Medeival Times photos

[iamgeniusrnti]

Hi,

New to photography and recently bought an A300. I have a Sony 70 - 300mm lens on its way and intend to take it to Medeival Times on Sunday for my wife's Mother's Day.

It is a colloseum setting and although it is lit, the lights are high up. I don't expect to be using the flash but will be taking a lot of action shots.

I figure I will be using a high ISO but unsure of the Apeture and speed settings.

Anyone who has taken shots in these castles want to suggest some settings?

I will be sitting in the 2nd or third row.

Thank you in advance!

[DonSchap]

Not to be flippant, but I suggest really borrowing a SONY CZ 135mm f/1.8 lens and keep your fingers crossed.

No flash indoors for the 70-300 is kind of the kiss of death for that lens. If you cannot achieve autofocus ... don't waste your time. "Action shots"
will be smears trying to get it with shutter speed changes.

Even f/2.8 lenses are severely challenged w/o movement. Don't wait until you get to the event (always a bad idea) ... just try shooting around the brightest lit
room in your house ... and you will begin to get the idea. Go ahead and crank your ISO to 1600 ... even 3200, if you can. The images will be speckled (digital
noise), but you may at least get "something" recognizable. Have a child walk through the shot, to simulate "action." It should be quite revealing at anything
slower than 1/60 second.

I am not trying to be brutal, but the 70-300 was designed as an outdoor lens. They were NOT kidding! The 70-200mm f/2.8 is the best long zoom for
indoor work, but often requires some assistance with lighting, such as a very sunny day and large, uncurtained windows, to turn out decent "no flash" images.
The CZ 135mm f/1.8 is going to be the longest prime lens you can get a hold of for the SONY system. It is effectively a 200mm shot on a APS-C sensor
camera ... and that is pretty good. A new problem creeps up in the form of DOF (Depth of Field),
as gets very shallow at that aperture (mere inches), so it is critical for your subject to be correctly focused upon. The neat thing is that you can back off
to f/2 or f/2.5 and still get a "well-lit" image (relatively).

Let's face it ... there isn't much else that can do that for you. Low light scenarios are the bane of the photographer. It costs real money to resolve them without a flash.

In the end, you are the photographer and you know your audience for these shots ... it is up to you folks just how much of the lack of light you all find ... "acceptable."

Here is a "fill flash" shot from their website ... to give you an idea of the "limited lighting" you will be dealing with ... from the 3rd row. Remember, the photographer
was only about ten feet away ... not forty ... and used a pretty good flash unit.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


It won't be settings that get these shots ... it'll be a different lens.

One other thing I could suggest, just to validate this, is try to get your hands on a "light meter" and simply MEASURE the amount of light you have to work with.
Dial in the minimum f/5.6 aperture you currently have available at 300mm and then throw in your "ISO setting" and it will "spit" back the shutter speed necessary
to achieve a good exposure. If it is longer than 1/60 sec ... your subject better be parked and you should have a tripod. Personally, I would expect it recommending
no less than one-full-second, at ISO-1600/3200. Light meters are easy to get ... and you really only need to borrow it, until you need to make use of it consistently.
They cost about the same as a "good" third party lens. You might even run over to the venue before the event ... to take this reading. At least, then, you will know
what to expect.

Good luck and consider it a "learning experience." We all have them.

BTW: What settings usually give you a good, balanced exposure on a camera (using a 50mm lens)?

Answer (and this is roughly it)
Aperture: f/4 or f/5.6
Shutter Speed: 1/60
ISO: 400

If you can get your available "lighting" to support these settings, you get a great shot (unless it is moving ... then you have to play). Usually, you adjust your
settings to compliment this exposure level. It should all balance to this in the end.

[dr4gon]

You have the 70-300mm G lens? eh, not that it really matters lol. F/4.5 or 5.6 will be dreadful as Don said.

It's doable but your pictures will be so noisy. I would crank up the ISO to like 1600 or 3200 and hope there's enough light. If not don't feel bad, just enjoy the night!

[DonSchap]

Okay ... how did it go? Did you get what you anticipated? Inquiring minds want to know ...

[iamgeniusrnti]

Okay ... how did it go? Did you get what you anticipated? Inquiring minds want to know ...

