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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    16

    Medeival Times photos

    Hi,

    New to photography and recently bought an A300. I have a Sony 70 - 300mm lens on its way and intend to take it to Medeival Times on Sunday for my wife's Mother's Day.

    It is a colloseum setting and although it is lit, the lights are high up. I don't expect to be using the flash but will be taking a lot of action shots.

    I figure I will be using a high ISO but unsure of the Apeture and speed settings.

    Anyone who has taken shots in these castles want to suggest some settings?

    I will be sitting in the 2nd or third row.

    Thank you in advance!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
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    Cool Low light challenges

    Not to be flippant, but I suggest really borrowing a SONY CZ 135mm f/1.8 lens and keep your fingers crossed.

    No flash indoors for the 70-300 is kind of the kiss of death for that lens. If you cannot achieve autofocus ... don't waste your time. "Action shots"
    will be smears trying to get it with shutter speed changes.

    Even f/2.8 lenses are severely challenged w/o movement. Don't wait until you get to the event (always a bad idea) ... just try shooting around the brightest lit
    room in your house ... and you will begin to get the idea. Go ahead and crank your ISO to 1600 ... even 3200, if you can. The images will be speckled (digital
    noise), but you may at least get "something" recognizable. Have a child walk through the shot, to simulate "action." It should be quite revealing at anything
    slower than 1/60 second.

    I am not trying to be brutal, but the 70-300 was designed as an outdoor lens. They were NOT kidding! The 70-200mm f/2.8 is the best long zoom for
    indoor work, but often requires some assistance with lighting, such as a very sunny day and large, uncurtained windows, to turn out decent "no flash" images.
    The CZ 135mm f/1.8 is going to be the longest prime lens you can get a hold of for the SONY system. It is effectively a 200mm shot on a APS-C sensor
    camera ... and that is pretty good. A new problem creeps up in the form of DOF (Depth of Field),
    as gets very shallow at that aperture (mere inches), so it is critical for your subject to be correctly focused upon. The neat thing is that you can back off
    to f/2 or f/2.5 and still get a "well-lit" image (relatively).

    Let's face it ... there isn't much else that can do that for you. Low light scenarios are the bane of the photographer. It costs real money to resolve them without a flash.

    In the end, you are the photographer and you know your audience for these shots ... it is up to you folks just how much of the lack of light you all find ... "acceptable."

    Here is a "fill flash" shot from their website ... to give you an idea of the "limited lighting" you will be dealing with ... from the 3rd row. Remember, the photographer
    was only about ten feet away ... not forty ... and used a pretty good flash unit.

    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Name:  medieval times.jpg
Views: 178
Size:  43.0 KB


    It won't be settings that get these shots ... it'll be a different lens.

    One other thing I could suggest, just to validate this, is try to get your hands on a "light meter" and simply MEASURE the amount of light you have to work with.
    Dial in the minimum f/5.6 aperture you currently have available at 300mm and then throw in your "ISO setting" and it will "spit" back the shutter speed necessary
    to achieve a good exposure. If it is longer than 1/60 sec ... your subject better be parked and you should have a tripod. Personally, I would expect it recommending
    no less than one-full-second, at ISO-1600/3200. Light meters are easy to get ... and you really only need to borrow it, until you need to make use of it consistently.
    They cost about the same as a "good" third party lens. You might even run over to the venue before the event ... to take this reading. At least, then, you will know
    what to expect.

    Good luck and consider it a "learning experience." We all have them.

    BTW: What settings usually give you a good, balanced exposure on a camera (using a 50mm lens)?

    Answer (and this is roughly it)
    Aperture: f/4 or f/5.6
    Shutter Speed: 1/60
    ISO: 400

    If you can get your available "lighting" to support these settings, you get a great shot (unless it is moving ... then you have to play). Usually, you adjust your
    settings to compliment this exposure level. It should all balance to this in the end.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 05-12-2009 at 06:09 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,204
    You have the 70-300mm G lens? eh, not that it really matters lol. F/4.5 or 5.6 will be dreadful as Don said.

    It's doable but your pictures will be so noisy. I would crank up the ISO to like 1600 or 3200 and hope there's enough light. If not don't feel bad, just enjoy the night!
    flickr

    Canon 7D - 5D | 550EX - 430EX II - (2) PW FlexTT5 | 24-105 f4L | 70-200 f2.8L IS | 100 f2.8L IS | 50 f1.8 II

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
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    Okay ... how did it go? Did you get what you anticipated? Inquiring minds want to know ...
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    16

    Resuts

    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    Okay ... how did it go? Did you get what you anticipated? Inquiring minds want to know ...
    Thanks Don for the reading, learn something new everyday. I had to go back and research on one of your points and found it spot on.

