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  1. #351
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    602
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    ... @Peter: Concerning the glass location ... I did have her move the glass through the scene ... trying to "find it" in the images ... and this was the one where it stood out the best. But, the weird part, as I was dropping off to sleep, I was troubled as how to improve the existing shot and thought I might just tone down the background ... to highlight the glass. It might have been cool to hit it with some kind of spot illumination, but ... did not have any to speak of.

    EDIT: Here is the redo with Post:


    I think it works better ... thanks. The space under her bottom ... err, I mean at the bottom of the photo is for text and what not. ...
    Don,

    I think Peter was referring to the glass at the lower right of the scene. Not the one in hand. The one in the lower right is distracting. Likewise, on the newer shot you posted where she's reclining atop the bar, the half of a glass sticking into the frame by her feet on the left is distracting. If the extra glass is supposed to be part of the scene, it needs to be displayed better IMHO so that it feels cohesive with the overall image.
    Darin Wessel
    α 900
    Zooms: Tamron SP AF70-200mm f2.8 Di LD Macro; Sigma 28-90mm D macro, Konica-Minolta 18-70 f3.5-5.6
    Primes: Minolta 28mm f2.8; Sony 50mm f1.4
    Minolta RC-1000 remote commander

    Film:
    Calumet Cambo CC400 4x5 View Camera
    YashikaMat 6x6 TLR (other accessories)
    Minolta Maxxum 7000 w/ Minolta 35-80mm f/4-5.6 & Minolta 2800 flash
    Minolta Maxxum 5000i & Vivitar 728 AFM flash
    What's next???

  2. #352
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Monmouthshire, UK
    Posts
    2,152
    I was. I don't think Don was listening.

  3. #353
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560

    Unhappy I think ...

    I think ol' Don is a pretty busy guy, these days.

    Look, I am posting this stuff as I go ... and I didn't think about that glass as a problem. You should see my workroom. You wouldn't be able to find that glass!

    I will get to it, later.

    :In the "to make matters worse" department: One of my lamps in the hot lights broke (internal separation) and requires replacement. You would think a 1000w lamp would be a common item, at one of the local Calumet Photographic stores (Oakbrook & Chicago), where I bought the head would have, right?

    NOT ANYMORE!

    After searching their system, only three stores (nationwide) have the item in stock ... and the national supply has "0"! What happened to having spares available. I'm not looking for the entire light head, just the lamp ... and I have to pay $10 in shipping to get it!

    Happily, I did find it on ebay ... for a 1/3 the cost, so I am buying three bulbs to have two spares. This whole episode seems so wrong. LOL
    Last edited by DonSchap; 11-20-2010 at 04:51 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  4. #354
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
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    10,424
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    I think ol' Don is a pretty busy guy, these days.

    Look, I am posting this stuff as I go ... and I didn't think about that glass as a problem. You should see my workroom. You wouldn't be able to find that glass!

    I will get to it, later.
    i think what peter is trying to say don is that while this last set is a definate improvment, you could try be more careful with your framing and the shoot in general. it looks rushed to me. kind of a grab as many frames in as many "setup poses" as i can get and hope it turns out....spray and pray photography. even your posts sound frantic.

    if i may make a suggestion. pick one location, one set, one girl, one lens. relax, take a breath. think about the shoot before you do it. think about the mood you want before you start. then shoot it patiently and with purpose. forget the gear and focus on getting your basics right. purpose, lighting and framing.
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  5. #355
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560

    Red face Chewing off more than you can bite

    "Spray and pray" seems a little harsh, 'Rooz.' You make it sound like I just waltzed into the establishment and blasted away. While that might be an easy dodge to do something that ridiculous and beg off on it, like some wedding photographers do (let the mud-slinging begin), I did spend several harsh minutes considering the lighting I wanted to try out and where it would be located.

    While there are a number of possible improvements that can be made, given time and talent, the entire shoot encompassed some diverse problems and was sought as a "learning experience" ... not a true professional modeling session. It explored the 'ragged edge' of the effort, where I am still new and raw. I made use a real situation and explored it, as time permitted, trying to imagine how to deal with it - single-handed.

    I found all sorts of things to work with ... and if I cannot show the good, the bad and the downright ugly results here, then I cannot understand what this is all about. I would like to remind you that this "ed-ja-maction" thread is dedicated to my educational pursuit ... not truly geared to my professional one. As I tried to explain ... this is a bridge ... and an experiment.

    In my experience, "Location Photography" is a give-and-take situation you are often just thrown into. While wedding photography is probably the closest thing to it, although that is typically predictable, this was truly ad hoc with experimental light set-ups and the surprise of whether the whole entourage was going to show up.

    My "Martini-Girl" concept was a totally new aspect in the work, but it totally strayed off the intended path and the shots I got were nothing like the original concept at all. It is kind of like shooting a brand new car in a show room of motorcycles, when you originally wanted it in a showroom of similar cars. You adapt and try to turn out something usable. Using 'unpaid' talent is a crap-shoot, as you imply. Personally, I feel fortunate it came off as well as it did and my limited planning experience paid off. Yes, it was rushed and I thought I had made that clear. Perhaps not. I do need more time to investigate and correct the lighting, especially in the restaurant. I want to learn the intricacies of group lighting and I am finding ... it is a whole lot rougher than I thought. Yes, I am bringing additional $trobe$ to compensate.

