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  1. #41
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    Some people argue that it works but not for me. The shadow areas look worse when you bring it back up.
    But I suppose it will work in a pinch if you needed a higher SS.
    Canon EOS 7D

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    FLUIDR

  2. #42
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    Cool Differing conditional results for ISO-6400

    High-ISO works like two different animals between low light and normal light (i.e., daylight). The presence of noise at ISO-6400 is truly substantial, without daylight to dissolve it, compared to that of ISO-1600. Frankly, I never opt for ISO-6400, indoors, based on those results. YMMV.

    Once again, it really is dependent on the lighting available. I just tried it out, tonight ... and the ISO-6400 shot actually came out looking better, as the Adobe PS CS4 software had to fight a lot harder to match up with what it believed to be Ev +2. It would up being more like Ev +4 on the slider to make the light intensity value similar.

    Boosting the shadows results in far more blotchiness and color detail is abysmal, without light.

    So ... after this result, if you have ISO-6400 available ... use it. As I stated earlier, the alternative is iffy! The ongoing struggle for light ... still needs light from somewhere. Pushing it beyond Ev +1 with the use of post-processing software is just asking for trouble.

    Going back as a review, if you exceed more that Ev -0.7 for your PRIMARY shot, you are just hanging it out there. Post-processing recovery just may not be possible to a permissible degree. That is precisely why low light photography is such a challenge trying to deal with any kind of movement. Let's face it ... if it doesn't move, time is on your side. That f/4 lens will eventually capture it. Heck, an f/8 lens will capture a rock! It may take the full 30-seconds the camera shutter can stay open, without help from a manually controlled shutter release (BULB), but even a candle delivers enough light to do it, provided, of course, that it is close enough.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 12-11-2009 at 06:46 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  3. #43
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    Cool Exposing yourself to your limitations ...

    I got to thinking about this ... and this particular exposure exercise is actually good for practice because it shows you the LIMIT of recoverable photography. It is not as forgiving with intro-lenses ... and that kind of makes my entire point.

    One you are reduced to the use of a f/1.8 PRIME to get your shot, it is time to start looking for additional light sources (flashes, reflectors ... hot lights), because that is the end of that natural tunnel.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 12-11-2009 at 07:13 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  4. #44
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    Jun 2008
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    2,204
    Bracket all three lol. I'm sure it's also highly camera dependent.
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    Canon 7D - 5D | 550EX - 430EX II - (2) PW FlexTT5 | 24-105 f4L | 70-200 f2.8L IS | 100 f2.8L IS | 50 f1.8 II

  5. #45
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    Dec 2006
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    God's Country - Australia
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    sorry, cant think of any situation where underexposing a 6400 shot by 2 stops and pushing it up in post would be as good as the 6400 shot shot in camera. the only time you would do that is if you desperately needed the shutter speed. but from a results POV i think you're wrong. just MO.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
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  6. #46
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    Cool Weather or not!

    Well, if it is sunny and bright, during the day, I will do a test series to see what happens. Pushing Shutter Speed with minimal noise is the desired result. You need a seriously bright day to get that.

    At least it will be a little warmer ... flipping 20F, yesterday, 10F the day before! Even the dog is getting rather annoyed about it. Tough running a series of shots in those temperatures. The fingers start to go numb and then the camera batteries do.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  7. #47
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    theres no reason to use hi iso on a sunny and bright day, so that's not a valid test. the only time you should use a higher iso is if the light, or rather LACK of light, demands it.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
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  8. #48
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    Lightbulb When pure speed is of the essense ...

    (Standing with hands on hips, defiantly ) To get substantially higher shutter speeds, High-ISO can be a serious asset to boosting the camera's response. Perhaps a bright sunny day may be a little strong (which I did get, by the way) but the idea behind it still is valid ... if you clamp down the aperture. Each aspect of the control trio (Aperture, Shutter Speed & ISO) is a kind of "relief valve" for the other two. Obviously, fair and balanced light control is the true game plan.

    Even YOU can enjoy this one, 'Rooz" ... using what I like to refer back to as the "f/4-rule" (but, it also works with any constant aperture throughout the exercise. I tend use the f/4-setting as my base aperture setting for most of my manual flash images).

    If you have an Ev 0 at the following settings:

    f/4, 1/200 sec, ISO-200

    you can match the ISO and the Shutter Speed all the way up and down the scale and still have an Ev 0 (or any meter-setting you want maintained) meter response (or any meter-setting you want maintained).

    Go ahead and make the setting change (same subject, same metering point, same lighting) to:

    f/4, 1/400 sec, ISO-400

    The meter "needle" should be in the same place.

    Okay, let's have some real fun ....

    f/4, 1/4000 sec, ISO-4000

    or, if you are strapped at an ISO-3200 top stop ...

    f/4, 1/3200 sec, ISO-3200


    The meter indication is still in the same place, isn't it? I always thought that was kind of cool. When you are snapping aircraft barreling down at you from the heavens at Mach 1+, it is nice to have high speed shutter. Once you have your Ev determined ... just running the shutter speed up with your ISO, identically, allows for brilliant looking subject freezes, as the "good" light tends to wash out the noise from the higher ISO.

    I don't know ... it is just easier for me to remember that. Having a camera that can post a ISO-6400 shot with a 1/6400 sec shutter is kind of fascinating. Yeah, there is noise, but nothing like what shows up in low light. What is mere speckles in the brighter light of day turns into muddy-looking glops in low light.

    The value of these high speed images are determined, usually, by you-know-who. Yep, the person behind the viewfinder. Just looking at the relationships between the three settings makes it more understandable and quicker to find your "light solution."

    The camera also does this in the assisted modes (S & A). Set the ISO to 3200, the aperture to f/4 and then watch shutter speed track in the unusually higher numbers, watching it saw back and forth. You could almost be spinning around, when you pull the shutter release and get a solid looking shot at 1/8000th sec. Who needs Super SteadyShot, right?

    That's the value of high ISO outside. Put the camera in hi-speed frame advance and safely "Bungee jump" off a bridge and just see for yourself. As you are screaming toward the ground, holding the shutter release ... snapping images of the ground (or even the other way, back up toward the bridge) ... every shot is fast enough to get a solid looking image.

    Do the math ...

    Anyway ... just another aspect of these terrific devices ... that depict life versus time.

    I know SONY has got something up their sleeve that will improve on this idea ... something that is really special ...

    Name:  stop-time-function.jpg
Views: 47
Size:  322.0 KB

    Press this little button and see photography in a whole new light. "Oh, look Honey ... this one has the STOP TIME feature ..."
    Last edited by DonSchap; 12-12-2009 at 09:32 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  9. #49
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    i havent got the slightest idea why your going off on that tangent don, you put way too much techno stuff in your post for me to follow. i'm only addressing one point and that is that i dont believe underexposing a shot by 2 stops and bringing it back up in post is as effective as shooting at the higher iso to begin with.

    thats all i wanted to comment on.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
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  10. #50
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    Feb 2006
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    And I would have to agree, in most cases. Relax ... life goes on
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

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