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  1. #441
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    God's Country - Australia
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    10,424
    lol i love it. any grade LOWER than expectation is unfair, shows bias or is the fault of the academic staff. any good grades are of course completely justified and purely down to hard work and perfect results.

    i love the no blame, no personal responsibility culture of the politically correct modern world.
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  2. #442
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    602
    Grades are often overrated. In college, I knew a number of people that were really good at regurgitating what the professor wanted to hear to get the "A." But ask them about a concept or topic that was covered in class a couple of months later and they didn't have a clue.
    Darin Wessel
    α 900
    Zooms: Tamron SP AF70-200mm f2.8 Di LD Macro; Sigma 28-90mm D macro, Konica-Minolta 18-70 f3.5-5.6
    Primes: Minolta 28mm f2.8; Sony 50mm f1.4
    Minolta RC-1000 remote commander

    Film:
    Calumet Cambo CC400 4x5 View Camera
    YashikaMat 6x6 TLR (other accessories)
    Minolta Maxxum 7000 w/ Minolta 35-80mm f/4-5.6 & Minolta 2800 flash
    Minolta Maxxum 5000i & Vivitar 728 AFM flash
    What's next???

  3. #443
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560

    Lightbulb Grading targets

    "Rooz", while I can assure you that an "A" grade is obviously a solid target for academic achievement (it factors importantly for "honor roll" consideration, scholastic cash awards ... and the like), but as Darin contends, getting the value out of the course should really be the more important aspect. It often depends upon your point of view and the real academic honesty of the scholastic environment you find yourself in.

    For me, it is both, academics & art creation. I enrolled in this institution to experience the world of education that I had never fully immersed myself in, before. I have not survived the past five decades on my good looks, alone. Yes, I know there are many that would debate that point, but let's get real. While I have no scholastic motive other than vanity, I feel my reasons are very pure in what I am trying to achieve. I just want to do the best that I can, with what I have ... and what I have, personally, is a monstrous step above and beyond the norm for most of the other students in the school. I put my money where my mind is. In other words, I fully expect to achieve "A" level work, because I am fiscally removing the problems that could result in a lesser grade. Creativity factors in there, somewhere, but to be honest, that is an "intangible." Art is where you see it, as I have found out.

    So, despite what YOU, may think, mate ... I am thinking grade "A" or "Houston, we have a problem." If the other students want to step up and compete ... they need to do so. I suggest they get out the plastic, just like the rest of us poor buggers, and pony up. Personally, I really want to see these fellow photographers kicking tail and getting top-drawer grades for top-drawer work and not being "gifted" grades, just because they (or their parents) are paying the substantial tuition they do. It warps their perspective on the working world and employers tend to know this. Their portfolio says it all, in the end. You have to have a substantive example of every media-production class in that volume of work. Your have an 11-week class to get it into presentable shape, at the end of your adventure.

    Yeah, I guess I live in a fairy-land, when it comes to solid work. The portfolio-class is not the place to finally learn your craft. Imagine: rewarded for tangible work ethic and talent. What was I thinking? Oh well, guess it's back to school. Sloppin' expensive ink on expensive paper. I may just learn ... eventually. Time's a wastin'

    BTW: You can imply a lot of things from this discussion ... and be right most of the time. There is a lot of room in it. It kind of goes with the territory. Right is right, wrong is right, and three wrongs make a left. Welcome to the World of Art.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 02-19-2011 at 10:28 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  4. #444
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    ... and what I have, personally, is a monstrous step above and beyond the norm for most of the other students in the school. I put my money where my mind is. In other words, I fully expect to achieve "A" level work, because I am fiscally removing the problems that could result in a lesser grade. Creativity factors in there, somewhere, but to be honest, that is an "intangible." Art is where you see it, as I have found out.

