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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    92
    It is all about snobery. Some Large Format shooters say that everything else is inferior, some Medium Format shooters say that all DSLRs are a waste. Then we get to the DSLR crowd who just jab at each other, my lens is bigger than your lens, blah, blah blah. As has been said over and over, if you can take good pictures it doesn't matter what you use, and if you can't it still doesn't matter what you use. PP helps level the playing fields even more anyway.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Posts
    788
    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulff View Post
    Sorry, but I can't let this unsubstantiated, rash generalisation pass unchallenged!



    I bought my first camera in 1957 (a little VP Twin half-frame camera that took 127 film) and since than handled and/or owned numerous camera brands, types, and film formats.

    I've just bought a (bottom-end LOL) Sony DSC W-150, which for its $199 price tag is giving me exemplary images. Why? Because I know exactly how to use it to the fullest of its technical capabilities, plus learning all there is to know about photography over the last half century.

    And to assert that the bottom-end of the consumer market is the most influenced by slick market-speak is also totally unfounded unless you have any empirical evidence other than simply your own personal opinion.

    Your patronising opinion of the "bottom end" of the camera market smacks all too highly of camera snobbery to me. Does one have to use a dSLR to escape that imaginary hell-hole of yours?

    Cheers
    I think he is indicating the bottom of the SLR market. I would guess that most of the people in this forum also own a point & shoot. There are just times when an SLR is too big to carry with you. I know my wife and I use our little Sony P&S a lot. It's amazing what those little buggers can do these days. I think a lot of people that used to shoot SLR have gone to compact P&S because they offer most of the quality and capability with a lot less trouble and cost.

    However there are a lot of people who probably should be shooting with a P&S that are instead buying A300/Rebel/D60/etc. They put it in auto and take pictures of their kids the way that they would with a P&S. Generally speaking, with the exception of low light performance, a DSLR in auto doesn't take pictures any better than a P&S. These same people would have no interest in going on a photo walk with me.

    You are simply in the smart crowd that knows what they are doing with a camera, and realizes that 95% of what you want can be done with that W-150, without worrying about an f-stop.

    I actually helped pick out a W-150 for my wife's grandmother a few weeks ago. We have about a year older Sony we love, but the W-150 added a mondo zoom, and its a little smaller. She probably has the ability to take better pictures with my A300 than I do, but the little camera serves her needs perfectly.
    Jason Hamilton
    Selective Frame

    EOS 5D - Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 35 f/2, EF 50mm f/1.8 Mk II, EF 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 (with EOS adapter), 430EX, Canon S90
    Nikon FE - Nikkor 35mm f/2 AI'd, Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 AI, Nikkor 105mm f/2.5 AI, F to EF adapter, 2xVivitar 285, other lighting stuff
    Mamiya C220 - 80mm f/2.8

    Gear List flickr

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    901
    I would not presume to know enough about Don to say whether or not he is a snob in this sense.

    I think that saying dSLR owners are snobs about P&S owners is a bit much, though, as every dSLR owner I personally know also owns at least 1 P&S digital camera.

    Ray.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    176
    i guess im confused, someone help me out are u guys bored or something. You have your own forum so crawl back to your hole please. We dont need any help, why are you hijacking the forum i dont get it. I also believe these guys in the sony forum have been a huge help to me, so they love the product they are using like you love what your using. So my suggestion instead of being fools, use your talents to help a young photograher like myself. Im sure there are some on your forum, oh wait if not they must be buying a sony. God forbid that, to each is own what ever your flavor is it is.
    Sony A350
    Sony 18-250mm Lens
    Sony 50mm f1.4
    F42AM flash

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    901
    Quote Originally Posted by millz View Post
    here rooz rooz rooz, Ill bet we get a guest appearance oh i cant wait.
    Quote Originally Posted by millz View Post
    i guess im confused, someone help me out are u guys bored or something. You have your own forum so crawl back to your hole please. We dont need any help, why are you hijacking the forum i dont get it. I also believe these guys in the sony forum have been a huge help to me, so they love the product they are using like you love what your using. So my suggestion instead of being fools, use your talents to help a young photograher like myself. Im sure there are some on your forum, oh wait if not they must be buying a sony. God forbid that, to each is own what ever your flavor is it is.
    I must be mistaken, I thought that this was a forum about Sony dSLRs, not a forum of Sony dSLR owners.

    I personally enjoy learning about the nuances of Sony, Canon and Nikon dSLRs and will continue to do so.

    Looking at your above posts, I was under the impression that you did want input from people other than Sony dSLR owners.

    Ray.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560

    Talking Snobbery ... yeah, that's funny.

    Gentlemen ... let me clear the air ... -cough cough- ... and state that "snobbery is certainly not at the heart of any discussion in this forum."

    Man, moment and machine is.

    Despite what some people may think, these cameras do NOT take their own images. Someone has to be behind it ... and as such, you become part of the equation as holder (deciding on how the camera will be held), triggering agent (decide when the camera's shutter release will be tripped) and framer (the guidance system for the camera's iris).

