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  1. #701
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    602
    As always an interesting back and forth over SSS vs. lens based stabilization. In my opinion, regardless of the advances in both of these technologies, the best stabilization method is the tried and true low-tech tripod. But, alas, you can't always set up a tripod. Just try doing it, for example, in a busy subway station (without a permit) and the authorities will be crawling all over you in minutes. Hence the benefit of either in-body or lens based IS for those times when you just have to shoot hand-held.

    We can argue days and days over positives and negatives of each system. I don't know as though anyone, such as Popular Photography, has undertaken objective testing to see if one system is able to produce measurably sharper images under identical conditions. So we are left with our own individual choices as to which system best fits our needs and budget. For myself, when I bought my A900 more than 3-years ago, I went back and forth over whether to go with Canon, Nikon or Sony. In the end, the combination of the FF A900 and the prospect of picking-up lesser expensive legacy Minolta glass where I would still have the benefit of hand-held stabilization seemed the best solution for my personal needs.

    In my mind the solution to this debate is simple. Until someone actually comes up with objective test results showing marked quality differences between in-body versus lens IS, the correct answer of which of the two systems to use is "it depends on the individual user's needs, budget and long-term photography plan."
    Darin Wessel
    α 900
    Zooms: Tamron SP AF70-200mm f2.8 Di LD Macro; Sigma 28-90mm D macro, Konica-Minolta 18-70 f3.5-5.6
    Primes: Minolta 28mm f2.8; Sony 50mm f1.4
    Minolta RC-1000 remote commander

    Film:
    Calumet Cambo CC400 4x5 View Camera
    YashikaMat 6x6 TLR (other accessories)
    Minolta Maxxum 7000 w/ Minolta 35-80mm f/4-5.6 & Minolta 2800 flash
    Minolta Maxxum 5000i & Vivitar 728 AFM flash
    What's next???

  2. #702
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Wild, Wonderful, Wyoming
    Posts
    1,043
    Quote Originally Posted by DWessel View Post
    In my mind the solution to this debate is simple. Until someone actually comes up with objective test results showing marked quality differences between in-body versus lens IS, the correct answer of which of the two systems to use is "it depends on the individual user's needs, budget and long-term photography plan."
    I appreciate your rational objective post. If Don were to present his arguments this way, there would be no argument. Legacy glass is great for Sony users and makes complete sense, but again if you listen to Don, all of this glass is junk, it's not enhanced for digital.

    Actually DPreview has done testing on stabilization in their reviews of a particular body or lens. They have determined the Sony SSS is not as effective as a lens based stabilization system. I'd have to go search for a while to find it again, but it's there in their reviews. I've already posted it here several times, it's been ignored. Basically it's because in body is a one size fits all solution, where lens based is tailored to a particular lens and focal length. A longer lens is going to need a lot more correction than a shorter lens, and unless the sensor can move enough for the big guns, it's going to be less effective.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  3. #703
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560

    Angry Again... direct MISS!

    You still do not get the message here... put BOTH options in the camera. In body AND in the lens. Give people a choice... and more so, a chance.

    This is goofy. You continue to argue them separately... screw that noise... enjoy BOTH!
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  4. #704
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Wild, Wonderful, Wyoming
    Posts
    1,043
    Uhhh, afaik Sony hasn't done this either...They have half the equation and Canikon has the other half, who really has the advantage here? With Canikon I have superior ISO performance and IS...no brainer. Like Rooz said the actual practical necessary use of stabilization is a very small percentage of shots. Nikon had VR, Canon had IS, Minolta had to come up with a system(selling point)...SSS.

    I see you mention both but is this really practical? It may be, but Canikon has a system that works, and works better for about the same cost. The only place SSS has an advantage is in lenses that don't have IS. I'm perfectly happy to use higher ISO and guarantee I have no motion blur, whether it's from my subject moving or me moving.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  5. #705
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    You still do not get the message here... put BOTH options in the camera. In body AND in the lens. Give people a choice... and more so, a chance.

    This is goofy. You continue to argue them separately... screw that noise... enjoy BOTH!
    Well this is really goofy, Don. See, we don't see you complain about SONY not stabilizing their lenses. You say you want BOTH in-lens and in-the-body stabilization, but only complain about Canikon putting it on lenses only. Where's the complain about Sony?? Sony doesn't stabilize their lenses, and third-party lens manufacturers like Tamron tend to NOT stabilize the Sony version of their lenses.
    Tell you what you should complain about: Sony not hiring better engineers and/or programmers. See, Sony builds Nikon sensors, yet somehow Nikon has better high ISO performance. What gives? It must be the engineering and/or programming done by Nikon. Seems like Sony should at the same level as Nikon, but isn't.

  6. #706
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
    Posts
    10,424
    Quote Originally Posted by TenD View Post
    Sure hope those kids aren't moving, Don, yup kids are usually sitting very still...
    lol exactly. This is exactly what i was alluding to in my post. When taking pics of people VR becomes almost redundant. If im not shooting at 1/80 as a bare minimum, i can count on deleting most of the images. And you're story of the salesman is spot on. Thats exactly how SSS is sold...look you can shoot at 1/8th of a second !! lol yeah, good, my kids will be a blurry mess but the dinner table will be sharp as hell; cant remember what the kids looked like but look at how beautiful the mrs set the table !
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  7. #707
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560
    @ jrr... I get stability "full time"... with in-the-body stabilization. I really don't give a care about any of the lenses. It is the Canon and Nikon crowds that are ALWAYS getting the short end of the stick with this one. I gave up trying to petition them to "do the right thing" for ALL of their users. I guess I'll just leave that to you. Drop me a note if they ever do come around.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 09-04-2011 at 10:55 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  8. #708
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
    Posts
    10,424
    Its like talking to a vacuum.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  9. #709
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by Rooz View Post
    Its like talking to a vacuum.
    Holy smokes, that's about right.

  10. #710
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Wild, Wonderful, Wyoming
    Posts
    1,043
    Quote Originally Posted by Rooz View Post
    Its like talking to a vacuum.
    LOL, a teflon vacuum.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

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