    So, despite what YOU, may think, mate ... I am thinking grade "A" or "Houston, we have a problem." If the other students want to step up and compete ... they need to do so. I suggest they get out the plastic, just like the rest of us poor buggers, and pony up.
    Ah, the hubris...
    Ok, Don, I think you are, by implication, doing two things:
    1. Thinking you can buy your grades with better equipment
    2. Bringing up the old argument that good gear makes good photographs

    Many flame wars have occurred discussing #2. And it is obvious that, while good gear helps, it does not create a good photograph by itself. That is where the photographer comes in.
    In this very website, I have seen many, many photographs taken by people with much "lesser" gear than what you claim to have that just blow anything you've done out of the water. Sorry, but it's true. Can you improve? Of course, we all can. I sincerely hope you grow to be one of the best posting here. But good "glass" and spending money doesn't mean everything you take a picture is great and worthy of an "A" in class.

    J.R.

  5. #445
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560

    Red face Reading it wrong ...

    J.R. - I think we all agree that "natural talent" in a terrific thing to have, unfortunately ... it is a rare thing, too. I would suggest that over 90% of all shooters are "learning." While my work is stretched to encompass what may be required for artistic notoriety, in this school ... it is on an even plane. Having the bare necessities for taking images may be just dandy for the novice, ad hoc shooters on the street, but when you get to institutional learning ... you need to step up. You are presented with a myriad of shooting issues which usually have a totally different solution to them that just bringing the camera to your face and blasting away. Admittedly, it's your party, though, and you actually can buy your way into a better image. Believe me, I have seen it done. If you have more ... yeah, you can often do more! Much like having more colors in your paintbox ... there's more to dry out, right? Nonsense ... the wider palate is a source of inspiration and advanced thinking. Developing your colors of more than just one ... and being minimalist in such an environment usually results in a crap critique ... unless that is your intent.

    An anecdote: On almost every shoot I find myself wanting ... for a filter, a gel, a different light modifier ... doggone it, it is always something. Cinefoil can be your best friend, although it's kind of pricey. $22 for 12" x 50' roll ... and all this stuff is a pain in the rear end to haul around from shoot to shoot. You really do need to scout your shoots out and mentally tabulate what it is you are going to need to make it all work ... and even then, more often than not, it is a calculated risk. The shot you finally get may not necessarily be the first one you sought to create. You roll with it, right?

    The final project of the current Advanced Lighting class requires 9 images ... with 3 different types of lighting (one light, two lights, and multiple lights) against three different themes. Well, that certainly isn't the on-camera flash, is it?

    I mean, that's about it in a nut shell. Don't complain when someone else does add fuel to the fire. That's what living in the big, bad world is all about. I'm just sayin' ... modesty usually gets you a seat ... right over there, in the back row. If you don't believe in your work or are willing to commit to it ... why ask anyone else to?
    Last edited by DonSchap; 02-19-2011 at 12:19 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  6. #446
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
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    don don don...look, im not going to dissect those posts although there is much of it that honestly had me shaking my head. besides JR has pretty much picked up on the "buy the grade" points i thought stuck out most.

    all i will address is what i originally pointed out; that you believe the only conceivable reason that you would not get an A was cos of some bias towards you. no introspection, no self critique...just that its UNFAIR. then you go on some rant about how it was unfair due to some profound cause you stood up for which rocked the establishment so they malevolently conspired against the lone rebel and gave that person...the hero in this story...(YOU of course)...a lower grade.

    i mean seriously, it had me laughing so hard i was snorting. let Egypt have their rebel forces to overthrow a dictator... Illinois have Don Schap goddamit...where the hell is CNN !! lmfaoooooooo
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  7. #447
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560

    Red face Not looking for recognition

    "Rooz", I will be perfectly honest, here. I am not looking for any recognition. In fact, I have been told that my "grade reversal" was a true 'first' in the history of the school location, for whatever that is worth. (shrug) To me, it was pure vindication and the fact that no instructor or administrator is going to 'unfairly' roll over or manipulate the course of my work, as a friggin' payback for some perceived slight.

