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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooz View Post
    im still tryign to figure out what questions you want anyone to ask based on your first post.
    HINT: Basically, with the initial steps of the process, having established a "reasonable" amount of light for the image ... the question should be asked on how to manage the settings to provide a more stable-looking image and still get something usable w/o a flash or tripod, for the given amount of light.

    But, we shall see. I kind of find it interesting that no one has bitten on this opportunity to learn something. I mean, it isn't rocket science, but just something fun to work with and, perhaps, create the beginnings of a basic understanding of light management, drawbacks of using high-ISO in an intro-DSLR and the true power of in-the-camera-body stability.

    Do I really have to spell it out for you, 'Rooz'? I mean, you've been around here for a bit, haven't you?

    To coin a phrase ...

    "Let's start at the very beginning
    A very good place to start.
    When you read you begin with 'A' 'B' 'C'.

    When you image you begin with a SONY"

    Sorry ... that's my knock on the "Sound of Photography ... opps, Music."

    There are some important principles to be examined here ... and I kind of wish I had someone do that when I was a strapping youth. These cameras can be so much more useful, with a little more knowledge behind the controls. Wouldn't you agree, Mate?
    Last edited by DonSchap; 12-10-2009 at 12:52 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    2,562
    He didn't delete anything that pertained to the start of this thread. The thread got way off topic. Maybe now he can get people to ask for help and not talk about politics. We Are Starting Fresh Again

    Frank
    Sony A77
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    Slingshot 200 Bag



    http://www.flickr.com/photos/22083244@N06/

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  3. #23
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    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr_rodriguez View Post
    Don,
    Amazing how you delete comments you don't like. And you wonder why people don't want to ask you anything.
    That's because I reported you. That's the second time you've randomly injected (I believe that's how you put it the first time) politics into a discussion.
    flickr

    Canon 7D - 5D | 550EX - 430EX II - (2) PW FlexTT5 | 24-105 f4L | 70-200 f2.8L IS | 100 f2.8L IS | 50 f1.8 II

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Chicago, IL USA
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    935
    Alright, I'll bite.

    I was at an indoor party last weekend and I set the camera at ISO1600, and I have it on P mode. My photos are very yellow and people are still very blurry in my images. Nothing turned out. I don't want to use flash because it looks bad. How can I fix my images?

    I'm shooting with an A330 and the 18-55 kit lens.

    -Clueless in Chicago
    Nikon D300 | MB-D10 | Nikkor 12-24/4 | Nikkor 50/1.8 | Nikkor 70-200/2.8 VRI | Sigma 18-50/2.8 | SB-800 | SB-80DX (x4) | Radiopopper JrX Studio |

  5. #25
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    Jun 2008
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    2,204
    Quote Originally Posted by VTEC_EATER View Post
    Alright, I'll bite.

    I was at an indoor party last weekend and I set the camera at ISO1600, and I have it on P mode. My photos are very yellow and people are still very blurry in my images. Nothing turned out. I don't want to use flash because it looks bad. How can I fix my images?

    I'm shooting with an A330 and the 18-55 kit lens.

    -Clueless in Chicago
    The problem is you grabbed the wrong camera as you walked out the door
    flickr

    Canon 7D - 5D | 550EX - 430EX II - (2) PW FlexTT5 | 24-105 f4L | 70-200 f2.8L IS | 100 f2.8L IS | 50 f1.8 II

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Guelph, Ontario
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    1,903
    If you really want to use flash, you can balance the ambient light with a higher ISO or a slower shutter speed. You just have to be creative when using flash.
    Canon EOS 7D

    flickr®
    FLUIDR

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Oakland, CA
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    1,204
    The only person who deleted threads was me. Political discussions have no place here.
    Jeff Keller
    Founder/Editor, Digital Camera Resource Page

  8. #28
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    Feb 2006
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    Des Plaines, IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTEC_EATER View Post
    Alright, I'll bite.

    I was at an indoor party last weekend and I set the camera at ISO1600, and I have it on P mode. My photos are very yellow and people are still very blurry in my images. Nothing turned out. I don't want to use flash because it looks bad. How can I fix my images?

