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  1. #21
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    multiple coverage of the exact same focal length with pretty much the exact same "quality" of glass doesn't need anyone bagging it out. it speaks for itself. if you cant see the wasted money in that then perhaps you need to pick a different hobby.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTEC_EATER View Post
    I find it funny that people rag on others for using third party glass, as though it is inferior, but when you compare it to some of the first party offerings you might find exactly why someone may choose it.

    Whether it is price point, optical quality, size/weight, etc... I think we can all say that some of the first party offerings are just not worth it. Lets take the Nikkor 17-55/2.8 for example. A nice lens with great build quality, but optically does it justify the $1500 price tag? Also, have you seen the size/weight of it? Its a behemoth for its focal length/aperture/DX format. 1.6 pounds and 86x111mm in size. Compare this to the Tamron 17-50/2.8 at .95 lbs. and 82x74mm in size. At less than 1/3 the price of the Nikkor, similar optically, and certainly much more walk around friendly due to its compact size and weight, it is a very good alternative to the "real deal" Nikkor glass. Many will say its build quality is crap, and I do agree there. I prefer the build quality of Sigma over Tamron, and Nikkors are always going to be better than either of those two, but c'mon does the build quality justify paying 3 times the price? Some may say yes, while I think a lot of others will prefer spending that extra $1000 on some other glass.

    What about the 50mm prime class? Sigma came out with a great 50/1.4 that gives the new Nikkor and definitely the current Canon 50/1.4 a run for their money. Its priced pretty high for a third party offering, but there are a number of people who prefer the Sigma to the Nikkor. I think everyone in the Canon camp are asking Canon for a revised 50/1.4 now that this Sigma is out there.

    What about the Sigma 30/1.4? Yeah its made for a crop body, but until Nikon came out with the 35/1.8 it was the only choice for a fast 30mm prime (in the Nikon camp). Even then, Canon had the 35L which was big bucks, and justifiably so, but far too rich for many peoples wallet. That lens fills a big niche in the market for both Canon and Nikon. Does it still make an impact in the Nikon camp now that the 35/1.8 came out? Ehh, its tough to say. Some may want the extra 2/3 stop of the Sigma. Its center performance is very good and I could see many people still opting for this lens over the 35/1.8. In the Canon world, it is the only alternative to the 35L, especially for the crop cams.

    I think 3rd party glass has its place, and those that say first party is the only way to go are either fan boys or completely aloof of what other glass is out there. I say, do your research, find out what is important to you in a lens, and buy the one that is best for you.
    no one said there is no place for 3rd party glass. you went off on a tangent arguing a point YOU wanted to make but you;re arguing against yourself cos at no time did anyone say what you are implying.

    buy the BEST you can AFFORD is the statement being made here. if the best you can afford is 3rd party then so be it. but lets make no mistake, in the vast majority of cases the OEM product is better.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    The light you need for f/4 lensing is supplied by God ... it's a great deal.
    And man does God supply some kind of light! Taken with the inferior 6mp crop camera body with a 17-40 f/4 lens. You're right it's crap.



    For goodness sake Don, it's one stop! I can speed up (ISO) and still beat fast glass on your system. Have a look up and down your collection...it's not very fast for the most part is it?
    Last edited by TenD; 11-15-2009 at 05:54 PM.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  4. #24
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    Talking Almost PRIMEd to the MAX!

    You know darn well that NONE of the zooms exceed an aperture f/2.8.

    Apertures of f/1.2 are almost useless, unless you are under extreme conditions and scenarios.

    So, exactly what are we saying here? I have a couple more improvements to make in my wide lenses (24 & 28 - dropping them to f/1.8) and getting autofocus into my 85mm and I am, for all intents, done. What did I miss?

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    Across the back: MF 8mm f/3.5, AF 14mm f/2.8, AF 20mm f/1.8, AF 90mm f/2.8 MACRO, AF 135mm f/1.8, AF 180mm f/3.5 MACRO, AF 200mm, f/2.8
    Across the front: AF 24mm f/2.8, AF 28mm f/2.8. AF 50mm f/1.4, MF 85mm f/1.4

    I am sure you can imagine any one of these lenses on your SONY DSLR ... the problem that I seem to have is that I don't imagine very well.

    One of the qualities of these lenses is that they sit 'squarely' in the backpack, up to the 180mm and 200mm. That makes for some solid transport and your backpack not deforming when you pull one.