Thanks Don for the reading, learn something new everyday. I had to go back and research on one of your points and found it spot on.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, I had a rough week. As for the show, the lens didn't come in until today so I wound up using the lens that came with the camera (18 - 70mm I think and I don't remember the F-stop but I think it's 3.5 - 5.6).

In a way I am glad I didn't get the lens. After playing with it today, you are right, it needs a lot of light. But the pictures I took at the show with the other lens weren't half bad. It helped being in the second row

I used ISO 1600 on Aperture priority (wide open). I let the camera find its own shutter speed. Some pics were blurry but overall it worked great.

The only real challenge was that sometimes my daughter who was sitting right next to me need a picture because she was doing some "cute". Since it was lit in the seating area, I had to rapidly switch to Auto before the "cute" moment died LOL!

Attached are two of the pics. Don't beat me up too bad, I never owned a DSLR before:P - This upcoming weekend is the air show. It should be a nice day so I am looking forward to breaking out the 300. Without a tri-pod stable pics are going to be an issue with the 300 even with "super steady shot".

With my limited knowledge, I am guessing I need to use speed priority. In broad sunlight auto ISO and aperture should work fine... keep in mind I am totally guessing. Also I probably should have posed that question in another thread LOL!

[DonSchap]

Thanks Don for the reading, learn something new everyday. I had to go back and research on one of your points and found it spot on.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, I had a rough week. As for the show, the lens didn't come in until today so I wound up using the lens
that came with the camera (18 - 70mm I think and I don't remember the F-stop but I think it's 3.5 - 5.6).

In a way I am glad I didn't get the lens. After playing with it today, you are right, it needs a lot of light. But the pictures I took at the show
with the other lens weren't half bad. It helped being in the second row

I used ISO 1600 on Aperture priority (wide open). I let the camera find its own shutter speed. Some pics were blurry but overall it worked great.

The only real challenge was that sometimes my daughter who was sitting right next to me need a picture because she was doing some "cute".
Since it was lit in the seating area, I had to rapidly switch to Auto before the "cute" moment died LOL!

Attached are two of the pics. Don't beat me up too bad, I never owned a DSLR before:P - This upcoming weekend is the air show. It should
be a nice day so I am looking forward to breaking out the 300. Without a tri-pod stable pics are going to be an issue with the 300 even with
"super steady shot".

With my limited knowledge, I am guessing I need to use speed priority. In broad sunlight auto ISO and aperture should work fine... keep in mind
I am totally guessing. Also I probably should have posed that question in another thread LOL!

Well, to be honest, they turned out just as predicted. Experience will be a far better teacher than having someone tell you. It's the one
thing a photographer can always look back at his effort and say: "Yep, need to find me a way around that."

Like we detailed in the original exchange, you need faster glass for an indoor shot like this. For one thing, it wouldn't be blurry, because
your shutter speed would be significantly faster. Also, if you forget what your settings were for each shot, it is attached to them and
called "EXIF Data".

To retrieve it:

1. right click on the file,
2. roll down to "Properties" in the menu,
3. then click on the "Summary" tab
4. click the "Advanced" button.

There you should see the Camera Make, Camera Model, Color Representation, Shutter Speed, Lens Aperture, Flash Mode, Focal Length,
F-number, Exposure Time, ISO Speed, Metering Mode, Exposure Program ...etc.

How about posting the EXIF Data for your two shots? It'll help identify camera adjustments that may be made on the next round and give
the rest of us something to weigh into the discussion.

[iamgeniusrnti]

They shall be posted when I get home from work tonight and looking forward to the feedback.

[iamgeniusrnti]