    Sorry it took so long to get back to you, I had a rough week. As for the show, the lens didn't come in until today so I wound up using the lens that came with the camera (18 - 70mm I think and I don't remember the F-stop but I think it's 3.5 - 5.6).

    In a way I am glad I didn't get the lens. After playing with it today, you are right, it needs a lot of light. But the pictures I took at the show with the other lens weren't half bad. It helped being in the second row

    I used ISO 1600 on Aperture priority (wide open). I let the camera find its own shutter speed. Some pics were blurry but overall it worked great.

    The only real challenge was that sometimes my daughter who was sitting right next to me need a picture because she was doing some "cute". Since it was lit in the seating area, I had to rapidly switch to Auto before the "cute" moment died LOL!

    Attached are two of the pics. Don't beat me up too bad, I never owned a DSLR before:P - This upcoming weekend is the air show. It should be a nice day so I am looking forward to breaking out the 300. Without a tri-pod stable pics are going to be an issue with the 300 even with "super steady shot".

    With my limited knowledge, I am guessing I need to use speed priority. In broad sunlight auto ISO and aperture should work fine... keep in mind I am totally guessing. Also I probably should have posed that question in another thread LOL!
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by iamgeniusrnti; 05-12-2009 at 02:59 PM.

  6. #6
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    Feb 2006
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    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
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    Red face I swear, I can see into the future ... LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by iamgeniusrnti View Post
    Thanks Don for the reading, learn something new everyday. I had to go back and research on one of your points and found it spot on.

    Sorry it took so long to get back to you, I had a rough week. As for the show, the lens didn't come in until today so I wound up using the lens
    that came with the camera (18 - 70mm I think and I don't remember the F-stop but I think it's 3.5 - 5.6).

    In a way I am glad I didn't get the lens. After playing with it today, you are right, it needs a lot of light. But the pictures I took at the show
    with the other lens weren't half bad. It helped being in the second row

    I used ISO 1600 on Aperture priority (wide open). I let the camera find its own shutter speed. Some pics were blurry but overall it worked great.

    The only real challenge was that sometimes my daughter who was sitting right next to me need a picture because she was doing some "cute".
    Since it was lit in the seating area, I had to rapidly switch to Auto before the "cute" moment died LOL!

    Attached are two of the pics. Don't beat me up too bad, I never owned a DSLR before:P - This upcoming weekend is the air show. It should
    be a nice day so I am looking forward to breaking out the 300. Without a tri-pod stable pics are going to be an issue with the 300 even with
    "super steady shot".

    With my limited knowledge, I am guessing I need to use speed priority. In broad sunlight auto ISO and aperture should work fine... keep in mind
    I am totally guessing. Also I probably should have posed that question in another thread LOL!
    Well, to be honest, they turned out just as predicted. Experience will be a far better teacher than having someone tell you. It's the one
    thing a photographer can always look back at his effort and say: "Yep, need to find me a way around that."

    Like we detailed in the original exchange, you need faster glass for an indoor shot like this. For one thing, it wouldn't be blurry, because
    your shutter speed would be significantly faster. Also, if you forget what your settings were for each shot, it is attached to them and
    called "EXIF Data".

    To retrieve it:
    1. right click on the file,
    2. roll down to "Properties" in the menu,
    3. then click on the "Summary" tab
    4. click the "Advanced" button.


    There you should see the Camera Make, Camera Model, Color Representation, Shutter Speed, Lens Aperture, Flash Mode, Focal Length,
    F-number, Exposure Time, ISO Speed, Metering Mode, Exposure Program
    ...etc.

