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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Is there anything you are not complaining about?

    SONY is on the verge ... and that's all they have to say about that. I ma pretty certain the Japanese market drives the SONY result, because these cameras are not for the big handed folks.
    Rooz is just repeating the stuff you used to say about another brand of Camera. Now you have a series of cameras that look very similar to a series of cameras you used to make fun of. It's all starting to look very familiar, apparently that old Camera brand was on to something a few years ago, hmmmm. Now where will you turn?
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  2. #32
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    Red face When in Rome ...

    Guess I'll just get a big old "print developing tin" and make soup, eh? Everybody else seems to be.

    Obviously, SONY is reducing the size of the "stair step" between the P&S cameras and the DSLRs. Is this a bad thing? Nah, probably should have done it last year. So, they are a little late to the party, but I would surmise that it is better than not showing up at all. At least they have the moxie to correct their oversight. Canon, on the other hand, just keeps plowing down the road ... good, bad or no "anti-shake" in the body ... there it is.

    It is not like anyone did not mention this. They simply chose to ignore the requests and you now have VIDEO with your FF, instead of free-stability with EVERY lens! Well, that's handy, ain't it?

    Sorry ... ride Canon's rear, 'Rooz'. They're the ones building the cameras that still cannot handle a 1/15 sec shot without some serious concentration on TenD's part ... I just buy cameras, on occasion, and quite obviously have no input whatsoever into the decision-making that is going on ... like the rest of their customers ... or EX-customers, as the case may be.

    BTW: There's no pay check in this ... my purchases are all on me.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 05-18-2009 at 02:34 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  3. #33
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    lol watching you duck and dive is a thing of beauty Don.
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  4. #34
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    Obviously, you see my point. It has been consistent, as your pursuit has been.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  5. #35
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    the consistency is the ducking and diving which you've refined down to a fine art. i'm surprised you're not a politician. lol
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  6. #36
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    Cool Being held responsible for an unplanned event

    These camera companies are far too inconsistent to plan on much of anything, that's for sure. The secrecy is deafening. I would appreciate a better level of communication between the customer and the manufacturer, in the form of a constructive exchange. For the sake of argument, let's call it "advertising."

    Of course, everyone wants the world out of them. But, when they make it so difficult that you had absolute no idea what's next ... that truly misses the mark and they are just playing games with the public (market).

    Look at PMA ... the multitude clamored for a replacement α700 ... and was given a "see you in September." Then, the slippery release of the "intro-upgrades" in May. Does this strike you as ... odd? I mean, Nikon at least told everybody three months in advance what was coming ... and then they waited a little longer. But you knew ... and could hold off buying the soon-to-be-retired model you had been salivating over, instead of guessing when ... or IF. Sure, your photography could wait for the newest thing they released ... you waited this long, right? So what if little Suzy or lil Joey got another six-months older? Or your local earthquake came and went? Who cares? Wait for the latest and greatest. Hey, it's only YOUR LIFE passing by.

    Maybe you have a different read, being upside down and all. I think the blood is just rushing to your head. Take a peek in the mirror ... do you look flush?

    Anyway ... try this on for size, since the current Administration is hell-bent on rewriting the history books ... why not SONY?

    If I were to map the "growth" or "progression" line, from this latest release, I would surmise that the Alpha line is about to grow.

    Let’s look backwards for a moment … just for fun.

    The α100 was released as a reach to the existing and lost Minolta tribe of photographers. They already had old glass that could be used and needed a “working” digital body to let it ride around on, until the A700 was complete. As nice as the α100 was, it was woefully incomplete and we all know it. Call it a “prototype-α700” and be done with it.

    The intro-DSLRs:

    The α200 offered an entry level DSLR. Not a replacement α100 … because the α100 was NOT an intro-DSLR ... it was what brought the finalized α700. The α100 almost required that you had some decent lenses to produce good images. If you relied on the non-coveted 18-70 … LOL … uh, no, that did not happen.

    The α300 & α350 offered "LiveView" … and again, were to pick up the P&S crowd looking for some better imaging.

    Indulge me here … and abandon any idea that the α100 plays any role in this. Really, its work is through.

    Now, the intro-fleet has been somewhat refined for only the new user with the release of the α230, α330 and α380. There are new lens to accompany these transition cameras and it is wrong for the current SONY DSLR users to “look back” at them. “Give unto Caesar, that which is Caesar’s.” Let the P&S crowd move up. This is just a refinement in an intro-camera and that is all. It is what it is ... a "dumbed down", "basic-training" DSLR ... because, obviously, some people cannot handle the truth!

    Now comes an α500 release, which is a new mid-level DSLR … currently unheralded. It is the logical growth of "LiveView" and maybe something new. It is this camera where the former intro-gang can really get control over their DLSR with added features formerly known to be found in SLRs. Nowhere as simple as the intro-DSLRs … and more akin to the α100/α700 than not.

    The α700(+) is released with better NR and perhaps something more. It is a pretty complete rig.

    The α900 waits for its logical progression.

    Any takers?
    Last edited by DonSchap; 05-18-2009 at 03:57 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, USA
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    788
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    These camera companies are far too inconsistent to plan on much of anything, that's for sure. The secrecy is deafening. I would appreciate a better level of communication between the customer and the manufacturer, in the form of a constructive exchange. For the sake of argument, let's call it "advertising."