For the two knights fighting:
Filename : DSC00571.JPG
JFIF_APP1 : Exif
Main Information
ImageDescription : SONY DSC
Make : SONY
Model : DSLR-A300
Orientation : left-hand side
XResolution : 72/1
YResolution : 72/1
ResolutionUnit : Inch
Software : DSLR-A300 v1.00
DateTime : 2008:01:19 22:41:33
YCbCrPositioning : co-sited
ExifInfoOffset : 390
PrintIM IFD : 124Bytes
Print Image Matching Info
Version : 0300
Unknown (0001) : 16 00 16 00
Unknown (0002) : 01 00 00 00
Unknown (0003) : 34 00 00 00
Unknown (0100) : 05 00 00 00
Unknown (0101) : 00 00 00 00
Unknown (0110) : 80 00 00 00
Sub Information
ExposureTime : 1/20Sec
FNumber : F5.6
ExposureProgram : Aperture Priority
ISOSpeedRatings : 1600
ExifVersion : 0221
DateTimeOriginal : 2008:01:19 22:41:33
DateTimeDigitized : 2008:01:19 22:41:33
ComponentConfiguration : YCbCr
CompressedBitsPerPixel : 8/1 (bit/pixel)
BrightnessValue : EV0.5
ExposureBiasValue : EV0.0
MaxApertureValue : F5.6
MeteringMode : Division
LightSource : Unidentified
Flash : Not fired(Compulsory)
FocalLength : 60.00(mm)
MakerNote : SONY Format : 29600Bytes (Offset:976)
UserComment :
FlashPixVersion : 0100
ColorSpace : sRGB
ExifImageWidth : 3872
ExifImageHeight : 2592
ExifInteroperabilityOffset : 30564
FileSource : DSC
SceneType : A directly photographed image
CustomRendered : Normal process
ExposureMode : Auto
WhiteBalance : Auto
FocalLength(35mm) : 90(mm)
SceneCaptureType : Standard
Contrast : Normal
Saturation : Normal
Sharpness : Normal
Vendor Original Information
Unknown (0010)7,5506 : Offset:1246
Unknown (0018)7,4096 : Offset:6752
Unknown (0020)7,19154 : Offset:10848
Unknown (0102)4,1 : 2
Unknown (0104)10,1 : 0/10
Unknown (0105)4,1 : 0
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Unknown (0115)4,1 : 0
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Unknown (2002)4,1 : 0
Unknown (2003)2,256 :
Unknown (B021)4,1 : 0
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Unknown (B023)4,1 : 0
Unknown (B024)4,1 : 0
Unknown (B025)4,1 : 1
Unknown (B026)4,1 : 1
Unknown (B027)4,1 : 40
Unknown (B029)4,1 : 0
Unknown (B02A)1,8 : 0
ExifR98
ExifR : R98
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Thumbnail Information
Compression : OLDJPEG
Orientation : left-hand side
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YResolution : 72/1
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JPEGInterchangeFormatLength : 3597
YCbCrPositioning : co-sited

[iamgeniusrnti]

And for the two horses:

Filename : DSC00507.JPG
JFIF_APP1 : Exif
Main Information
ImageDescription : SONY DSC
Make : SONY
Model : DSLR-A300
Orientation : left-hand side
XResolution : 72/1
YResolution : 72/1
ResolutionUnit : Inch
Software : DSLR-A300 v1.00
DateTime : 2008:01:19 21:46:47
YCbCrPositioning : co-sited
ExifInfoOffset : 390
PrintIM IFD : 124Bytes
Print Image Matching Info
Version : 0300
Unknown (0001) : 16 00 16 00
Unknown (0002) : 01 00 00 00
Unknown (0003) : 34 00 00 00
Unknown (0100) : 05 00 00 00
Unknown (0101) : 00 00 00 00
Unknown (0110) : 80 00 00 00
Sub Information
ExposureTime : 1/30Sec
FNumber : F5.6
ExposureProgram : Aperture Priority
ISOSpeedRatings : 1600
ExifVersion : 0221
DateTimeOriginal : 2008:01:19 21:46:47
DateTimeDigitized : 2008:01:19 21:46:47
ComponentConfiguration : YCbCr
CompressedBitsPerPixel : 8/1 (bit/pixel)
BrightnessValue : EV1.3
ExposureBiasValue : EV0.0
MaxApertureValue : F5.6
MeteringMode : Division
LightSource : Unidentified
Flash : Not fired(Compulsory)
FocalLength : 45.00(mm)
MakerNote : SONY Format : 29600Bytes (Offset:976)
UserComment :
FlashPixVersion : 0100
ColorSpace : sRGB
ExifImageWidth : 3872
ExifImageHeight : 2592
ExifInteroperabilityOffset : 30564
FileSource : DSC
SceneType : A directly photographed image
CustomRendered : Normal process
ExposureMode : Auto
WhiteBalance : Auto
FocalLength(35mm) : 67(mm)
SceneCaptureType : Standard
Contrast : Normal
Saturation : Normal
Sharpness : Normal
Vendor Original Information
Unknown (0010)7,5506 : Offset:1246
Unknown (0018)7,4096 : Offset:6752
Unknown (0020)7,19154 : Offset:10848
Unknown (0102)4,1 : 2
Unknown (0104)10,1 : 0/10
Unknown (0105)4,1 : 0
Unknown (0112)4,1 : 0
Unknown (0114)7,280 : Offset:30010
Unknown (0115)4,1 : 0
Unknown (2000)7,1 : Offset:1094
Unknown (2001)7,493680 : Offset:2490359
Unknown (2002)4,1 : 0
Unknown (2003)2,256 :
Unknown (B021)4,1 : 0
Unknown (B022)4,1 : 0
Unknown (B023)4,1 : 0
Unknown (B024)4,1 : 0
Unknown (B025)4,1 : 1
Unknown (B026)4,1 : 1
Unknown (B027)4,1 : 40
Unknown (B029)4,1 : 0
Unknown (B02A)1,8 : 0
ExifR98
ExifR : R98
Version : 0100
Thumbnail Information
Compression : OLDJPEG
Orientation : left-hand side
XResolution : 72/1
YResolution : 72/1
ResolutionUnit : Inch
JPEGInterchangeFormat : 40294
JPEGInterchangeFormatLength : 3157
YCbCrPositioning : co-sited