    How about posting the EXIF Data for your two shots? It'll help identify camera adjustments that may be made on the next round and give
    the rest of us something to weigh into the discussion.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 05-12-2009 at 06:06 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    16
    They shall be posted when I get home from work tonight and looking forward to the feedback.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    16
    For the two knights fighting:
    Filename : DSC00571.JPG
    JFIF_APP1 : Exif
    Main Information
    ImageDescription : SONY DSC
    Make : SONY
    Model : DSLR-A300
    Orientation : left-hand side
    XResolution : 72/1
    YResolution : 72/1
    ResolutionUnit : Inch
    Software : DSLR-A300 v1.00
    DateTime : 2008:01:19 22:41:33
    YCbCrPositioning : co-sited
    ExifInfoOffset : 390
    PrintIM IFD : 124Bytes
    Print Image Matching Info
    Version : 0300
    Unknown (0001) : 16 00 16 00
    Unknown (0002) : 01 00 00 00
    Unknown (0003) : 34 00 00 00
    Unknown (0100) : 05 00 00 00
    Unknown (0101) : 00 00 00 00
    Unknown (0110) : 80 00 00 00
    Sub Information
    ExposureTime : 1/20Sec
    FNumber : F5.6
    ExposureProgram : Aperture Priority
    ISOSpeedRatings : 1600
    ExifVersion : 0221
    DateTimeOriginal : 2008:01:19 22:41:33
    DateTimeDigitized : 2008:01:19 22:41:33
    ComponentConfiguration : YCbCr
    CompressedBitsPerPixel : 8/1 (bit/pixel)
    BrightnessValue : EV0.5
    ExposureBiasValue : EV0.0
    MaxApertureValue : F5.6
    MeteringMode : Division
    LightSource : Unidentified
    Flash : Not fired(Compulsory)
    FocalLength : 60.00(mm)
    MakerNote : SONY Format : 29600Bytes (Offset:976)
    UserComment :
    FlashPixVersion : 0100
    ColorSpace : sRGB
    ExifImageWidth : 3872
    ExifImageHeight : 2592
    ExifInteroperabilityOffset : 30564
    FileSource : DSC
    SceneType : A directly photographed image
    CustomRendered : Normal process
    ExposureMode : Auto
    WhiteBalance : Auto
    FocalLength(35mm) : 90(mm)
    SceneCaptureType : Standard
    Contrast : Normal
    Saturation : Normal
    Sharpness : Normal
    Vendor Original Information
    Unknown (0010)7,5506 : Offset:1246
    Unknown (0018)7,4096 : Offset:6752
    Unknown (0020)7,19154 : Offset:10848
    Unknown (0102)4,1 : 2
    Unknown (0104)10,1 : 0/10
    Unknown (0105)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (0112)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (0114)7,280 : Offset:30010
    Unknown (0115)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (2000)7,1 : Offset:1094
    Unknown (2001)7,606741 : Offset:3014647
    Unknown (2002)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (2003)2,256 :
    Unknown (B021)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (B022)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (B023)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (B024)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (B025)4,1 : 1
    Unknown (B026)4,1 : 1
    Unknown (B027)4,1 : 40
    Unknown (B029)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (B02A)1,8 : 0
    ExifR98
    ExifR : R98
    Version : 0100
    Thumbnail Information
    Compression : OLDJPEG
    Orientation : left-hand side
    XResolution : 72/1
    YResolution : 72/1
    ResolutionUnit : Inch
    JPEGInterchangeFormat : 40294
    JPEGInterchangeFormatLength : 3597
    YCbCrPositioning : co-sited

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    16
    And for the two horses:

    Filename : DSC00507.JPG
    JFIF_APP1 : Exif
    Main Information
    ImageDescription : SONY DSC
    Make : SONY
    Model : DSLR-A300
    Orientation : left-hand side
    XResolution : 72/1
    YResolution : 72/1
    ResolutionUnit : Inch
    Software : DSLR-A300 v1.00
    DateTime : 2008:01:19 21:46:47
    YCbCrPositioning : co-sited
    ExifInfoOffset : 390
    PrintIM IFD : 124Bytes
    Print Image Matching Info
    Version : 0300
    Unknown (0001) : 16 00 16 00
    Unknown (0002) : 01 00 00 00
    Unknown (0003) : 34 00 00 00
    Unknown (0100) : 05 00 00 00
    Unknown (0101) : 00 00 00 00
    Unknown (0110) : 80 00 00 00
    Sub Information
    ExposureTime : 1/30Sec
    FNumber : F5.6
    ExposureProgram : Aperture Priority
    ISOSpeedRatings : 1600
    ExifVersion : 0221
    DateTimeOriginal : 2008:01:19 21:46:47
    DateTimeDigitized : 2008:01:19 21:46:47
    ComponentConfiguration : YCbCr
    CompressedBitsPerPixel : 8/1 (bit/pixel)
    BrightnessValue : EV1.3
    ExposureBiasValue : EV0.0
    MaxApertureValue : F5.6
    MeteringMode : Division
    LightSource : Unidentified
    Flash : Not fired(Compulsory)
    FocalLength : 45.00(mm)
    MakerNote : SONY Format : 29600Bytes (Offset:976)
    UserComment :
    FlashPixVersion : 0100
    ColorSpace : sRGB
    ExifImageWidth : 3872
    ExifImageHeight : 2592
    ExifInteroperabilityOffset : 30564
    FileSource : DSC
    SceneType : A directly photographed image
    CustomRendered : Normal process
    ExposureMode : Auto
    WhiteBalance : Auto
    FocalLength(35mm) : 67(mm)
    SceneCaptureType : Standard
    Contrast : Normal
    Saturation : Normal
    Sharpness : Normal
    Vendor Original Information
    Unknown (0010)7,5506 : Offset:1246
    Unknown (0018)7,4096 : Offset:6752
    Unknown (0020)7,19154 : Offset:10848
    Unknown (0102)4,1 : 2
    Unknown (0104)10,1 : 0/10
    Unknown (0105)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (0112)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (0114)7,280 : Offset:30010
    Unknown (0115)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (2000)7,1 : Offset:1094
    Unknown (2001)7,493680 : Offset:2490359
    Unknown (2002)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (2003)2,256 :
    Unknown (B021)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (B022)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (B023)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (B024)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (B025)4,1 : 1
    Unknown (B026)4,1 : 1
    Unknown (B027)4,1 : 40
    Unknown (B029)4,1 : 0
    Unknown (B02A)1,8 : 0
    ExifR98
    ExifR : R98
    Version : 0100
    Thumbnail Information
    Compression : OLDJPEG
    Orientation : left-hand side
    XResolution : 72/1
    YResolution : 72/1
    ResolutionUnit : Inch
    JPEGInterchangeFormat : 40294
    JPEGInterchangeFormatLength : 3157
    YCbCrPositioning : co-sited