    Of course, everyone wants the world out of them. But, when they make it so difficult that you had absolute no idea what's next ... that truly misses the mark and they are just playing games with the public (market).

    Look at PMA ... the multitude clamored for a replacement α700 ... and was given a "see you in September." Then, the slippery release of the "intro-upgrades" in May. Does this strike you as ... odd? I mean, Nikon at least told everybody three months in advance what was coming ... and then they waited a little longer. But you knew ... and could hold off buying the soon-to-be-retired model you had been salivating over, instead of guessing when ... or IF. Sure, your photography could wait for the newest thing they released ... you waited this long, right? So what if little Suzy or lil Joey got another six-months older? Or your local earthquake came and went? Who cares? Wait for the latest and greatest. Hey, it's only YOUR LIFE passing by.

    Maybe you have a different read, being upside down and all. I think the blood is just rushing to your head. Take a peek in the mirror ... do you look flush?

    Anyway ... try this on for size, since the current Administration is hell-bent on rewriting the history books ... why not SONY?

    If I were to map the "growth" or "progression" line, from this latest release, I would surmise that the Alpha line is about to grow.

    Let’s look backwards for a moment … just for fun.

    The α100 was released as a reach to the existing and lost Minolta tribe of photographers. They already had old glass that could be used and needed a “working” digital body to let it ride around on, until the A700 was complete. As nice as the α100 was, it was woefully incomplete and we all know it. Call it a “prototype-α700” and be done with it.

    The intro-DSLRs:

    The α200 offered an entry level DSLR. Not a replacement α100 … because the α100 was NOT an intro-DSLR ... it was what brought the finalized α700. The α100 almost required that you had some decent lenses to produce good images. If you relied on the non-coveted 18-70 … LOL … uh, no, that did not happen.

    The α300 & α350 offered "LiveView" … and again, were to pick up the P&S crowd looking for some better imaging.

    Indulge me here … and abandon any idea that the α100 plays any role in this. Really, its work is through.

    Now, the intro-fleet has been somewhat refined for only the new user with the release of the α230, α330 and α380. There are new lens to accompany these transition cameras and it is wrong for the current SONY DSLR users to “look back” at them. “Give unto Caesar, that which is Caesar’s.” Let the P&S crowd move up. This is just a refinement in an intro-camera and that is all. It is what it is ... a "dumbed down", "basic-training" DSLR ... because, obviously, some people cannot handle the truth!

    Now comes an α500 release, which is a new mid-level DSLR … currently unheralded. It is the logical growth of "LiveView" and maybe something new. It is this camera where the former intro-gang can really get control over their DLSR with added features formerly known to be found in SLRs. Nowhere as simple as the intro-DSLRs … and more akin to the α100/α700 than not.

    The α700(+) is released with better NR and perhaps something more. It is a pretty complete rig.

    The α900 waits for its logical progression.

    Any takers?
    Maybe so. I was surprised they pushed the existing entry line up basically down, but maybe it is to make room for 3 tiers of crop cameras, like Nikon.

    I do enjoy your view of how you think a companies marketing department should work. I agree it would be nicer for the customer, however if they announce stuff way ahead of time people will hold off on purchaces, and the company will lose money on existing product in the pipeline. We might be able to justify that it would bring more customers in, but the paradigm shift in some core consumer electronics companies thinking wont happen anytime soon.

    At this point I feel disappointed, and more worried Sony is not serious about the SLR market. However if this new lineup is to make room for an a500, it could be promising. Repackaging the former entry cameras as entry-entry has been common for Canon and Nikon, like XTi > XS. Similar situation with the Nikon D40, D40x, and D60 being largely the same camera.
    Jason Hamilton
    Selective Frame

    EOS 5D - Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 35 f/2, EF 50mm f/1.8 Mk II, EF 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 (with EOS adapter), 430EX, Canon S90
    Nikon FE - Nikkor 35mm f/2 AI'd, Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 AI, Nikkor 105mm f/2.5 AI, F to EF adapter, 2xVivitar 285, other lighting stuff
    Mamiya C220 - 80mm f/2.8

    Gear List flickr

  8. #38
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    Dec 2006
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    the issue isn't the number of models imo. the issue is that they appear to have already run out of ideas and development so are rehashing previous models with no improvements.

    the "roadmap" idea has been discussed at length by thom hogan for a couple of years at least and while 99% of consumers think its a great idea, i doubt any corporation would buy into that sort of logic.
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  9. #39
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    Okay ... enough of the support, already, 'Rooz'

    I'm just sayin' ,,,
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,562
    Do any of the new models handle the noise any better? I don't like the way they look. They look like toy cameras. We will just have to wait and see what comes out next. I won't be buying any new bodies or lenses yet.

    Frank
    Sony A77
    Sony A580
    Sony A 100
    Maxxum 400si.
    Sony 18-70 Kit Lens
    Minolta AF 35-70
    Minolta AF 50 f/1.7
    Tamron 70-300 f/4-5.6 Di LD
    Tamron 60mm Macro
    Tamron 17-50 f/2.8
    Tamron 2x Converter
    Sony HVL-F42AM
    Quantaray 70-300 4.5-5.6 Macro
    Slingshot 200 Bag



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