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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,559
    BOTH locations would be the BETTER idea, I opine. You guys really need to think this through. After all this time ... you still do not get it, Jim. Better glass does not correct for the shake ... mount a <200mm PRIME lens and find out.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 09-11-2009 at 07:51 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,559

    Lightbulb Quick compare ... my bag, their inventory

    SONY lens . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .SONY cost . . . My current lens

    CZ 16-35mm f/2.8 (alternative to Konica-Minolta AF 17~35mm f/2.8-4 (D)) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $1,900.00 . . . $349.00
    CZ 24-70mm f/2.8 (alternative to Tamron SP AF 28~75mm f/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF)) . . . . .$1,600.00 . . . $349.00
    70-200mm f/2.8 (alternative to Tamron SP AF 70~200mm f/2.8 Di LD (IF) MACRO) . . . . . . . . . .$1,800.00 . . . $699.00
    70-400mm f/4-5.6 (alternative to Tokina AF 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6 AT-X 840) . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,600.00 . . . $329.00
    CZ 135mm f/1.8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,480.00 . . $1,399.00
    100mm f/2.8 Macro (alternative to Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di MACRO 1:1) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$680.00 . . . $499.00
    50mm f/1.4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $370.00 . . . .$359.00
    16mm f/2.8 Fisheye (alternative to BOWER (Samyang) MF 8mm f/3.5 "Fisheye") . . . . . . . . . . . . .$850.00 . . . $349.00
    28mm f/2.8 (alternative to Minolta AF 28mm f/2.8) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$270.00 . . . $229.00
    20mm f/2.8 (alternative to SIGMA AF 20mm f/1.8 (D) EX Aspherical DG DF RF) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $600.00 . . . $549.00




    Okay, so totaling this mess ... SONY = $11,150.00 & My lens = $5,110.00

    Yeah, I see your point ... add another $5,000.00 in overall cost to my lenses and I can have a fully registered AF MICRO-ADJUST in my brand new α850

    Oh yeah, and the other $5,000.00 I have in unmatchable lenses I'd just have to pitch! Now, that's some sound thinkin'!


    I think not ...

    I can take one heck of a "photographic holiday" for $10,000, using my old, "beat up" glass selection. Peter ... and probably make it look pretty darn good, too!
    Last edited by DonSchap; 09-11-2009 at 08:57 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Wild, Wonderful, Wyoming
    Posts
    1,043
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    BOTH locations would be the BETTER idea, I opine. You guys really need to think this through. After all this time ... you still do not get it, Jim. Better glass does not correct for the shake ... mount a <200mm PRIME lens and find out.
    Yes, but better glass combined with your SSS should produce stellar results. IS is useful in a few constrained situations. Relying on IS is a poor excuse for not using proper technique. Relying on IS does nothing for a subject that's moving.


    I don't have a 200mm prime but I do have the drainpipe, how fast would you like me to shoot it? It should correlate with the speed you can shoot your 200mm prime. I'll take my 80-200@200mm without IS any day of the week and twice on Sundays over your Tammy@200mm with SSS.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,559

    Exclamation R-E-A-C-H . . O-U-T . . & get the SHOT!

    Okay, Jim ... with one caveat ... I want you to run to the top of the bleachers, turn around and commence fire on the football field, with your mighty (short) 80-200mm. Match the glass to the scenario. The 200-500mm Super Telephoto has a real mission. You will know it when you CANNOT see it!
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Wild, Wonderful, Wyoming
    Posts
    1,043
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Okay, Jim ... with one caveat ... I want you to run to the top of the bleachers, turn around and commence fire on the football field, with your mighty (short) 80-200mm. Match the glass to the scenario. The 200-500mm Super Telephoto has a real mission. You will know it when you CANNOT see it!
    I would then grab my 100-400...I thought we were talking about a 200mm prime...Oops, sorry I did bring up the Tammy. If I were lower and closer to the action on the bleachers, why would I run to the top??
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,204
    Quote Originally Posted by TenD View Post
    I think the "what?" has to do with the usual right turn you took in this thread. Peek was explaining the benefit of upgrading your glass, and you go into how Sony's micro adjust isn't very compatible with 3rd party glass. Basically Peek's suggestion would benefit you in two ways:
    1. Much better glass
    2. Your micro adjust wouldn't get all messed up with third party lenses.