    You can laugh as you wish ... but, I would not want it happening to ANY student and I am hoping I have opened the door to a more fair system for those that warrant it and are smart enough to invoke its power, when they get "unfairly" imposed upon by someone with an axe to grind.

    Going forward, it is my fervent hope that none of this silliness will rear its ugly head, again. It is not only embarrassing when it gets resolved by the higher ups, but it also is a hell of a waste of people's precious time. There is plenty do without purposely mucking it up for the students. What I was told would only take a week to flip, took nearly six weeks to correct!

    I ask you: What kind of nonsense is that?


    Believe me, it is not even humorous looking back on it. It is just ... well, you can fill in the blank, as I have a myriad of words that are not all that pleasing to the ear. If you cannot sympathize, so be it.

    I wish I could say "I won", but it is not that simple. The politics involved cannot even be gracious enough for me to have a victory I can truly tout. The entire situation is summarized as just another sad statement of people abusing the power they have been entrusted with, in their own vain way, and not to the benefit of anyone, in the end. You just have to walk away, a bit disgusted and, hopefully, the wiser for it. You get what you pay for, right?
    Last edited by DonSchap; 02-19-2011 at 08:08 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  8. #448
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    J.R. - I think we all agree that "natural talent" in a terrific thing to have, unfortunately ... it is a rare thing, too. I would suggest that over 90% of all shooters are "learning." While my work is stretched to encompass what may be required for artistic notoriety, in this school ... it is on an even plane. Having the bare necessities for taking images may be just dandy for the novice, ad hoc shooters on the street, but when you get to institutional learning ... you need to step up. You are presented with a myriad of shooting issues which usually have a totally different solution to them that just bringing the camera to your face and blasting away. Admittedly, it's your party, though, and you actually can buy your way into a better image. Believe me, I have seen it done. If you have more ... yeah, you can often do more! Much like having more colors in your paintbox ... there's more to dry out, right? Nonsense ... the wider palate is a source of inspiration and advanced thinking. Developing your colors of more than just one ... and being minimalist in such an environment usually results in a crap critique ... unless that is your intent.

    An anecdote: On almost every shoot I find myself wanting ... for a filter, a gel, a different light modifier ... doggone it, it is always something.
    Don,
    Besides what Rooz said, which had me laughing so hard I couldn't breathe, you're stuck in gear mode. Not that you'll listen...
    But, what I am reading from you is always "boy, if only I had that one more thing, my shoots would be awesome...", instead of dealing with the challenge and finding a way to DEAL with it. I don't think Ansel Adams kept saying "boy, I can't photograph today because I don't have the right gels (if they even had those then)", or whatever. I think that is what photographers are supposed to do.
    That is why I, in my own self-education, are taking to using prime lenses. Not because they are sharper, but because I have to think about the composition, and not think that I can zoom in or out out of a situation. I have to move my lazy feet.
    Just saying...

  9. #449
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560

    Thumbs up Primed for imaging

    No, I can agree with prime lens usage. I have an entire set of them for many reasons, but they do force you to become clever. In the studio, that is usually what goes with me. The TAMRON SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di is a terrific portrait lens on the α850 Full Frame. I find the two 135mm I have are a little "long" for the two studios the school has, so it rarely gets used there. I would have to shoot diagonally to get a wide enough spread.

    Aside from being a little slow to focus, you would be hard pressed to beat the image you can get as close as an inch away with that 90mm MACRO lens! A true bargain at $300

    My upcoming assignment may have me relegated to creative studio and lighting work, once again. The subjects deal with Subjugation, Struggle and Liberation. Sounds a lot like what I just went through, to be honest. Unfortunately, that would make for a pretty boring photoshoot, as it was more paperwork and argument, than demonstrative action.

    I do hope your sides quit aching, soon.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 02-19-2011 at 08:27 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  10. #450
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
    Posts
    10,424
    Hey you're one of the good guys deep down don. More power to ya buddy.
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