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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisha82 View Post
    Jebus guys...drop it already.
    Opinions need not become fact and need to be pushed either.
    Lay it out there and be done with it.

    These forums are getting way too hostile!
    Next thing you know, Palin will be President.....GOD forbid!
    If you'll notice, rarely does anyone have much of an argument with anyone here, with one exception. Also if you've noticed I called the exception out and asked him to call me a liar...he couldn't and didn't.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  2. #42
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    Jul 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    I call it my "preference" and hardly arrogant. I have used medium format for several months and found it expensive, inflexible and hardly worth all the effort. Obviously, others have their preferences, so I respectfully suggest that we just leave it at that. The industries involved are almost mutually exclusive, so I am not too sure where you feel we need to go with this.
    Oh, BS. Seriously. You call it your "preference" but you've stated unequivocally that the APS-C sensor is headed for extinction, and that all camera companies should make all their lenses FF/35MM compatible.

    That's not preference Don, that's hubris.
    E-510
    E-1
    Zuiko 14-54 F2.8-3.5 MkI
    Zuiko 70-300 F4.0-5.6
    Konica Hexanon 52mm F1.8
    Cullmann 2503
    Benro KS-0

  3. #43
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    Feb 2006
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    Des Plaines, IL
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    Lightbulb Planning for the future ...

    Aw heck, call it what you want. Personally, I see it as getting back to a "norm."

    In the past few years, we have seen amazing improvements in digital photography for everyone. We have also seen some pandering, too.

    Personally, I elect to see restoration to some established standards. Too many times have people been caught with an "occasional standard" ... and I sight recorded media as being one of these. I mean, try and find a "floppy disk". Huh, what's that? Hey, you got a "ZIP disk"? Hoohah ... exactly my point. Stuff comes and goes ... sometimes faster and more unexpectedly than you can imagine.

    Remember Kodak film and shares in the company? I bet there are more than a few who would like to have forgotten where they went.

    APS-C lenses? Here today ... where TOMORROW?

    I guess you can decide where the investment wisdom lies ...
    Last edited by DonSchap; 10-24-2009 at 05:23 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  4. #44
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    Dec 2006
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    God's Country - Australia
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    dons just stirring. no need for people to get hot under the collar.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooz View Post
    dons just stirring. no need for people to get hot under the collar.
    I'm not mad in the least, I am just being honest and trying to get the truth out. I will not let Don get away with hypocrisy and hubris.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  6. #46
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    Des Plaines, IL
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    Question Alternative sources ... uh, no

    Well, let's look at it this way ... IF all APS-C glass does evaporate ... who suffers? Well, consider that Tokina is really going to take a bath, as 80% of their current offerings will be directly impacted.

    I mean, not that SONY DSLR owners would give two hoots, as Tokina has (in their infinite wisdom) seen fit NOT support the SONY-Mount for the past three years. Obviously they didn't think the SONY-Mount was worth their investment.

    Will we miss them? Uh ... no. You can check them off the list of "we care."

    So who really takes a hit if SONY APS-C goes bye-bye? That's right ... SIGMA! Huh? SIGMA? Yep ... 18 lenses for SONY APS-C in their offerings. Can you imagine ... the revenue loss of all that mostly f/3.5-5.6 glass?
    Last edited by DonSchap; 10-24-2009 at 06:06 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  7. #47
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    Nov 2004
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    Wild, Wonderful, Wyoming
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Aw heck, call it what you want. Personally, I see it as getting back to a "norm."
    So are you ready to return to DOS for your OS? Or maybe punch cards. Or a view camera with a blackout cover and silver plate? Those are the norms! Aren't they? Maybe you should go back to film, now there's a norm. Heck why use your OIS? The norm is a tripod, isn't it? Horse and buggy, but wait that's not normal either, or is it? Amish certainly think so, I think. Where do we, me, you, draw the line?

    My point is where does the norm start and stop? Do we all have to become Luddites? An APS-c arguably out resolves 35mm film, so what more do we need? Who really cares what a 28mm focal length is? It's a wide angle isn't it, no it's normal, OK so a 17mm is wide then. Who cares? Use the focal length to get what you want to in the frame. It really doesn't matter what the focal length is, not even a little bit.

    It's all in YOUR mind.

    And before you say I haven't a clue what I'm talking about, a little history, I picked up a 35mm SLR for the first time in 1980, I am more than familiar with the "norm", and the switch to APS-c or the switch between my APS-c and my FF isn't a problem at all.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  8. #48
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    Uh no, what they'll lose is the R&D to come up with these lenses you were just touting until recently. All of the lens companies have had a huge boon over telling everyone they had to buy "D" lenses. You went right along with them and touted "D" lenses. All of the lens manufacturers have benefited greatly from digital photography and have made huge profits.

    My photos have excellent contrast, sharpness, and color taken on digital APS-c and FF bodies. Like I have said before and you choose to ignore again and again, not a one of my photographs have been taken with a "D" lens, except for a small number when I had a Tokina 12-24 f/4(Excellent lens except for the CA).

    The knock on f/3.5 to 5.6 again from the man who's collection(those still posted in his gear list, the number is actually well over 50% if you count everything) is comprised of 44% of lenses starting at apertures of f/3.5 or higher.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560

    Question Why keep throwing money away?

    The enormous cost of long lenses that exceed f/4 is utterly obnoxious and you are well aware of that. In fact, the raw size of a 400mm f/2.8 or even a 600mm f/2.8 is hard to appreciate until you try to stuff it in your lens bag. So, you are masking a lot of truth in your statement, but be that as it may ... the need to reinvent every lens for an APS-C body still seems rather pointless and kind of wasteful, in my opinion.

    One need only look to TAMRON's recent release of the SP AF 60mm f/2 Di-II LD 1:1 MACRO (<- click here for details) to see the rather pointless need of produce a Di-II version of the SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di 1:1 MACRO (<- click here for details).

    Precisely the same image ... for almost double the cost! Ring one up, at B&H Video 60 90, and see for yourself, big spender. Now, there's a pocketable savings, Jim! From yours to theirs, all by the benefit of your argument: "Oh, please save the APS-C sensor."

    Sorry, that one I am not buying into.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 10-24-2009 at 06:36 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
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    they are 2 totally different lens' first of all the 60 is a stop faster. so lets leave the false statements out of the debate please.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

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