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  1. #31
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    Dec 2006
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    God's Country - Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Well, despite your take on things, 'Rooz', old buddy ...

    I found myself quite impressed with the school's operation and assets. When the subject of fanboy-ism came up, I was informed that several students were SONY users. The school uses Nikon D80s for the early courses and I guess that makes sense, since you can pick up a Nikon camera almost anywhere. If I were an uninformed student of the arts ... and only had the "chimping" Ashton Kutcher commercials to refer to, I'd probably fall for all that crap, too. Boo-yah!

    After a couple hour discussion, covering my prior scholastic work, experience and inventions, I was stunned when the interviewer laughed and said, "Man, once you have that degree, you need to teach here."

    Well, perhaps that was honest ... perhaps it was just to get student admissions up. Who knows, I've done a lot more than most students, at this level, and he made no bones about my being the most interesting interview he had ever had.

    Wow, 'Rooz', you would have been spectacular (wink wink, nudge nudge).

    Anyway ... it is not a cheap effort, to be sure. Tuition w/o the "Nikon" starter kit is right around $22,500/ yr. The rough evaluation has completion of my Bachelors Degree at about 5-quarters, or about $35,000 in real money. After reviewing financial aid, in this regard, with the 20-year repayment plan and various grants has this quite affordable.

    Looking forward, they posted a 88% placement for the students, last year, even in this economy. That bodes well for success. Ongoing student opportunities abound with the Career Development department, constantly posting part-time and full-time positions as they arrive. Heck, they even have a veteran Playboy photographer teaching a couple classes. That definitely has possibilities.
    yeah, all good. like i said...lets hope they teach execution aswell as theory. then we'll be in for a real treat...PHOTOS of things. lol
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
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  2. #32
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    Feb 2006
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    Des Plaines, IL
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    9,559
    One of the things I did enjoy was 'assignment work' ... where I had a goal and a definite item in mind. It was there I left and found ways to "spiff it up" and not be as "common" as the rest of the class. Sometimes that works, sometimes not. But the best aspect was ... hey, it was my work ... my imagination ... my personality. Unfortunately, photography for money often requires you do as the "art director" (be it a professional or the customer) tells you. Provide a service, not a personality. Believe me, a lot of people lose interest then this happens. Takes the hobby right out of it.

    You want to be common ... one thing is for certain: you will have lots of company. God bless ya.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 02-08-2010 at 11:07 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  3. #33
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    Dec 2006
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    God's Country - Australia
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    i prefer to be common and get things in focus.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    602
    In catching up with this discussion.

    Structured education vs. life experience. Structured education can be a very good thing. That's not to say that you can't learn just as much on your own without getting a piece of paper at the end. But, Don is right ... for better or worse, our society looks at the piece of paper as often more important than the substance of the person seeking the job. And, quite often it's not just the diploma, but where the diploma is from. As a professor of mine once said, pound for pound you will receive a better law school education from UCLA than Harvard, but a Harvard law school degree will open more doors. There's no reason why our society would treat photographers different, unless you just happen to luck out and have your work identified as the next coming of Irving Penn or such noted photographers.

    That said, the concentrated environment of formal photography education, even if covering things you already know, can be beneficial. I for one get to see work from other students which helps give ideas. (This site also helps with the same concept.) Besides, you can still learn new things covering the basics.

    To video or not to video, that is the question. The DSLR-video combination is undoubtedly a marketing/consumer based wave. Just look at cell phones which used to just be a phone and have transformed into phone, camera, micro-computer, game player, internet device, gps, and soon to be credit card-purchasing device.

    Will DSLR video take off as part of fine-arts photography, fashion photography or product photography? Only time will tell. There are plenty of traditional film techniques that transmute into multi-media art. Painting of B&W photos or Posterization for example.

    The Professional -- analog or digital. I for one am amazed that some of the purveyors of web-based photographic images consider professional submissions as consisting of 5x7 or larger large format negatives which they then digitize. Digital submissions, the full-frame Sony A900 (and probably the A850), just barely makes the grade in terms of resolution sought for such submissions. Perhaps this is just a means for these purveyors to avoid bombardment from the masses of John and Jane Doe with entry level cameras from submitting photos they deem fantastic which the majority of people wouldn't give more than a 1/10 second glance.
    Darin Wessel
    α 900
    Zooms: Tamron SP AF70-200mm f2.8 Di LD Macro; Sigma 28-90mm D macro, Konica-Minolta 18-70 f3.5-5.6
    Primes: Minolta 28mm f2.8; Sony 50mm f1.4
    Minolta RC-1000 remote commander

    Film:
    Calumet Cambo CC400 4x5 View Camera
    YashikaMat 6x6 TLR (other accessories)
    Minolta Maxxum 7000 w/ Minolta 35-80mm f/4-5.6 & Minolta 2800 flash
    Minolta Maxxum 5000i & Vivitar 728 AFM flash
    What's next???

  5. #35
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    Feb 2006
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    Des Plaines, IL
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    Angry It's a brand new day ... NOT!

    Quote Originally Posted by jekostas View Post
    Oh, and drop the whole Obama-nation schtick. The US (and by extension Canada) have always placed a high value on expertise and education. It's nothing new, and nothing bad.
    The point here is that the nation is being mis-led ... into believing that going ahead with top drawer education will, somehow, forestall the inevitable day when you will actually need to get a job ... and there WILL be a job there, waiting for you to obtain.

    I contend that all we are going to have are a lot of unemployed, higher-educated people banging at the White House door, asking, "WTF?" when the government educational loans start coming due. Jobs are not coming back to America ... NAFTA saw to that, when Clinton signed it into Law and also turned the lending practices of the Federal Housing Authority/Banking Institutions on full blast and allowed people without real means to obtain mock credit-worthiness and fostered subsequent collapse of an inflated housing market.

