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View Poll Results: Should ISO be “automatically” calculated in the MANUAL Mode? (SONY does not)

Voters
14. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, I believe it should be a menu option

    5 35.71%
  • No, MANUAL Mode means “manual”

    7 50.00%
  • Undecided

    0 0%
  • This aspect bothers me so much that I am going to another manufacturer.

    2 14.29%
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Thread: Iso - auto

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Like I said, you pick your poison. Personally, I will not saddle myself with SIGMA. It is a personal choice, of course ...
    ah...but again, that was not the intent of your post Don. not at all. you are backpeddling. the post was not about preference. the post was about capability. ie: you cannot get IS capability on a 500mm lens unless you buy a 500/4 prime. this is of course wrong.

    just like Nikon is your flavor this time. SONY(Minolta) and TAMRON are pretty tight. I suspect one would not compromise the other. SIGMA is a lot like an uninvited guest or party crasher ... so you figure it out.
    this is not about "flavours" or preferences. this is about capabilities and presenting a balanced view. i have nothing against ANY user buying ANY brand. i do take exception to people posting intentionally misleading information and trying to sell it as fact, when its clearly not.

    oh, and just as a bit of a FYI, sigma's "bigma" series of long tele zooms have a far better reputation than any long range tamron zooms. there is reason for that, they are better quality lens' in this type of range.

    If they finally have developed a OS lens for Canon and Nikon user community, that is great. At least, now, the non-IS bodies will have something they can cling to instead of just a high-priced PRIME.
    theres also the 100-400IS and 80-400VR.

    From the oldest to the newest one in the line-up ... it still has stabilization. Get on board, pal! 24-year-old-AF-glass ... stabilized.
    oh really ? and how many people exactly do you know who buy 24yo glass ? you yourself had a thread recently didnt you out the inferior quality of old lens' on digital media ?

    regadless of all this. there is certianly a benefit to be had with in body IS to stabilise prime lens' cos even the newer primes dont have IS. but you dont leave it at that. you make up stories and tell fibs. so i'm gonna call you out on them. besides which your recent bird shots show exactly what the limitations of IS can be. they do not stop motion. so while good for trinket shots, they dont have great results in real world applications all of the time if you;re shooting anything moving.

    let people make their decisions on the facts; not hysterical, baseless fanatacism.
    Last edited by Rooz; 03-08-2009 at 10:26 PM.
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  2. #32
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    What's inside your camera?

    You choose as you wish. That has always been the case. I occasionally blow shots. It's not perfect. I also know when I mount a prime ... I have that extra layer of give because the camera says, here ... it's yours, for free.

    If you want a camera system that denies stability unless you ratchet up the ISO or buy a lens of incredible cost ... so be it, Jim. Shoot until you can't stand it.

    I prefer being able to say, in a darkened bar, "Hey, buddy ... got a plain vanilla 50mm f/1.8 on ya?" and get much sharper hand held shot at ISO 400 than someone sporting a Canonikon with the same lens, pushing ISO 3200 for the same darn exposure. That's just asking a bit too much out of an "XT-class" camera, in my opinion, but not much out of an SONY A200.

    Enjoy what you shoot. I know, I do.

    These cameras all have their intrinsic values. If you shoot SONY, you know what you have. If your shoot Canon ... you know what you have. I know I did ... and that is emphasis on the "DID" part. If you have a Nikon, just ask 'Rooz' what you have. You will find him here, espousing the joys of shooting with his currently unavailable lenses on the SONY DSLR forum.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 03-09-2009 at 01:18 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    You choose as you wish. That has always been the case. I occasionally blow shots. It's not perfect. I also know when I mount a prime ... I have that extra layer of give because the camera says, here ... it's yours, for free.

    If you want a camera system that denies stability unless you ratchet up the ISO or buy a lens of incredible cost ... so be it, Jim. Shoot until you can't stand it.

    I prefer being able to say, in a darkened bar, "Hey, buddy ... got a plain vanilla 50mm f/1.8 on ya?" and get much sharper hand held shot at ISO 400 than someone sporting a Canonikon with the same lens, pushing ISO 3200 for the same darn exposure. That's just asking a bit too much out of an "XT-class" camera, in my opinion, but not much out of an SONY A200.

    Enjoy what you shoot. I know, I do.

