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  1. #31
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    Choose ... wisely

    Quote Originally Posted by TenD View Post
    On top of all this, my next body will be a crop body. Canon 7D.
    Considering the baseline cost factor involved to go to the EOS 1D MkIV .... I can easily (and I mean with no problem at all) understand your reluctance to migrate to the APC-H sensor, Jim.

    Guess FF migration for some is not the same as for others. Casualties of choice, I suppose.

    I tell you, if it were not for the Canon DSLR forum members chatting things up, like the continuation of "SONY DT lenses" discussion .... it would be downright boring in here. Thanks for your continued support and effort to dispel conjecture and postulation.

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    Last edited by DonSchap; 10-23-2009 at 09:23 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  2. #32
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    I have to admit it Don, it's downright boring in the Canon forum without you. There are no wild-ass theories, no hypocrisy, opines changing with the wind(or body), and in general, topics stay on subject without 90 changes in direction, or selective ignoring of portions of the debate.

    People are accepting of newbies whether they chose a body with the kung fu grip(your words not mine), or what you would call a worthy body(since you chose the "right" one), although now, I am guessing that it's not right anymore: FF is everything. There is hardly a mention of a Tamron lens, and no photos of super hero figurines or sword hilts. All in all it's pretty boring there.

    It's getting thin here, two defectors recently. I haven't followed the reasoning for defecting too close, but I am guessing in body IS wasn't enough to keep them here. You are correct if it wasn't for the Nikonians and Cannonites this forum would be pretty much dead. You, whether you like it or not, invited our participation here: We had to keep and eye on you and your wild ass opines. Your opinion is generally stated as fact with no room for debate. The debate is generally off on 90 degree tangents without addressing the subject.

    So Don, in general you make this forum fun, because there is always a statement to debate on, and whether it's on purpose, or you are just plain strangely perplexing, you do make it interesting.
    Last edited by TenD; 10-24-2009 at 06:02 AM.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  3. #33
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    Red face Gorsh!

    I'm feeling a little goofy and shy, Jim. I guess there's one in every crowd ...

    It all boils down to a personal assault on my good nature and ... pontification. Great, just great.

    Why don't you and your new 7D ... go get real intimate You can "shutter" at that thought.

    I am pretty sure we do not need this kind of contribution in the forum. You can mosey-on and stun the "educated" masses in the Canon forum, with your observations and criticisms, okay? Cya. Name:  wave goodbye.gif
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    Okay BAT-fans, does this spell the end of "DT" lens for SONY DSLR cameras? Nah, it was just a question looking for supposition and conjecture. Only time will tell if the photographic community will make the obvious migration back to the 35mm frame. As a look at a potential future outcome, nothing is in stone, that is for sure. Heck, we are still scratching to get seriously good ISO response. I am relatively sure that will come, as it is a hot-button issue with most advanced SONY photographers.

    Video? Not so much, although there are many who love "the toys." Experience has shown me that having to worry about BOTH aspects of photography is counter-productive. Still photography is an art unto itself. I suggest leaving it at that, just for sanity's sake. I find myself STILL learning more about 'still photography', as I do it.

    More often than not, my experience is that there isn't enough time in the normal day (as opposed to an abnormal day ) to add in the complexities of motion-based images, too. It seems more like juggling with hand axes while on a unicycle. Isn't life difficult enough?

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    Last edited by DonSchap; 10-24-2009 at 11:42 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  4. #34
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    You, shy? Hmmmm, that's a good one. You name one thing that I said that isn't true Don, and I will never set keyboard in this forum again.

    Oh and BTW I have had a FF body for about 2 years. You probably didn't know or if you did, you barely heard about it. I make no reference to its superiority or the inferiority of my 30D. It's just another tool. It comes out for deliberate shooting, low light (high ISO) shooting. The crop body comes out for faster, good light, usually longer focal length shooting.

    The crop factor has always been in photography, a 50mm on a medium format has always been a wide angle lens, on a view camera UWA, 35mm normal, APS camera short telephoto, etc etc.

    It's arrogant to suggest that just because you started with a 35mm camera body that that is what all focal lengths should be measured by.
    Last edited by TenD; 10-24-2009 at 02:00 PM.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  5. #35
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    Lightbulb Keep it simple ...

    Quote Originally Posted by TenD View Post
    It's arrogant to suggest that just because you started with a 35mm camera body that that is what all focal lengths should be measured by.
    I call it my "preference" and hardly arrogant. I have used medium format for several months and found it expensive, inflexible and hardly worth all the effort. Obviously, others have their preferences, so I respectfully suggest that we just leave it at that. The industries involved are almost mutually exclusive, so I am not too sure where you feel we need to go with this.

    Basically, this thread boils down to a simple contention that APS-C sensors are an aberration, borne of a immediate need to keep things "affordable." It would seem that SONY has found a way back to the "official-size", the day of continuing APS-C has come and gone ... and resumption of the full frame size lens design should be the industry standard, not some "reduced-image circle, cheapo design" you seem to want to continue.

    That's about it. Simple and to the point. No political agenda, but simplicity.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Basically, this thread boils down to a simple contention that APS-C sensors are an aberration, borne of a immediate need to keep things "affordable." It would seem that SONY has found a way back to the "official-size", the day of continuing APS-C has come and gone ... and resumption of the full frame size lens design should be the industry standard, not some "reduced-image circle, cheapo design" you seem to want to continue.

    That's about it. Simple and to the point. No political agenda, but simplicity.
    it baffles the mind just HOW much of a hypocrite you can be. lol
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  7. #37
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    Maybe you have forgotten, I have never been a fan of the APS-c lens designs. When Canon cut the 10D out of the EF-s I pretty much decided to never buy an EF-s lens. I could care less about the lenses, but the sensor has advantages. In fact if you look back, unlike you, I have always shunned DT/DX/EF-s/etc. and advocated the purchase of any high quality glass, especially FF glass.

    How is it that Sony is the purveyor of the FF camera body? Canon has had a FF for the masses out since 2005, and Nikon since 2008, but now that Sony has produced one under $2K 4 years later, suddenly they are the manufacturer that brought FF to the masses?

    I think you are probably right, the APS-c sensor was born of a need to keep costs down, but now it's a sensor that is totally viable and does very well on its own. An APS-c body coupled with a FF body is a formidable combination. And covers a variety of focal lengths with the FF allowing for UWA and the crop helping with length.
    Last edited by TenD; 10-24-2009 at 04:49 PM.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  8. #38
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    Wink Keeping your glass-eye on the ball ...

    If you were a manufacturer ... and had to reduce overall production costs ... you knew that FF was a very favorably accepted return to commonly held standards ... could simplify your manufacturing arm by reducing the need for three versions of the same lens ... with just one.

    I think you know where I am going with this ... and with copious amounts of hypocrisy aside, what would YOU do, Mr. Company President?
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  9. #39
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    Guelph, Ontario
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    Jebus guys...drop it already.
    Opinions need not become fact and need to be pushed either.
    Lay it out there and be done with it.

    These forums are getting way too hostile!
    Next thing you know, Palin will be President.....GOD forbid!
    Canon EOS 7D

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    FLUIDR

  10. #40
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    New Hampshire, USA
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    Nevermind...I'll keep out of this.
    Last edited by fdexclpl; 10-24-2009 at 06:07 PM. Reason: Sanity
    -Paul-
    Canon 7D - Canon 17-55 IS USM - Canon 70-200mm f/4 IS - Canon 50mm f/1.8 - Sigma 30mm f/1.4 - Sigma 10-20 f4-5.6 - Canon 430EX II Speedlite


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