    I'm shooting with an A330 and the 18-55 kit lens.

    -Clueless in Chicago
    Hey VTEC

    Concerning White Balance ...

    Specifically, a "yellowish" overall cast is usually attributable and indicative of an improper preset of White Balance (WB) issue, which is the camera's way of identifying and compensating for the light source temperature around the camera, itself.

    More often than not, the light indoors is from a Tungsten light source. Occasionally, there are also "fluorescent" indoor light sources, but since you had identified it as "yellowish", that usually means we are in "Tungsten"-land, Toto.

    The human eye, being a complex organic device with years of evolution behind it, can immediately compensate for these shifts in light source temperature with amazing flexibility. Unfortunately, the camera, being a simple machine, is a little more sensitive to it and has to be told (sometimes manually) what type of light you are surrounded by.

    Light source temperature is measure in degrees Kelvin (K).

    To appreciate the general impact of WB on your images and not having to reinvent the understanding of it (for expediency) through the awesome power of the Internet, I'm going refer you to this page by Ken Rockwell, who has done a fairly decent write up concerning the differences that WB represents when taking images.

    Please read through this information and when you are comfortable through some experimentation with your a300, concerning it, please return and ask any further questions you may have concerning this aspect of basic photography.

    Blurry people ...

    My follow-up question in regards to this example is: "Were the people in your image sitting, dancing or Kung-fu fighting?" Motion is critical in determining how you will use your DSLR and the limitations of its settings.

    When you talk about motion, you are talking "shutter speed." It is the most crucial aspect of photography in capturing motion. In other words, the shutter has to close fast enough for the camera to adequately "freeze" the motion (if your prefer) or severely limit the blur of the motion you are getting, so that it is still capable of relating intelligently the "intent of the motion."

    Using the a330 "handheld", indoors, you should have the Super SteadyShot ("SSS") switch in the "ON" position. What this does it activate the adjustment motors of the camera's movable sensor to compensate in small amounts to "camera shake", which is the interaction between you and the a330. When you quiver, but either "stiffening up" a little too much as you hold the DSLR, the sh-sh-shudder in your muscles is translated to the sensor in most DSLRs. That subtle movement causes the image you are taking, at shutter speeds under 1/320 sec, to apparently move as the shutter opens and closes during the image taking process. The result is a fuzzy or blurred edge to the subject and other backgroiund in clear focus.

    To the untrained eye, it looks like the subject was "just" out-of-focus (OOF), but under closer scrutiny (inspecting the captured image for the true focus point), the center of sharp focus will NOT be found, as everything in the image was moving due to the camera shake. Once you arrest this shaking, a clear focus point will be found, usually in the center of the image, unless the camera was repositioned for "composition" and "framing" concerns.

    You need to know that SSS has its limitations and once aware of these, it can be used, effectively, to reduce the shake that YOU introduce into your images.

    As a practical bottom floor for shutter speed ... "SSS" simply will not be effective at speeds slower than 1/15th of second ... and that is going to require a bit of practice from you, too. But, the nice part about that is ... at 1/15th of a second shutter speed, the whole world begins to brighten substantially. That's real power, when you do not or cannot have a flash.

    EDIT (add-on)

    Movement = Shutter Speed (cont'd)

    Typically, subject movement can be summed or classified as to certain types and with corresponding shutter speeds adequate to capture or “freeze” it:

    Inanimate (not moving) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(Any shutter speed should work and your light source it the real consideration in determining it)
    Sedentary (Subject is at rest) . . . . . . . . . . . (1/30, 1/60 sec) Safe elimination of perceived motion
    Subtle (subject is moving slightly) . . . . . . . . . (1/125 sec) Usually eliminates eye blink and twitch.
    Walking . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(1/250 sec) Assumes a steady 2-3 mph gait.
    Running . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(1/500 sec) Assumes a 5-8 mph pace or easy ball throw
    Reacting/Quick action . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (1/750 sec) Assumes a 15-30 mph speed or pitch speed
    Driving . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (1/1000 sec) Up to about 40mph or freezing humming bird wings
    Flying . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (1/2000 sec) Up to about 200 mph
    Jet aircraft . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (1/4000 sec) Up to Mach 1

    Obviously, these are just "recommendations" for speed settings, but it can help you get an idea of what your camera’s Shutter Speed should be set to successfully “freeze” the situation.