    These camera all have their intrinsic values. If you shoot SONY, you know what you have. If your shoot Canon ... you know what you have. I know I did ... and that is emphasis on the "DID" part. If you have a Nikon, just ask 'Rooz' what you have. You will find him here, espousing on the SONY DSLR forum
    I've already taken my Canon system and proved I could take the same shot that you could with your Sony system with aplomb. You told me my technique was too advanced, and I wasn't being fair to newbies.

    I have proven time and time again that Sony lenses cost more than the equivalent Canon lens. You say buy Minolta. But then you say in the next post that film glass shouldn't be used on a digital camera.

    You say you'd rather shoot with your ISO 400 and in body IS than shoot a Canon and push 3200 ISO. I'd say that I got the same shot.

    I know what I have in my Canon and I have asked you time and time again to put your system where your mouth is, yet every time you refuse. Like Rooz said much more eloquently than I ever could you purposely deceive and lie in order to prove your point. I could care less what system you shoot with...really I could care less. But when you skew facts, spout half truths, create wild ass scenarios, and just plain lie to prove your fantastic hypothesis, I can't stand by and watch.

    BTW it's tough when someone from another forum pokes his head in here and debates your system isn't it? I seem to remember that being one of my points a long time ago, about a certain member poking his head in another forum and touting his system. Rooz and I aren't even touting our systems, you drag us into that.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    I also know when I mount a prime ... I have that extra layer of give because the camera says, here ... it's yours, for free.
    this is not a point of contention. i agree this can be an advantage. hell, i'd love to have IS built into my d300. who wouldnt ? but i also understand and can rationalise the advantages of it.

    If you want a camera system that denies stability unless you ratchet up the ISO or buy a lens of incredible cost ... so be it, Jim. Shoot until you can't stand it.
    a 35mm f1.8 costs $199.

    I prefer being able to say, in a darkened bar, "Hey, buddy ... got a plain vanilla 50mm f/1.8 on ya?" and get much sharper hand held shot at ISO 400 than someone sporting a Canonikon with the same lens, pushing ISO 3200 for the same darn exposure. That's just asking a bit too much out of an "XT-class" camera, in my opinion, but not much out of an SONY A200.
    take a picture of what ? a painting on a wall ? a glass ? what exactly are you shoting in a dark bar at 1/5th of a second ? certianly nothing moving. for people you need 1/50s as a bare minimum for consistency. at that speed i can shoot with my cheap 50/1.4 or even cheaper $100 1.8 all night, no problem.

    These camera all have their intrinsic values. If you shoot SONY, you know what you have. If your shoot Canon ... you know what you have. I know I did ... and that is emphasis on the "DID" part.
    so keep it at that. be honest and truthful instead of being disingenuous and we won't need to have this discussion again. i can shoot what i want with any system. i may be shooting with a canon soon in addition to the d300 and i have no reservations about being able to get the same quality. shooting with nikon is a preference, not a necessity.

    If you have a Nikon, just ask 'Rooz' what you have. You will find him here, espousing on the SONY DSLR forum
    what i'm doing is exposing...not espousing. what you did was post a topic that was deceitpful, i'm calling you out on it. simple.
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  5. #35
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    Cool An invitation to improvement ...

    Guys, guys, guys ... if the SONY has your interest ... this is the SONY Style link, where you can easily TRADE UP.

    Don't blame me for dragging you into the SONY DSLR thread ... although being here does have a certain attraction, I must admit. But for all your singing and dancing this issue to death ... with imaginary lenses and whatnot, I suspect you doth complain a bit too much.

    Feel free to return to Canikon-land and contribute something when you are shooting through it. Your fantasy use is becoming droll and contentious. I, at least, took a good year with the Canon before I sent it all on its way. Fair being fair, I invite you to just step right up and do likewise.

    Rooz, be honest ... when was the last time you SONY'd up to your eyeball and shot something with it? C'mon ...

    See ya.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 03-08-2009 at 11:20 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Guys, guys, guys ... if the SONY has your interest ... this is the SONY Style link, where you can easily TRADE UP.

    Don't blame me for dragging you into the SONY DSLR thread ... although being here does have a certain attraction, I must admit. But for all your singing and dancing this issue to death ... with imaginary lenses and whatnot, I suspect you doth complain a bit too much.

    Feel free to return to Canikon-land and contribute something when you are shooting through it. Your fantasy use is becoming droll and contentious. I, at least, took a good year with the Canon before I sent it all on its way. Fair being fair, I invite you to just step right up and do likewise.

