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Thread: F200exr

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    13
    Quote Originally Posted by dotbalm View Post
    Did you take these photos of your F200?
    yes

    Was this in Aperture mode?
    Actually I used manual mode to get 8s shutter-speed to get more time to capture the photos, as in live-view mode the camera always uses the maximum aperture.

    Was this the only observable difference when you varied the aperture WITHOUT varying the zoom?
    Yes, both where at maximum wideangle-setting only variing the aperture.

    Macro shots of my F30 shows what appears to be a hexagonal iris, but regardless...the attached photos appear to show a fixed iris (pinhole), which is my understanding.
    Thats true, it is a pinhole-aperture, but there are actually two different pinholes.

    Are you suggesting that ring does *not* contain the ND filter?
    After inspecting the pictures I am pretty sure it is a combination of both things, there are two different pinholes, but the difference is not enough for changing F3.3 to F9.
    I think the second aperture seems physically around 5,6 (at wideangle) and the rest to go down to F9 is achieved with a ND-filter.

    The internal reflections changed, so I don't know if the capture camera position changed, the zoom (focal length) of the F200 changed, or what.
    Both shots where handheld, so of course there are differences in the capturing-angle. As I said the only setting on the F200 that have changed is the aperture from F3,3 to F9.

    Instead will you please do the following three tests with your F200?

    This should take less than five minutes:
    I dont have time to do this now but I can tell you there are only 2 apertures at each zoom-setting, but I am pretty sure there are physical two different apertures, but the slower combined with a ND-filter.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    62
    Quote Originally Posted by EXR View Post
    I dont have time to do this now but I can tell you there are only 2 apertures at each zoom-setting, but I am pretty sure there are physical two different apertures, but the slower combined with a ND-filter.
    Thanks for the quick reply, I appreciate the info.

    You know what? No need to do the tests, as you've confirmed only two "apertures" at each zoom setting.

    I snipped most of your answer, but the part above goes to the meat of the issue and is actually not quite what I thought initially, but I agree with you. Looks like there is the main pinhole iris, then another smaller aperture that goes part of the way in reducing light, but isn't so small as to cause major diffraction problems, and the ND filter takes it the rest of the way, all in one unit. Interesting. Well, that's my take du jour.

    Thanks again.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    18
    I would have thought that the 'Sports' mode would take care of that... Otherwise, as cdifoto said, you can just choose a wide aperture and high ISO.

    Anyway, for the OP, Aperture Priority is real, but does indeed consist of only two apertures, wide open and stopped down. Mostly, this will be all you'll want, but I think it is a poor implementation when it would be simple to allow full control. I guess it's the same view that's behind using the old, slow lens from the previous models instead of updating to a 2.8. Fuji have a great idea here in the new sensor, but they've shoved it into an old camera to see if it sells. If it does, I predict they will improve the lens and the control options and put a version of this sensor into a larger body (probably a larger sensor). Still, it is the most interesting thing to hit the ultra-compacts for quite a while, and there are some unexpected benefits, even in this 'prototype'. Jeff's review should be fascinating.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    2

    i don't know what this says, but if my first question

    after seeing the f200 review is 'But is it better than a f30?', either the f30 was such an amazing camera i wonder why the hell it still isn't production, or Fuji have gone backwards so much since.

    from the review, it sounds like f200 is decent, but if someone turned up right now and offered me a f30 in one hand and a f200 in the other, the choice wouldn't be a forgone conclusion. 2-3 years after the f30 was discontinued, please come back...

    having broken 2 f30s, frankly, if they could stick a f30 into an olympus sw tough body, i'd bite the hand off.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    172
    I was generally disappointed by the results in the review (which Jeff did a good job on by the way). You can clearly see the overall softness that Jeff encountered and the limited aperture thing is a let down as well. Yes, it has one stop advantage in low light capability (yawn).

    However, it takes too steep of a let down in other areas to get there IMHO. The whole EXR sensor trick is interesting and I give Fuji praise in at least trying new things (unlike Canon which has become totally stagnant in risk taking). However, overall this is not Fuji's best effort as others have remarked with the f30 as case-in-point.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    62
    Yep, as expected in several ways. Good job on the review. The two apertures per focal length is a problem for those who don't want to use ISO compromises when controlling for shutter speed. The subject motion disappointments are just starting to come out. It's a good camera, but falls short in its hamstrung package. My F30 - notwithstanding the dust - and in competent hands would never be shelved by the F200.

    Re the sports mode comment some time back, I ignored it because usually a camera will juice up the ISO to achieve the right shutter speed, and how could that not frequently happen to the detrement with only two aperture possibilities per focal length.

    Fuji's hype and aspiration for the F200 remind me of playing catch when I was 7 or 8. Long story short: "Nice throw...no catch."

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    172
    Quote Originally Posted by dotbalm View Post
    "Nice throw...no catch."
    I love that quote.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    13
    Actually the review is wrong when saying that you can only use the nice EXR-features in EXR-Mode. Sure, the camera doesn't tell you this in other modes, but when u lower the resolution to 6mp the camera always uses SN or DR mode(which in reality aren't 2 modes either, they are nearly the same, just with different parameters). The only exception is the when you manually select the EXR-HR-mode or the camera selects it automatically in EXR-Auto-mode, then the camera is using HR-mode, even when u set 6m.
    I don't have the possibility to compare the F200 with a F30 but I compared it with a S6500 which has the same sensor and IQ at high ISOs is much better on the F200. Sure, there is a bit more grain on the F200, but there is much more low-contrast-detail and much less color-bleeding on the F200.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    172
    Well, on balance I think Fuji should be commended for venturing out to try new things. However, I fear this is all a bit too complex for most buyers. Just too many variations and modes going on with this camera. If as you say, even Jeff got it wrong on using the EXR feature, then imagine what so many others are going to go through.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Munich, Germany
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    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Cobra View Post
    even Jeff got it wrong on using the EXR feature, then imagine what so many others are going to go through.
    Well, Jeff could really have known it, since it has been pointed out to him long before the review was finished (for example: in posting #6 of this thread). Nevertheless, Fuji's documentation on EXR usage is really poor. Let's hope that they'll get the docs right for future EXR cameras.

    I still think that the F200EXR is a fantastic choice for beginners. They just need someone who sets the resolution to 6MP in the beginning and tells them never to look back.

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