    The house of cards has fallen ... and there is no real method being put in place to rebuild something that is really substantial. The little pig with all the bricks went to China.

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    Last edited by DonSchap; 10-29-2009 at 04:23 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    9,559

    Thumbs up Financial obstacles ... clear

    Financial Wherewithal: Well, I spent over two hours working through the financial aspects of rejoining the back to school bunch. Not a cheap run, but doable ... if there is that magical job at the end of the "education rainbow." In fact, I actually wound up with a couple hundred in "extra usable cash" from grants, government loans and other financial instruments at the end of it all.

    Academic continuity: I wound up with only three "film" and "ultra-specific" photography classes not actually transferring, but my entire "undergrad-required" did, so that is DONE (yeah!) There is nothing left to take and those low-end classes were totally as cheap as I could have gotten them. "Transferring in" is definitely the way to go, if you are looking to save some serious overall cash. I paid my own way through my Associates program with effectively no help (financial assistance) from my employers or other sources for a long, long time.

    By the end of the meeting: So ... a few more signatures ... and it's back to school, in January, 2010 and using their career resources to find photography employment in the coming months. Hopefully, my days with constantly fighting ... no, strike that ... because this is serious ... literally dying from stress/paranoia in "IT" have come to a merciful end. With that continual zoo of limited funds, constant network assault and the endless political nonsense from executives and other people who have no idea how difficult maintain a working 100% 7/24 network really is ... finally, my blood pressure is back to something resembling "normal", but the damage is done. Let the virus-writers and hackers pick on someone else for a while.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 11-05-2009 at 04:48 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    325
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    NAFTA saw to that, when Clinton signed it into Law and also turned the lending practices of the Federal Housing Authority/Banking Institutions on full blast and allowed people without real means to obtain mock credit-worthiness and fostered subsequent collapse of an inflated housing market.

    The house of cards has fallen ... and there is no real method being put in place to rebuild something that is really substantial. The little pig with all the bricks went to China.

    Name:  brick-pig-in-China.jpg
Views: 216
Size:  30.9 KB
    Don,
    You need to get your facts straight.
    NAFTA was done by George H. W. Bush. Nothing for Clinton to sign due to the nature of the trade agreement, AND it was a done deal by the time Clinton came along. But he didn't contest it...
    What Clinton DID to, however, was sign a repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which had set up a lot of restrictions on what financial institutions could do (I'm oversimplifying). However, a Republican Congress wrote the law to repeal the prior Act.
    So...neither side is free of blame. Quit blaming everything on one side, when the other is just as much to blame, if not more.
    Oh, and quit getting your "news" from Fox News

  8. #38
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    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    Thumbs down Fair & Balanced ... hmm, where, pray tell?

    Quote Originally Posted by jr_rodriguez View Post
    Don,
    You need to get your facts straight.
    NAFTA was done by George H. W. Bush. Nothing for Clinton to sign due to the nature of the trade agreement, AND it was a done deal by the time Clinton came along. But he didn't contest it...
    What Clinton DID to, however, was sign a repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which had set up a lot of restrictions on what financial institutions could do (I'm oversimplifying). However, a Republican Congress wrote the law to repeal the prior Act.
    So...neither side is free of blame. Quit blaming everything on one side, when the other is just as much to blame, if not more.
    Oh, and quit getting your "news" from Fox News
    Yes ... the "rest" of the news bunch is "fair and balanced."

    They could not even be bothered to report the fiasco going on in Ft. Hood, TX, today. Probably the biggest bit of news in the country ... literally SUPPRESSED (or, at the very least, IGNORED) by the big three network news organizations. Why? Because it "offends" the senses, folks. I have a strange feeling that is another religiously-inspired mushroom cloud, just waiting to be seen. Some military members just do not want to go ... but, that isn't in the job description. When they say "GO" ... you go!
    Last edited by DonSchap; 11-05-2009 at 06:38 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,559

    Smile Oh my ... is that the school bell?

    So ... I am officially a student, once again, only this time with a completely professional goal at the end of the studies. Cripes, it cost enough!

    My nighttime will be filled with classroom ... and hopefully, some possible networking connections to begin a business approach with the camera in hand. The important aspects of school are not so much the education, but who you might meet along the way. They are going to assume you are learning the standard material, by virtue of the grade you get, but impressing your prospective customers is really where the bread and butter lie.

    A most interesting week coming up ...
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Posts
    788
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    So ... I am officially a student, once again, only this time with a completely professional goal at the end of the studies. Cripes, it cost enough!

    My nighttime will be filled with classroom ... and hopefully, some possible networking connections to begin a business approach with the camera in hand. The important aspects of school are not so much the education, but who you might meet along the way. They are going to assume you are learning the standard material, by virtue of the grade you get, but impressing your prospective customers is really where the bread and butter lie.

    A most interesting week coming up ...
    Very cool. I may try to do the same before long. I am actually taking a darkroom class over the next couple of months, and I'm going through a history of photography class via podcast (for free) right now as well. But a proper set of courses seems pretty appealing to me for the near future.

    What kind of classes are involved? At least what are you taking this semester?

    Good luck, have fun, let us know how it goes. And what the heck they teach!
    Jason Hamilton
    Selective Frame

    EOS 5D - Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 35 f/2, EF 50mm f/1.8 Mk II, EF 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 (with EOS adapter), 430EX, Canon S90
    Nikon FE - Nikkor 35mm f/2 AI'd, Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 AI, Nikkor 105mm f/2.5 AI, F to EF adapter, 2xVivitar 285, other lighting stuff
    Mamiya C220 - 80mm f/2.8

    Gear List flickr

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