    Then, you edit your original post to take a shot at the better Stabilization systems on the market, IN LENS. Superiority proven by DP review on more than one occasion. What would you rather have? One size fits all, or a custom system designed for the tool you are using at the time? Cost savings? not really Sony's 1st party glass is more expensive on just about every count than Canon 1st party glass. How's that poll going for you? Not exactly the way you thought, huh?

    Sony Forum:
    This is Don's usual method, he gets backed into a corner and instead of an intelligent debate he flies off on a tangent and deflects the original conversation.
    Yes, QFT.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    SONY lens . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .SONY cost . . . My current lens

    CZ 16-35mm f/2.8 (alternative to Konica-Minolta AF 17~35mm f/2.8-4 (D)) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $1,900.00 . . . $349.00
    CZ 24-70mm f/2.8 (alternative to Tamron SP AF 28~75mm f/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF)) . . . . .$1,600.00 . . . $349.00
    70-200mm f/2.8 (alternative to Tamron SP AF 70~200mm f/2.8 Di LD (IF) MACRO) . . . . . . . . . .$1,800.00 . . . $699.00
    70-400mm f/4-5.6 (alternative to Tokina AF 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6 AT-X 840) . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,600.00 . . . $329.00
    CZ 135mm f/1.8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$1,480.00 . . $1,399.00
    100mm f/2.8 Macro (alternative to Tamron SP AF 90mm f/2.8 Di MACRO 1:1) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$680.00 . . . $499.00
    50mm f/1.4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $370.00 . . . .$359.00
    16mm f/2.8 Fisheye (alternative to BOWER (Samyang) MF 8mm f/3.5 "Fisheye") . . . . . . . . . . . . .$850.00 . . . $349.00
    28mm f/2.8 (alternative to Minolta AF 28mm f/2.8) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$270.00 . . . $229.00
    20mm f/2.8 (alternative to SIGMA AF 20mm f/1.8 (D) EX Aspherical DG DF RF) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $600.00 . . . $549.00




    Okay, so totaling this mess ... SONY = $11,150.00 & My lens = $5,110.00

    Yeah, I see your point ... add another $5,000.00 in overall cost to my lenses and I can have a fully registered AF MICRO-ADJUST in my brand new α850

    Oh yeah, and the other $5,000.00 I have in unmatchable lenses I'd just have to pitch! Now, that's some sound thinkin'!


    I think not ...

    I can take one heck of a "photographic holiday" for $10,000, using my old, "beat up" glass selection. Peter ... and probably make it look pretty darn good, too!
    True it's cheaper. But you get what you pay for. You could argue that in the same way that the full frame allowed you to do things you could never have done on the A700 (APS-C), better lenses (wider apertures) allow you to achieve shots and smaller DOF that cheaper lenses would not have allowed. Your comparisons aren't quite apples to apples. Also with a CZ 16-35mm F/2.8 ($1899), you can forget the other primes (28 and 20mm). See, you can kill 3 birds with one stone, and carry one magnificent Zeiss lens.
    flickr

    Canon 7D - 5D | 550EX - 430EX II - (2) PW FlexTT5 | 24-105 f4L | 70-200 f2.8L IS | 100 f2.8L IS | 50 f1.8 II

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,559

    Question And who would be so kind as to supplement my wallet?

    You got a buyer ... I have a cannon!

    Name:  A850+200-500mm.jpg
Views: 81
Size:  158.6 KB

    COMMENCE FIRE!
    Last edited by DonSchap; 09-11-2009 at 11:43 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,760
    i'll give ya 20 bucks cash

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,559
    I knew it ... new camera and suddenly it is "Discount Don's" ... I ain't buying it. Nice try! LOL
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Monmouthshire, UK
    Posts
    2,152
    Stop it dr4gon. Boy would I like to swap my KM 17-35mm f/2.8-4 for the CZ 16-35mm F/2.8.

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