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  1. #521
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    Now Don thats the kind of model you need to be shooting! You could make a very nice catalog with her.

  2. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkie1263 View Post
    I think I see a bird in the bush!!! I don't have the confidence to work with a real model. She is only ten minuets away.

    Frank
    Frank, look at the back of the girl's arms. I mean, they are like totally blown out. Whoever took this shot kind of screwed it up. Admittedly, working in direct sunlight is a mother bear, but you learn as you burn. You would gain confidence by working with the model. You will not get the same degree of expectation from family. You will only learn stage-presence by getting on stage.

    So, join Model Mayhem, send the girl an invite e-mail and see what you can work out. Burn up a few ga-zillion electrons and see what you can do. God knows, the price is right ... right?
    Last edited by DonSchap; 04-28-2011 at 11:22 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade906 View Post
    Now Don that's the kind of model you need to be shooting! You could make a very nice catalog with her.
    Man ... wait until you start working with "real" models and you will see ... talent does not have to be extremely attractive. Some of these gals have a lot to learn ... and at eighteen ... they better have started a lot earlier than yesterday.

    Ah, you'll see.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  4. #524
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    God's Country - Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Frank, look at the back of the girl's arms. I mean, they are like totally blown out. Whoever took this shot kind of screwed it up. Admittedly, working in direct sunlight is a mother bear, but you learn as you burn. You would gain confidence by working with the model. You will not get the same degree of expectation from family. You will only learn stage-presence by getting on stage.

    So, join Model Mayhem, send the girl an invite e-mail and see what you can work out. Burn up a few ga-zillion electrons and see what you can do. God knows, the price is right ... right?
    Agree, the blown highlights are an issue but the photo itself is absolutely stunning. Beautifully constructed and composed. You would be wise to learn from this sort of shot if you want to keep shooting models rather than focussing on the technical issues it has.
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  5. #525
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    Sunshine ... on my shoulder ... makes me unhappy ...

    Rooz,

    The technical aspects of a good shot is what makes it a "good shot."

    A good photographic concept has its own merit, but ANY hack can do that with an instant camera. Combining the two is what makes the photograph a piece of art or something ... somewhat less. As trained (or in training) camera operators, our respective technical capabilities is what we have to use to separate us from the rest of the untrained, unappreciative camera abusers.

    While the concept is not going unappreciated ... turning a girl's back into a light panel is not quite ... worthy. Sorry.

    This image is precisely why they design this "bad boy" (<- click on link) Just because you are too cheap to invest in this kind of light management ... does not excuse the shot. Signed, Mr. Picky
    Last edited by DonSchap; 04-29-2011 at 02:00 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Rooz,

    The technical aspects of a good shot is what makes it a "good shot."

    A good photographic concept has its own merit, but ANY hack can do that with an instant camera. Combining the two is what makes the photograph a piece of art or something ... somewhat less. As trained (or in training) camera operators, our respective technical capabilities is what we have to use to separate us from the rest of the untrained, unappreciative camera abusers.

    While the concept is not going unappreciated ... turning a girl's back into a light panel is not quite ... worthy. Sorry.

    This image is precisely why they design this "bad boy" (<- click on link) Just because you are too cheap to invest in this kind of light management ... does not excuse the shot. Signed, Mr. Picky
    No, the technical aspects of a shot make it a better shot. Not the other way around. Its the icing on the cake if you will. Technical proficiency is nice to have and we all strive for it but in truth, to use your analogy, any hack with the right budget can make a technically great shot with all the right gear but still fail to create memorable images. real photographers see the shot and execute a wondeful moment as the main priority. Some, if not all, of the greatest photographers of all time would lack the technical precision we demand today but it takes nothing away from their imagery in the slightest.

    Sure you can break this gig down into pixels, apertures and variations of a 255 histogram but thats not what the heart of photograpny is. Thats not what inspires people or evokes an emotional response. It is the image. Its not ansels gear or technical precision i envy...its his eyes. If only i could see what he saw the way he saw it...

    my old man who got me into phtography decades ago said something to me that has stuck with me to this day. Its a common saying so its not like he invented it, but he introduced me to the concept so ill credit him...

    "theres a shot in there somewhere, you just have to find it."

    i love that saying...i LOVE it cos its the essence photography. To this day i still critically look at some of my shots and ask did i find the shot ? Think about that saying for a second before you answer cos if you can appreciate it, if you can really undersatnd it you will take your photography to another level.
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  7. #527
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    Rooz, whilst I agree with you that a great image is about content rather than technical excellence, seeing as Don finds himself in an educational environment I think he has an imperative to concentrate on the technical issues or grades will suffer. It's very easy for a Tutor to identify technical deficiencies and not so easy to evaluate artistic impression. In addition, once you have the technical side nailed down you are more able consider the more esoteric side of the art.