    Most of the discussions are intended to improve upon those things that we can control ... and try to avoid those that we cannot. Obviously, with the SONY DSLR internal stabilization (with ALL lenses) plays a major role in some of those things we can now control, across the board. So, despite its dismissal by some, either by having dealt with non-stabilized imaging in the past or having to deal with the fact that their camera system STILL does not have stabilization across the optical board ... I believe it will always be a factor worth considering indoors and with the 'average hand-held shot.' It is just one of those unavoidable facts in shooting digital images, today.

    Now, I will admit ... I am not building them, just shooting through them ... and if you want my opinion on the issue, having stability seems to be better than not. When I owned my Canon DSLR system, I had one lens with stability in it. One out of nearly fifteen new or reasonably good optics
    • 11-18 f/4.5-5.6,
    • 17-50 f/2.8,
    • 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3,
    • 28-75 f/2.8,
    • 28-105 f/2.8,
    • 70-200 f/2.8L IS USM, (has stabilization)
    • 75-300 f/4-5.6,
    • 200-500mm f/5-6.3,
    • 28 f/2.8,
    • 35 f/2,
    • 50 f/1.8,
    • 85 f/1.8,
    • 135 f/2.5,
    • 200 f/3.5,
    • 200-500 f/6.9


    So, unless I shot through my heavy (52 oz) 70-200mm f/2.8 IS USM lens ... I had nothing but high-ISO to fire with. Replacing all those lenses just to get image stability? I don't think so!

    I like image stability SO MUCH ... I bought into a system FULL of it. Going with SONY DSLR ... of which I also had ten original lenses ... EVERY single lens, zoom or PRIME ... ALL had some degree of "instantly added" image stability when mounted on SONY Alpha and ISO didn't matter. I was so impressed, I bought an additional 20 lenses just to enjoy it.

    So, in 2007, I sold most of everything I had, in Canon ... because they simply are not seeing the light. I wrote them, pleaded with them and even protested loudly ... but, to no avail. Snobbery? Nah, PRACTICALITY! Plain and, obviously, not so simple to understand by some. Nothing has changed, in the past three years. I still would have had to buy all new lenses to get image stability and, more to the point, most of the Canon shorter PRIMEs and MACRO lenses STILL do not have it. Even the third party manufacturers are slow to produce these kind of lenses.

    The SONY system has worked, from day one. Has yours? I do not get the angst. Why fight about it? If my point is not clear enough ... present someone else's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Schnoor View Post
    I must be mistaken, I thought that this was a forum about Sony dSLRs, not a forum of Sony dSLR owners.
    BTW: Ray, if your are shooting through a SONY DSLR ... chances are you are the owner ... unless you are still a pre-owner.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 03-12-2009 at 02:32 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Posts
    788
    I don't think I have every seen anything out of Don that could be called "snobbery." Maybe he comes down a little hard on the kit lens and older film glass than some think is appropriate, but if anything he has a big interest in bang for the buck instead of popular glass.

    When I cruise around flickr I find an increasing number of GREAT images shot on an entry level DSLR. I think it is easy to forget just how good these things are. There is not a DSLR on the market that isn't capable of positively stunning imagery given decent (not-great) glass and good light. There is a lot of versatility to be found in higher end cameras (huge prints(medium-large format), low light (D700) high speed for sports (D3/1D)), but that is just a matter of having the proper tool for the job.
    Jason Hamilton
    Selective Frame

    EOS 5D - Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 35 f/2, EF 50mm f/1.8 Mk II, EF 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 USM, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 (with EOS adapter), 430EX, Canon S90
    Nikon FE - Nikkor 35mm f/2 AI'd, Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 AI, Nikkor 105mm f/2.5 AI, F to EF adapter, 2xVivitar 285, other lighting stuff
    Mamiya C220 - 80mm f/2.8

    Gear List flickr

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Guelph, Ontario
    Posts
    1,903
    increased SONY market share is good for everyone especially Canikon users.
    more competition always brings out the best in technology!
    Canon EOS 7D

    flickr
    FLUIDR

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    8,163
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Schnoor View Post
    every dSLR owner I personally know also owns at least 1 P&S digital camera.

    Ray.
    Yeah and I own two.

    Two digital SLRs
    One flm SLR
    Two digital P&S.

    All are fine cameras.
    Ouch.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
    Posts
    10,424
    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulff View Post
    Sorry, but I can't let this unsubstantiated, rash generalisation pass unchallenged!

    I bought my first camera in 1957 (a little VP Twin half-frame camera that took 127 film) and since than handled and/or owned numerous camera brands, types, and film formats.

    I've just bought a (bottom-end LOL) Sony DSC W-150, which for its $199 price tag is giving me exemplary images. Why? Because I know exactly how to use it to the fullest of its technical capabilities, plus learning all there is to know about photography over the last half century.

    And to assert that the bottom-end of the consumer market is the most influenced by slick market-speak is also totally unfounded unless you have any empirical evidence other than simply your own personal opinion.

    Your patronising opinion of the "bottom end" of the camera market smacks all too highly of camera snobbery to me. Does one have to use a dSLR to escape that imaginary hell-hole of yours?

    Cheers
    congratulations...and all irrelevant to my statement since this is about dslr's. a simple "sorry i misunderstood" would suffice about now.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

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