[DonSchap]

Yeah, that's it ... the images are "blurry" because of slow shutter speed, as anticipated.

The first being at 1/20th of a second
The second for 1/30 sec.

At these speeds, NOTHING - and I mean nothing can move ... not you, the camera, the subject. It is a "No Action" shutter speed
selection (unless you are panning).

"SSS" probably worked, here ... but, I suspect the camera would not be as much a problem as the "moving" subjects. I mean, it is
possible, but "SSS" can usually handle that, at these speeds ... unless you are just being jostled about.

The rules for freezing motion with Shutter Speed kind of go like this ... but don't hold me to it.

Normal sitting portrait ... 1/60th, hopefully to prevent 'the blink.'
Some motion (Children moving around, etc) ... 1/125th usually will do it
Animated children ... 1/250
Walking or dancing ... 1/500
Running ... 1/600 or higher
Cars in motion ... 1/1000th
Cars at highway speeds ... 1/2000th or higher

So from these speed guidelines ... sword fighting and dancing ponies require roughly a minimum of 1/250th
to 1/500th, to "properly" sharpen them up.

Using your camera knowledge, based on your current exposure settings (the EXIF Data you provided) ... let's
just sit down and see through recalculation what lens and camera settings would be to match what you have
currently and would provide a minimum 1/250th-of-a-second shutter speed.

Image 1 (current):
Ev 0
Focal Length: 60mm
Aperture: f/5.6
Shutter Speed: 1/20th sec
ISO: 1600
Dist: ~20 ft
DOF (Calculated): 15 ft

Calculating for new 0Ev
New speed: 1/250
New ISO: 1600
New Aperture: f/1.8
new DOF: 3.5 ft
Selected cost-effective lens that can do this: 50mm f/1.7 ($100)


Image 2 (current):
Ev 0
Focal Length: 45mm
Aperture: f/5.6
Shutter Speed: 1/30th sec
ISO: 1600
Dist: ~ 20 ft
DOF (Calculated): 8 ft

Calculating for new 0Ev
New speed: 1/250
New ISO: 1600
New Aperture: f/2
new DOF: 3.9 ft
Selected cost-effective lens that can do this: 50mm f/1.7

So, in the end, a low-cost Minolta 50mm f/1.7 lens would have provided excellent focus and the shutter
speed necessary. Unfortunately, you still would have had some noise issues with ISO @ 1600, but that's
(not trying to sound pompous, here ... just practical) forgivable, considering you are not shooting with a
"pro" or high-end camera. You use what you have in hand. The intro cameras just don't excel at ISO-1600,
plain and simple.

The point of the exercise is, that by analyzing the result of the first shoot, you can get a handle on what
lens you could bring to the "next" party, indoors, for improved results. Who knows, you may go back!

(EDIT: Use Manual Mode, not AUTO, Program, Aperture priority or Shutter Priority - and so that 'SONYNUT' doesn't have a stroke ... )

Just don't forget the new lens.