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  1. #31
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    i saw the D5000 in person today. it's smallish but not as small as the D60 and the articulating screen is pretty good. it reverses so it protects itself when closed kinda like the S3is.
    Canon EOS 7D

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  2. #32
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    You know Rooz ... you may not have been part of the arguments about SSS, so you are ... what's the word I want here ... oh yeah, forgiven. There is no 'BS" about, but I am not about to skewer 20 people in order to win the day. That was then .. this is NOW.

    Anyway, this is a good day for the "newbie" ... I hope they all enjoy it.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 05-08-2009 at 09:06 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elisha82 View Post
    i saw the D5000 in person today. it's smallish but not as small as the D60 and the articulating screen is pretty good.
    yes, i think the screen is great too, although one would have to assume hat he top models get the full 920k screen. i found it awkward at first to get used to the bottom hinge cos i'm so used to side hinges, but it works well and the ability to flip it closed is a good idea aswell.

    the camera itself is very nice, i've been thinking of picking one up as a smaller backup body later on this year. although its butt ugly in real life. in fact...so ugly its kinda cute. lol

    don i dont recall anyone saying SSS would be unreliable and would break, that is of course a nonsense argument. the only "criticism" of SSS i've ever heard is:

    #1 it wasnt as effective as in-the-lens which is true; and
    #2 cdub and coldy saying sony would never be able to implement SSS on a FF camera which turned out to be completely wrong.

    i dont know how anyone could say any form of IS could possibly be a bad thing.
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  4. #34
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    Best I can tell from the pictures, the screen on the new Sonys is just like the one on the D5000. My 40D doesn't have any buttons on the left hand side because the screen is so big, and I don't miss it, I think the side hinge Oly does it the best design.

    Don, I completely disagree with you that adding video causes any problems directly, such as hardware breaking more often or any thought that this isn't the future. SSS involves moving pieces, and is more likely to have trouble than a video feature. I do however think it shows a shift in focus I am not personally happy with. Manufacturers are going to focus on adding video capability instead of better high ISO, dynamic range, etc. I think it means that increasingly a wedding photographer, event photographer, or photojournalist will be expected to not only know how to shoot pictures, but also video. This means just as we are really learning to use strobes, we need to suddenly start learning how to use continuous light. Not just learning how to frame, capture and edit a single moment, but a whole video. I dread the space and time needed to edit video.

    BUT, I think the course is set. I am very interested in the ability to achieve shallow depth of field in video for that "cinema" look, but not nearly as interested as I am in being able to deal with high contrast or low light situations.

    But Don, you have often said you are now only doing photography for the love of the game, not paying gigs. I don't understand why you would be so opposed to this.
    Jason Hamilton
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  5. #35
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    Question Pushing the envelope ... but, why reinvent the wheel?

    As I have stated before ... this is a deviant effort by including an entirely different approach to photography. It is not only distracting ... now, you have to chose your methodology. It used to be JUST still photography. Believe me, still photography has enough nuances to it, if you are doing it correctly, that their isn't enough time to consider video ramifications.

    Personally ... if I were into cinematography ... I would have bought a video camera, separately, and used it. You won't find one in my inventory. Loading down people who only have a half-assed appreciation of still photgraphy ... and then throw this at them ... seems truly counterproductive.

    I mean I have considered it ... but after seriously weighing the amount work and redo shots involved ... I just cannot get in to it. Then, having it become a point of focus of my DSLR ... forget about it. If you want it .. then have at it. I will not encourage its use.

    Even in a discussion I had with a young man, tonight, kids are having enough trouble concentrating and developing a good work ethic as it is. It wasn't me complaining, it was all this eighteen year old, trying to make sense of his fellow workers and friends. Throwing more distractions at them, via their DSLR, is not an answer ... and may just be creating a new excuse for sloppy and half-measured work.

    Everyone seems to want a shortcut. Honestly, for better detail, some shortcuts should be left alone. This falls into that category, in my opinion. Maintain FOCUS. Do good work. Be really good at one thing ... and don't muddy the waters. Keep it simple. I suspect you will be happier and less distracted.

    I have made it a practice to assist people in decision making concerning photography and most of the ramifications that it entails. They ask, I try to answer ... or offer a referral to someone who can. Now, you want to open a whole new can of worms with video issues that travel an entirely separate line of thinking, even though now they are in the same tool. To what end? Every video is different ... under different direction ... and to a different purpose. Does that really belong in the mix with STILL photography? I think not. I mean, why not just add a paintbrush to the end of the hot-shoe strobe and do canvas with your DSLR camera while you are at it? Painting with light, right?