    It's one thing to forgive technical deficiencies in a reportage type photo but it seems to me that, in the case of a model in a posed situation, there is small excuse for obvious blunders in the technical department.

    Returning to "the photo itself is absolutely stunning. Beautifully constructed and composed.", sorry but I don't see it.

    Apart from the blown highlights on the back of the arm, these are repeated on the girls chin, cheek, nose and lip which a small rotation of the subject would have eliminated.

    Did the Photog use fill flash? If so, he got it completely wrong.

    The girl's shoulder is in an ugly position and appears divorced from her body; easily corrected had she been asked to push it back.

    I presume the diagonal sweep of the garment straps are intended to lead the eye from breast to face, which it does and works well except that it is interrupted by the opposing diagonal of the arm which only serves to accentuate the ugly shoulder position.

    The Photog now compounds the problem the by chopping the top off the girl's hair; this serves no useful purpose that I can see. Cropping is a legitimate aid to composition but chopping bits off needs to be done with care. Given the other obvious blunders, I think he probably chopped the top off by accident; in which case I would have done this.

    Name:  rooz.jpg
Views: 79
Size:  183.6 KB

    This doesn't rescue the image from it's other more obvious shortcomings and of course, at the end of the day, it's all only IMO.

  8. #528
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    I agree with peekayoh in basically saying that when your taking photos as a hobby or for personal use the technical aspects don't have to matter as much, but where Don is in classes for this he has to get EVERY aspect correct for his grade to be sufficient to pass.

  9. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peekayoh View Post
    there is small excuse for obvious blunders in the technical department.
    i agree that the blunder is a big one in this case.

    Returning to "the photo itself is absolutely stunning. Beautifully constructed and composed.", sorry but I don't see it.
    thats the wonder of photography peter. it doesn't matter if YOU dont see it. i do.

    The girl's shoulder is in an ugly position and appears divorced from her body; easily corrected had she been asked to push it back. I presume the diagonal sweep of the garment straps are intended to lead the eye from breast to face, which it does and works well except that it is interrupted by the opposing diagonal of the arm which only serves to accentuate the ugly shoulder position. The Photog now compounds the problem the by chopping the top off the girl's hair; this serves no useful purpose that I can see. Cropping is a legitimate aid to composition but chopping bits off needs to be done with care. Given the other obvious blunders, I think he probably chopped the top off by accident;
    dont agree with any of that. i have no problem with the top of the head cut off at all. this isnt math peter. this conversation reminds me alot of this...
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrerabelo/70458366


    in which case I would have done this.

    Name:  rooz.jpg
Views: 79
Size:  183.6 KB

    This doesn't rescue the image from it's other more obvious shortcomings and of course, at the end of the day, it's all only IMO.
    horrible, horrible crop. you just destroyed the image utterly removing the freedom, space and whimsical nature by cropping out that negative space. in fact probably a good point for my case, the image with its obvious technical blunder is far more appealing in its original form rather than the terrible crop you just presented to eliminate the technical blunder.
    Last edited by Rooz; 04-29-2011 at 08:42 PM.
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  10. #530
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    The madness behind using models ...

    Look, you guys are kind of missing why this image was introduced in the first place. This young lady just happens to be geographically quite close to Frank's house ... and she seems to need some work on her portfolio. She is willing to work for images (not money) for her portfolio ... and Frank needs a cooperative human to photograph and develop his fledgling model photography. Perhaps his "creative eye" and understanding of exposure can create a new, improved image for the young lady and the common purposes get served.

    Personally, that is my approach to it all. Model Mayhem is a developed source of some talent that you can use to provide models that are, somewhat, interested in the results. You also get a chance to get a feel as to how "visually" appealing they might be before contacting them and turning them in your own idea of art.

    There are other sources, but they charge substantially more just to get a listing. Again, what do you want for free?

    As a student, I am totally against having to pay for talent. Oh, there has been an occasion where I had to pay for the lady's time because she spent more than an hour under the body-painter's brush ... and I do not know many who would do that for free. I got my shots and she got happy. Life goes on. But, for regular stuff ... portfolio improvement will have to be the payment.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 04-29-2011 at 10:08 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

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