    See ya.
    Fantasy? What Fantasy? Now you've actually made me a bit angry. Are you accusing me of lying? Accusing me of making up facts? Accusing me of making up lenses? What exactly do you mean with that middle paragraph? I invite you to point out ONE lie in any of my posts. Go ahead, I'll wait.

    Take a look in the Canon POD thread I have contributed plenty of times. Not fantasy, not sword hilts, not Captain America, real subjects, real world. I use my equipment and get great shots from it. I also get some real duds.

    I have no desire to give Sony a try. I have no need to. I have no doubt I could produce good photographs with a Sony system, no doubt at all. Same thing goes for Nikon, Panasonic, Olympus, Fuji, etc. I have a Canon, that's what I use. If I had a Sony, that's what I'd use. I would work within Sony's constraints just like I work within Canon's constraints now. Sony is far from perfect, but then again the same can be said for Canon or Nikon. All I ask is that you back your statements with photos. Criticism is going to be harsh, you open yourself to it with your hubris. You place yourself in the spotlight and then can't stand the heat. I don't need to pick up a Sony to see where you are coming from, the burden is on you, the Sony user to prove to me it's superiority. I have already accepted one of your challenges and proved you dead wrong. How was that for a fantasy?
    Last edited by TenD; 03-08-2009 at 11:26 PM.
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  7. #37
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    Lousy manufacturer's page upkeep

    Alright ... time to go to SIGMA (I hate this part) ... (<- please, click on their link)

    Okay, the SIGMA web page is not up-to-date ... so let's drop the issue. It was my impression that the lens had not be released as yet. I apologize for any confusion in that regard. I have subsequently gone to B&H and found that they are now selling it for around $879.

    And I admit, Jim, you were oh-so-right about the contest. Shooting at 1/15th of a second was far too easy. I am willing to up the ante ... just to be a good sport. I admit it was a lot more fun with someone less controlled with their breathing and hold. I am sure the youngin's are getting a kick out of watching two battleaxe's go after it.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 03-09-2009 at 01:19 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Alright ... time to go to SIGMA (I hate this part) ...

    Okay, the SIGMA web page is not up-to-date ... so let's drop the issue. It was my impression that the lens had not be released as yet. I apologize for any confusion in that regard.
    Sure looks to be real enough to me. What would you like me to test? Test to prove it's real? I assure you it is. I am very confused by what you are expecting?
    A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
    Ansel Adams

    Rule books are paper, they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal.
    Ernest K. Gann-Fate is the Hunter.

  9. #39
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    AUTO just was not considered TRUE MANUAL

    BTW: 'Rooz' ... Manual is still Manual ... despite a modified implementation of it by Nikon (Canon, too?). SONY did it their way for a reason, because it is purposely detailed and not left out of the manual. In other words, this was no oversight, as you seem to want to describe it. What part of deceitful is that? Heck ... I'll show you the page upon which it is written.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 03-09-2009 at 01:20 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  10. #40
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    Question It wasn't even my idea ....

    Quote Originally Posted by TenD View Post
    Sure looks to be real enough to me. What would you like me to test? Test to prove it's real? I assure you it is. I am very confused by what you are expecting?
    How do I get dragged into this?

    Look, you and 'Rooz' can fire-for-effect and see how far it can stabilize the shot, handheld. Frankly, I am completely unconcerned. SIGMA does NOT even offer OS for the SONY or Pentax mount. It's a moot point. I get what stabilization I get out of the camera body. I always will. That's my point. I do not need a special lens.

    Try as you will ... I am sticking with SONY, until they quit making it. I have a feeling things are about to get a lot better ...

    [while standing at the entrance to the Triple Rock church watching the service with much dancing and Hallelujah choruses, a heavenly light shines down on Jake Blues and he has an epiphany]
    Jake: The band... the band...
    Reverend Cleophus James: DO YOU SEE THE LIGHT?
    Jake: THE BAND!
    Reverend Cleophus James: DO YOU SEE THE LIGHT?
    Elwood: What light?
    Reverend Cleophus James: HAVE YOU SEEEEN THE LIGHT?
    Jake: YES! YES! JESUS H. TAP-DANCING CHRIST... I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT!

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    and the light was good!
    Last edited by DonSchap; 03-09-2009 at 12:00 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

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