    A wise man once told me, "Just because you can, does not necessarily mean you should."
    Last edited by DonSchap; 05-08-2009 at 09:58 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  6. #36
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    Can't believe I'm saying this, but here goes. (I feel like rooz)

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Loading down people who only have a half-assed appreciation of still photgraphy ... and then throw this at them ... seems truly counterproductive.
    Gotta give them some credit for attempting the next level of photography with an SLR. I really had no idea what I was getting into 1 year ago yesterday. It's for fun and I enjoy using the camera.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    I mean I have considered it ... but after seriously weighing the amount work and redo shots involved ... I just cannot get in to it. Then, having it become a point of focus of my DSLR ... forget about it. If you want it .. then have at it. I will not encourage its use.
    Fair enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Even in a discussion I had with a young man, tonight, kids are having enough trouble concentrating and developing a good work ethic as it is. It wasn't me complaining, it was all this eighteen year old, trying to make sense of his fellow workers and friends. Throwing more distractions at them, via their DSLR, is not an answer ... and may just be creating a new excuse for sloppy and half-measured work.

    Everyone seems to want a shortcut. Honestly, for better detail, some shortcuts should be left alone. This falls into that category, in my opinion. Maintain FOCUS. Do good work. Be really good at one thing ... and don't muddy the waters. Keep it simple. I suspect you will be happier and less distracted.
    huh? they're just trying to make a better product is the bottom line that will sell to the masses.

    And if 100% photo taking is your thing, the high end cameras will focus on image taking. Take the A900 or D3x for example. Nikon could have incorporated video, but didn't, they stopped at LV.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Does that really belong in the mix with STILL photography? I think not. I mean, why not just add a paintbrush to the end of the hot-shoe strobe and do canvas with your DSLR camera while you are at it? Painting with light, right?
    Well of course not, two different medias. One a still image. The other a moving set of frames, a movie. They would be separate.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    A wise man once told me, "Just because you can, does not necessarily mean you should."
    Really you could say that about anything, but for the question "why?" the answer "why not?" could just as easily follow.


    Anyways, for now, you won't have to worry. There's no video in the foreseeable future. When the Sony rep said there would be no video in the coming cameras, they were telling the truth.
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  7. #37
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    Lightbulb Go to the Oracle of SONY ...

    You know Ryan ... this is my opinion ... and I am not changing it with this kind of analysis. While I appreciate your need to challenge a line of thought ... dissecting my argument is not doing anything of significant value.

    I do suggest that you would be much better served by analyzing the "WHY" that SONY could offer that they did not add video. Obviously, I am not complaining about it ... nor am I lauding their efforts. They must have their reasons ... so go ahead and get on your inquisitive pulpit and ask them WHY, not I. I have no answer. No "INFO" button, yet.

    Remember, it is easier to argue with someone who has an opinion than it is to try it with someone without one. I offer my own insights as a footnote to what is happening. I can see gains of true improvements and then see the silliness of gimmickry. Again, SONY's digital STILLs need noise-handling and high-ISO improvements. Of that, there is no doubt. Anything else seems to be an unqualified distraction.

    First things first. How about we keep the airplane flying before we worry about in-flight entertainment?
    Last edited by DonSchap; 05-08-2009 at 10:26 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  8. #38
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    The reason why is because of the way Sony implemented LV, they just need more time to sort it out.

    As for noise, I 100% agree, I've been saying it a long time, Sony is quite behind in that respect. But there are other things they can do to catch up and be like.no.other (like stabilization, what if they improved it further?). Not really picking what you said apart so much as I'm thinking out loud.
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    Canon 7D - 5D | 550EX - 430EX II - (2) PW FlexTT5 | 24-105 f4L | 70-200 f2.8L IS | 100 f2.8L IS | 50 f1.8 II

  9. #39
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    Question What's your reason for taking the image?

    To say it simply ... JUST REMEMBER THE TASK AT HAND ... GETTING THE SHOT!

    Video ... just an annoying distraction to that end. Plain ... and keep it simple.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 05-08-2009 at 10:37 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  10. #40
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    dont give me this asinine noble crap about caring about "beginners". what gives you the right to determine what a beginner and/ or consumer can and cant use ? give people the options. like i have said countless tims if YOU dont want to use it then DON'T use it but dont seek to decide for millions of other people what they should or should not be using.

    why didnt sony implement it ? i dont know, nor do i care....perhaps its cos they cant put it into their camera ? or perhaps they are just downight stupid. its completely irrelevant to the discussion why they didnt put it in.

    to say you can just use your regular video camera to accomplish the same things as video can do on dslr just shows how nieve you are. they are 2 compeltely different applications and produce 2 very different results. in some cases, (probably 75%), a video camera is better, in other situations a video camera cant hang with dslr. period.

    dslr is no different to any other consumer segment where technology adds more into their products to expand their flexibility. its just some people are so prescious about this photography thing they consider themselves above it all. what a load of pompous nonsense.
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