your maximum and push it in post-processing, by using the exposure slider in Photoshop CS to provide the "missing light." It can be iffy, but the chances are that the resultant effort will look tremendously better than a pure ISO-6400 attempt for a true "Ev 0" image.

    is this true or just your theory ? i've never experimented this for myself but it doesnt sound quite right cos underexposing shadows is hi-iso's worst enemy. normally speaking i would try and overexpose high iso pics to make sure the shadows are well lit and then try and bring the EV down a tad in post.
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