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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Des Plaines, IL
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    Ryan, I usually shoot in AdobeRGB ... then edit in Adobe RGB ... and print in AdobeRGB. But when I normally shrink my images and export them to the Web ... I run them through the "Save for Web & Devices ..." in PS CS4. That instantly converts them to sRGB ... and the file is ready for publication. If I were to save using "Save as" or "Save" while it was still in AdobeRGB colorspace ... the image would lack saturation and look washed out in the Green-Cyan-Blue gamut.

    I don't know if you remember, but I got caught up in that with the Sparkster's daughter-in-law portrait. I had to go back and run it through that "Save for Web & Devices ..." step, because it looked rather tragic ... all washed out (still in its original AdobeRGB colorspace form) ... and someone nailed me for it. I swear, I just don't get paid enough for this abuse!
    Last edited by DonSchap; 06-12-2009 at 06:28 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    1,759
    Quote Originally Posted by dr4gon View Post
    Not if all three (monitor, scanner, printer) are calibrated the same.
    didn't mean yours..meant the film labs

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
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    10,421
    how noticeable is it really ryan ? are we talking huge colour shift or just a small tonal problem ? when you print, does it print the "right" one ?
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    2,204
    Quote Originally Posted by Rooz View Post
    how noticeable is it really ryan ? are we talking huge colour shift or just a small tonal problem ? when you print, does it print the "right" one ?
    Well everything in Photoshop and Lightroom looks like how it looks in windows photo gallery, messed up. It used to look like the icons. If I disable the profile in color management, it all comes back to how it looked before, with closer to proper colors. I just want everything to be consistent (as it was before), but correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Ryan, I usually shoot in AdobeRGB ... then edit in Adobe RGB ... and print in AdobeRGB. But when I normally shrink my images and export them to the Web ... I run them through the "Save for Web & Devices ..." in PS CS4. That instantly converts them to sRGB ... and the file is ready for publication. If I were to save using "Save as" or "Save" while it was still in AdobeRGB colorspace ... the image would lack saturation and look washed out in the Green-Cyan-Blue gamut.

    I don't know if you remember, but I got caught up in that with the Sparkster's daughter-in-law portrait. I had to go back and run it through that "Save for Web & Devices ..." step, because it looked rather tragic ... all washed out (still in its original AdobeRGB colorspace form) ... and someone nailed me for it. I swear, I just don't get paid enough for this abuse!
    Like I said, everything I export out of Lightroom is sRGB.
    flickr

    Canon 7D - 5D | 550EX - 430EX II - (2) PW FlexTT5 | 24-105 f4L | 70-200 f2.8L IS | 100 f2.8L IS | 50 f1.8 II

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    As I recall: You also need to disable a color profile that gets loaded by default when the computer boots up. Darn it all, I forgot what it is ... but, I think it is an Adobe or Microsoft default load. They may be conflicting with one another. I know there were instructions on this somewhere ... (rummage rummage) <- {the sound of rummaging fills the forum, as Don frantically ransacks his already disaster of a room}
    Last edited by DonSchap; 06-12-2009 at 08:33 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    2,204
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    As I recall: You also need to disable a color profile that gets loaded by default when the computer boots up. Darn it all, I forgot what it is ... but, I think it is an Adobe or Microsoft default load. They may be conflicting with one another. I know there were instructions on this somewhere ... (rummage rummage) <- {the sound of rummaging fills the forum, as Don frantically ransacks his already disaster of a room}
    Anything would help, thanks!
    flickr

    Canon 7D - 5D | 550EX - 430EX II - (2) PW FlexTT5 | 24-105 f4L | 70-200 f2.8L IS | 100 f2.8L IS | 50 f1.8 II

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Des Plaines, IL
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    I cannot find the folder ... I have the darn book ... but it doesn't mention the conflicting file that has to be redirected. I will keep looking ... but, go on ahead without me. It's okay, I brought a sack lunch!

    Geez, all I can find are pieces of those courses ... you could call adobe and ask them what the file is that has to be removed. Even GretaMacBeth may know. Also, consider trying those guys on Dyxum. Someone may have a clue.