    Okay, considering the time you are in a room, with no living subject. It is just "YOU and the furniture", so to speak. You need the shot and do not have a flash or a tripod. You have the luxury of not fighting movement, so your camera shutter speed should have the full range available, right? Uh, no. Unless you can place it on a table or some other stable surface ... you are going to have to "handhold" this baby.

    So, assuming normal room lighting (whatever the heck that is) and your incredibly "limited" 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 novelty "kit" lens ... away we go.

    There are two ways to approach this, from the beginning. Let's first do it the way all newbies do. Yeah, I'm talking about our old secret buddy, AUTO.

    Steps ...
    1. Place camera in AUTO Mode
    2. Remove the lens cap
    3. Turn the α330 "ON"
    4. "Frame" your subject, but try to keep the lens ZOOM under 28mm to get the most aperture width out of the lens that it can get. (Remember, we are fighting for light.)
    5. Focus and "fully" press the shutter release button and get the initial shot. We are not worried about what this one looks like, we just want to know what the camera is "thinking" when it takes it.


    You see, on the rear LCD you will get a declaration of "AUTO" under the ISO setting. Yeah, what does that mean?

    Also, you will get "AWB" in the WB selection ... again , hard to determine, huh? At least, when we "take the shot", the stats are printed ... so ISO will be at your review and probably up around 800.

    (More on this later...)
    Last edited by DonSchap; 12-10-2009 at 06:59 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    Lightbulb Blasting through the knowledge barrier ...

    If you are not interested in these "experiments" or "exercises", you can always read through this material. It is a great place to get started in Photography.

    Anyway, back to the process ...
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    Continuing on ...

    So ... based on the result of the "AUTO" shot ... you have some calculation settings for a better shot, because you know where the camera assumes the proper Exposure value (Ev 0) to be.

    Let's assume the α330 (in AUTO) spit back an "Ev 0 shot" with the following settings:

    Aperture: f/4 (we know this because that is the floor aperture of the 18~55mm lens you are using and "AUTO" often picks the widest aperture it can get, indoors. (<- put that in you mental lens bag and remember it.)

    Shutter Speed: 1/15 second

    ISO: 800

    So based on this information, we know that in 15-minutes, this empty room which we have just photographed will be filled with two dozen teenagers, all laughing, waving and torturing each other with social barbs and comments. After reviewing the earlier motion chart, which shutter speed will be demanded for a "frozen" bunch of folks?

    Answer: Probably about 1/125th, to start. Any slower and you will probably get motion blur from hands and heads.

    Okay, here we go with the calculation of the shot and where photography really becomes a course in light concepts.

    You have the current Ev 0 shot = f/4, 1/15 sec, ISO-800

    We need to get to 1/125 sec. How many f/stops is that?

    1/15 . . . 1/30 . . . 1/60 . . . 1/125 sec.

    That's 3/fstops we need from the other two elements of the camera (aperture and ISO). Here's the problem: The lens has no more aperture to give you. We are wide open, with this lens, at f/4. Therefore, it winds up being entirely up to the ISO to cover the gap.

    At Ev 0, we are at 800. What is a 3/stop improvement in ISO? double, double, double ... or 1600, 3200, 6400. So to get the same Ev 0 shot with a 1/125 sec shutter speed ... we need an f/4 aperture and we need a ISO of 6400.

    One of the sadder realities of digital photography is that ISO-6400 is a tremendously "noisy", shooting in low-light. Even if the DSLR is capable of it, it will look rather tragic once you put it on your PC for post-processing. What you can do is try and keep your shot at Ev -2, using ISO-1600 as your maximum and push it in post-processing, by using the exposure slider in Photoshop CS to provide the "missing light." It can be iffy, but the chances are that the resultant effort will look tremendously better than a pure ISO-6400 attempt for a true "Ev 0" image.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 12-10-2009 at 09:49 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

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