    I am considering the 35mm f/1.4 ... but, that seems almost redundant and it needs a digital coating.

    Of course, there's the SONY STF 135mm f/2.8 [4.5] "special focus effects" lens, but that's a novelty, MF, and can really wait a lot longer.

    The Zeiss zooms can also wait, as far as I am concerned. Unless I am in some bizarre focal gap, I have a PRIME to cover it. (shrug) All of it, powered by light.

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    Last edited by DonSchap; 11-15-2009 at 09:59 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  5. #25
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    Yep and f/4 fixed aperture is a great compromise, high quality, enough speed, lower cost.
    Digital coating digital smoating, none....none of my lenses are digitally coated, they do just fine for their f/4 selves.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  6. #26
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    Now, carefully remove the lens hood, sir, and place it on the hood of the car. Thank you. Now, please aim your camera to about twenty degrees to the left of the direct sunlight, careful not to garner in the sun when you do ... and select a subject to photograph.

    FIRE!

    FIRE!

    FIRE!

    Examine the cacophony of reflections ...

    Thank you.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Now, carefully remove the lens hood, sir, and place it on the hood of the car. Thank you. Now, please aim your camera to about twenty degrees to the left of the sun ... and select a subject to photograph.
    now there's a shot you dont wanna miss. a lens on the bonnet of a car. lol
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
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  8. #28
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    Feb 2006
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    Cool 35mm digital let down

    If SONY/Zeiss reinvented the 35mm f/1.4 G "D", I would be a lot more interested in it. The original Minolta design for film cameras has not been touched, just rebadged.

    Konica Minolta AF 35mm F1.4 G lens introduction : Konica Minolta Photo Imaging, Inc., has developed the Konica Minolta AF 35mm F1.4G (D) lens (Product name has been tentatively named for this release, with the final name to be announced at later date) interchangeable lens for SLR cameras of the Konica Minolta Dynax/Maxxum Series. An overview of the lens is given herein. Launch plan of this lens is in spring of 2006. The Konica Minolta AF 35mm F1.4G (D) was developed as the successor model of the Minolta AF 35mm F1.4G lens that has been well accepted amongst users for the beautiful defocused effect rendered around the aperture. This lens was developed as an interchangeable lens for the Dynax/Maxxum Series.

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    Last edited by DonSchap; 11-15-2009 at 06:38 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Bay Area, California
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    1,546
    Quote Originally Posted by VTEC_EATER View Post
    Many will say its build quality is crap, and I do agree there. I prefer the build quality of Sigma over Tamron,


    U think so? How come? I just bought the 17-50 a few weeks ago and have a Sigma EX lens and I feel like the build quality is fine. Sure its plastic where the Sigma is metal but honestly its nice cuz the lens is much lighter. If the mounting wasnt metal then maybe I'd complain a bit. Just my opinion of course.

    As for the place for third party lenses, I agree that they will always hold an important roll. Can the Tamron go toe to toe with the Nikon? Prolly not.. But honestly in real world use could you tell the difference between the 2 without pixel hunting? Prolly not. So why spend 4 digital for a relatively small gain? Leave that to the pros who have the money to do so.
    Nikon D90, D40 Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 | Sigma 50-150mm f/2.8 | Nikkor 35mm f/1.8
    Vertical Grip, SB-600, SB-24, Sunpak 433D, Metz 40AF-4N, Alienbees CyberSync Triggers

    R3G Media | Flickr

    "You're pulling some awesome action shots with a cam and lens that are supposed to be rubbish ! " - Rooz

  10. #30
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    Nov 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Now, carefully remove the lens hood, sir, and place it on the hood of the car. Thank you. Now, please aim your camera to about twenty degrees to the left of the direct sunlight, careful not to garner in the sun when you do ... and select a subject to photograph.

    FIRE!

    FIRE!

    FIRE!

    Examine the cacophony of reflections ...

    Thank you.
    Why on earth would anyone want to do that? What am I taking a photo of that has me shooting into the sun when I wouldn't turn around and shoot with the sun lighting my subject? Why the heck would I take my hood off? And even if I did take my hood off, why wouldn't I shade the sun with my hand or a notebook? I am sure you could concoct a scenario where this would be the case, but then let's go play the lottery shall we?
    Last edited by TenD; 11-16-2009 at 02:17 AM.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

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