    ALSO: Check out this Amazon link ... which it the text we used for the CM course.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 06-12-2009 at 09:12 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
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    Thumbs up The rummaging sounds stop ... typing begins!

    Okay, okay ... you must be living under a lucky star, Ryan ... you have no idea

    Here we go ...

    "When you use an X-Rite (or Monaco or Gretag) application for creating display profiles, you should remove the Adobe Gamma Loader shortcut from the Startup program group on your system.

    Proceed as follows:

    Click on "Start"

    Hover over "Programs" and then over "Startup"

    Right-click on the Adobe Gamma Loader and choose "Delete" from the dialog box.

    This does not remove the Adobe Gammma Loader program or the Adobe Gamma Control Panel and is quite safe. When you create a display profile with your Monaco software, a shortcut to MonacoGamma.exe will be placed in the "Startup" program group so your profile will load properly."


    and there it is. I hope it helps you out, buddy!
    Last edited by DonSchap; 06-12-2009 at 10:06 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,554

    Lightbulb Some basic blather about Color Models and Color Spaces

    Color Models
    • are used to numerically describe the colors we see and work with
    • each use a different method for describing color
    • RGB, CMYK, HSB, and Lab are examples of "color models"


    Color Spaces
    • are variants of color models
    • contain specific gamuts of colors
    • AdobeRGB (1988), sRGB, ColorMatchRGB, are different working spaces within the RGB Color Model that Photoshop uses to give a consistent colorspace within which to edit images
    • so are the profiles of monitors, scanners and printers - these profiles describe specific color spaces
    • Each color space within the RGB color model use RGB values to describe color, but their gamuts are different


    Each monitor, scanner, printer, etc has its own RGB color space and the profiles we create describe that color space.

    Each device (monitor, scanner, printer, camera, etc) operates only within its own colorspace - or the range of colors it can reproduce.

    No device can reproduce the full visible spectrum AND no two devices have the same exact colorspace - even if they are the same make and model. Ii is much like a fingerprint - where no two exactly alike.

    A specific profile is needed to describe each device's colorspace. Devices may use different methods to produce color.
    • monitors create color with light
    • printers produce color with pigment or dye based ink
    • some colors can be viewed on a monitor, but NOT printed.
    • some colors can be printed, but NOT displayed on a monitor.
    • CRTs and LCDs use different methods to display color, so their display of color with identical RG & B values would be different
    • Even 2 monitors that are made by the same company and are the same model will often display the same RG & B values as a different color due to variation in manufacturing.


    In other words, color numbers only have meaning within a colorspace of the device producing the color ... unless you have a way of translating them from one color to another. Hey ... that's what profiles do!

    When you assign a profile to a file that was scanned or captured with a digital camera, that profile allows Photoshop (and the Color Management System-part of the operating system) to interpret the RGB color numbers so that it displays correctly on the monitor, in the working space you choose.

    Chew on that for awhile.

    BTW: Here are some urls for "Color Management"

    www.booksmartstudio.com
    www.inkjetart.com
    www.wilhelm-research.com
    www.atlex.com
    www.digitalartsupplies.com
    www.johnpaulcaponigro.com
    www.imatest.com
    Last edited by DonSchap; 06-12-2009 at 09:59 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,204
    Thanks Don. I already knew about removing Adobe gamma, but withe Adobe CS4, it doesn't even include Adobe gamma anymore. MonacoGamma is in the startup and I know it's loading the correct profile because it tells me what it's loading and color management confirms what is loaded.

    Maybe everytime I calibrate, I'm doing something wrong. I don't know, I'm gonna keep trying it again. Should I be using the EZ color program that came with it or the Eye-one Match 3 program that I downloaded from X-Rite?

    Also I seem to be having a hard time setting my white point. Not sure what temperature is appropriate.
    flickr

    Canon 7D - 5D | 550EX - 430EX II - (2) PW FlexTT5 | 24-105 f4L | 70-200 f2.8L IS | 100 f2.8L IS | 50 f1.8 II

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