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
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    Cool EXIF tells all

    Yeah, that's it ... the images are "blurry" because of slow shutter speed, as anticipated.

    The first being at 1/20th of a second
    The second for 1/30 sec.

    At these speeds, NOTHING - and I mean nothing can move ... not you, the camera, the subject. It is a "No Action" shutter speed
    selection (unless you are panning).

    "SSS" probably worked, here ... but, I suspect the camera would not be as much a problem as the "moving" subjects. I mean, it is
    possible, but "SSS" can usually handle that, at these speeds ... unless you are just being jostled about.

    The rules for freezing motion with Shutter Speed kind of go like this ... but don't hold me to it.

    Normal sitting portrait ... 1/60th, hopefully to prevent 'the blink.'
    Some motion (Children moving around, etc) ... 1/125th usually will do it
    Animated children ... 1/250
    Walking or dancing ... 1/500
    Running ... 1/600 or higher
    Cars in motion ... 1/1000th
    Cars at highway speeds ... 1/2000th or higher

    So from these speed guidelines ... sword fighting and dancing ponies require roughly a minimum of 1/250th
    to 1/500th, to "properly" sharpen them up.

    Using your camera knowledge, based on your current exposure settings (the EXIF Data you provided) ... let's
    just sit down and see through recalculation what lens and camera settings would be to match what you have
    currently and would provide a minimum 1/250th-of-a-second shutter speed.

    Image 1 (current):
    Ev 0
    Focal Length: 60mm
    Aperture: f/5.6
    Shutter Speed: 1/20th sec
    ISO: 1600
    Dist: ~20 ft
    DOF (Calculated): 15 ft

    Calculating for new 0Ev
    New speed: 1/250
    New ISO: 1600
    New Aperture: f/1.8
    new DOF: 3.5 ft
    Selected cost-effective lens that can do this: 50mm f/1.7 ($100)


    Image 2 (current):
    Ev 0
    Focal Length: 45mm
    Aperture: f/5.6
    Shutter Speed: 1/30th sec
    ISO: 1600
    Dist: ~ 20 ft
    DOF (Calculated): 8 ft

    Calculating for new 0Ev
    New speed: 1/250
    New ISO: 1600
    New Aperture: f/2
    new DOF: 3.9 ft
    Selected cost-effective lens that can do this: 50mm f/1.7

    So, in the end, a low-cost Minolta 50mm f/1.7 lens would have provided excellent focus and the shutter
    speed necessary. Unfortunately, you still would have had some noise issues with ISO @ 1600, but that's
    (not trying to sound pompous, here ... just practical) forgivable, considering you are not shooting with a
    "pro" or high-end camera. You use what you have in hand. The intro cameras just don't excel at ISO-1600,
    plain and simple.

    The point of the exercise is, that by analyzing the result of the first shoot, you can get a handle on what
    lens you could bring to the "next" party, indoors, for improved results. Who knows, you may go back!

    (EDIT: Use Manual Mode, not AUTO, Program, Aperture priority or Shutter Priority - and so that 'SONYNUT' doesn't have a stroke ... )


    Just don't forget the new lens.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 05-13-2009 at 05:57 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

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