    To be honest, I had hoped for a little more (unpaid) assistance from the school, with additional students on hand, to assist ... but, the school canceled its interest in the shoot (for reasons I will not detail), which kind of left the whole thing flapping in the breeze. It is all ME (me, myself & I <- the three Amigos) ... and while that is fine when you are in the comfort of your own studio, when you get out into the Real World ... you suffer from "real-world" problems (power locations, alternate sources of light, setting difficulties, missing pieces, not enough light ... a whole world of issues). So, anything that was gleaned from the shoot was of my own doing ... my solutions, my lack of noting detail and, yes, mistakes were made. When a shoot of this kind is 95% prep ... and 5% actual shutter tripping ... if you do not give the Devil his due ... you get bit.

    Let's face it, when you are up to your rear-end in alligators, it is sometimes difficult to remember you came there to drain the swamp.

    Shooting non-living things is one thing, but when you are working with "talent" ... chances are, they are not all that patient and have their own agendas. You just hope it is in line with your own, at the time. But, there is a limit to their patience, as we all know. I was not going for a "prize-winning" shot in all this ... something like that requires cultivation. I don't have the luxury of the time it would take to fully cultivate this shot, but simply touch on and explore what it takes to make the shot even tolerable.

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    Okay ...

    I appreciate your comment and hope I improve on my quickly noting detail as this continues. That's what this is suppose to be about ... and thank you for adding to the pile of considerations. If you talented-shooters never said a word, I would not learn much of anything. You might even say, "Education is by mistake."
    Last edited by DonSchap; 11-21-2010 at 08:46 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  6. #356
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
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    10,424
    now thats a great shot. dont overcomplicate things thinking this is harder than what it is. the reason that shot works so wonderfully is that its well lit, well framed, has nice eye contact and no distractions. its the absolute simple basics of portrait photography.

    this should be your standard. i hope you can look at that one and realise how below par the others were. really good job Don, id say thats the most impressive shot you;ve posted on this forum probably ever.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  7. #357
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560

    Thumbs up Building up ... the knowledge base

    Well, since most of my work is strewn from one end of this place to the other ... something had to give!

    Thank you, 'Rooz' ... I will accept your evaluation, because if there is one person who knows what I have been through, doing this, it would be you.

    There is still a future ... out there. It begins, now.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  8. #358
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    602

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    ... You might even say, "Education is by mistake."
    You learn more from mistakes than from successes.

    Don, you are right that on location shoots present all sorts of unanticipated complications, even when the location has been previously scouted. But in my mind, the photographer is the director and needs to keep a cool head (even though it might be spinning inside) and roll with what your location gives you. At the same time, the photographer needs to pay extra attention to the basics and not forget background, background, background. Some background issues can't be changed and have to be addressed in post. But if it's in the photographer's control, best to take care of it then and there. It's tough though.

    Enough said. And Don, I completely agree with Rooz that that last photo post is great. Now that's what we like to see. A professional being born.
    Darin Wessel
    α 900
    Zooms: Tamron SP AF70-200mm f2.8 Di LD Macro; Sigma 28-90mm D macro, Konica-Minolta 18-70 f3.5-5.6
    Primes: Minolta 28mm f2.8; Sony 50mm f1.4
    Minolta RC-1000 remote commander

    Film:
    Calumet Cambo CC400 4x5 View Camera
    YashikaMat 6x6 TLR (other accessories)
    Minolta Maxxum 7000 w/ Minolta 35-80mm f/4-5.6 & Minolta 2800 flash
    Minolta Maxxum 5000i & Vivitar 728 AFM flash
    What's next???

  9. #359
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560

    Thumbs down Last minute bail-outs ...

    Well ... it maybe "still born" career birth, as I just had a major collapse of my second shoot, with two models & the make-up artist taking a powder from it. Sure, they have their particular reasons ... but, that really empties out about 75% of the participation.

    Man oh man ... not the best day I have enjoyed, this week.

    Of course, I can not get in touch with the other 25% of the participants ... except through Facebook or some other email method. I suspect they will arrive at the shoot ... wasting their time ... or wait ... what if I just shoot the darn thing anyway? They need the shots ... they just need to provide their own make-up. Hmmm ... the shoot just gets done sooner than expected. That's not bad, I suppose.

    Flexibility ... key to a solid plan.

    Not quite the way I envisioned it, but then again ... I didn't have that much invested in it. People know what they need ... they need not to be there, or they would.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  10. #360
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    602

    Angry Pain of location shoots

    Don,

    I can feel your pain. Location shoots start out difficult enough. When your support and key personnel (models/makeup) flake, well At least when you get to the realm where it's everyone's career and they are getting paid pretty good money, they're going to do everything they can to make there and make it happen.

    Good to see you're rolling with it though. Who knows, maybe the back-up crew will come through and perform even better.

    Best of luck.
    Darin Wessel
    α 900
    Zooms: Tamron SP AF70-200mm f2.8 Di LD Macro; Sigma 28-90mm D macro, Konica-Minolta 18-70 f3.5-5.6
    Primes: Minolta 28mm f2.8; Sony 50mm f1.4
    Minolta RC-1000 remote commander

    Film:
    Calumet Cambo CC400 4x5 View Camera
    YashikaMat 6x6 TLR (other accessories)
    Minolta Maxxum 7000 w/ Minolta 35-80mm f/4-5.6 & Minolta 2800 flash
    Minolta Maxxum 5000i & Vivitar 728 AFM flash
    What's next???

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