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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    The "INFO" button's function, still is truly undefined, but could offer all sorts of intriguing options, based on event-triggering when a device is added to the base camera, such as a lens or hot-shoe flash.

    From a continuously upgradeable knowledge-base, specifications, performance values and other items of interest, such as a device user manual could be accessed and allow the user to know all the capabilities of their new addition w/o ever having to "crack a book."

    I really like the idea of an on-camera DOF calculator, which could get its information from the specific lens information being generated, eliminating the need of manually adding it in. The confusion between FULL FRAME and APS-C could simply be eliminated.
    While you're pressing your little info button to find out what to do after sticking the flash on top, I've created 50 beautiful images of the bride because I already know WTF I'm doing. In the meantime, the bridesmaids love me and think you're a moron.

    If you're trying to capture important images, the time to figure out how to do so has already passed. If you missed that opportunity to figure things out, slap the damned thing in Auto and take what you can get.
    Last edited by cdifoto; 02-16-2009 at 09:32 PM.
    Ouch.™

  2. #62
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    Feb 2006
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    Again, Rooz ... it beats having NOTHING in the field. I field a lot of basic answers ... "HOW THIS?" "ADJUST WHAT?" "WHAT'S THIS MEAN?"

    You can pass, but I doubt a user only a month into the craft, with their brand new DSLR, is going fair all that well. A quick and easy method to explain ... built right in.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  3. #63
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    Apr 2008
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    Canada
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    This thread is LIES ! Theres no cake And this isn't about advanced thinking, this is about you selling your damn extended info button idea.

    Put it this way, if They put in a "Info" button, it means they started down that path, if they see the info button is giving them more sales, they'll upgrade it, and upgrade it, and so forth like mpix.

    Im sure the nikon info button could be helpful, and i could see a school buying sets of them for students.

    But the confusion between aps-c and fullframe isn't on camera, its on forums. And if a camera would calculate it for them it would make it even worse!

    "Oh em gee, my camera gave me a 2meter DOF and i only paid 500$ Hows that for yah mr. 3k$ full frame!?"

    "Well im only getting 1meter What the fuck i want my money back!"

    That being said, i wouldn't like a professional mathematician to pull out his calculator on simpler equations.

    Knowing your basic DOF from your fstop is pretty much standard, im not saying im capable of putting it into flat numbers, im saying even im used to the difference between f2 or f4 on my specific camera.

    And canon fixed "new d-slr users" with its "CA" mode. Thats far more useful for a new guy, then expecting him to even know what DOF means. You're gonna give him a shitload of information and he won't know what to do with it, sorta like the histogram. Its there, will they use it in the first month ? Nop. Heck, im still not using it.

    So the pro wont use it because like cdi said he knows what hes doing and doesnt waste his time and the amateur won't understand it... So just let sony do it already.
    Last edited by Csae; 02-17-2009 at 08:15 AM.

  4. #64
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    I have to say, you've got me sold on it, 'Csae.' Never have I heard a more effusive diatribe to support my central argument. You know something, you need to use that "gift of gab" and probably would have a tremendous future in the Obama Whitehouse. Tell Gibbs to "move on over, you have arrived!"

    Thanks for the support ... I think.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  5. #65
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Kitchener, ONT, Canada
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    Screw the beginners, I want the 'Info' button to give me DOF calculations for given apertures and focal length, plus the Hyperfocal distances!
    My best pics on Flickr

    Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/garysimmons
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    Gear: Canon 60D, Sigma 18-50 f2.8 EX DC Macro, Sigma 50-150 f2.8 EX DC II, Canon 50 f1.8, Sigma 10-20 f4-5.6 EX DC, Sigma 120-400 DG OS. 1 430EX, 1 430EXII, 1 580EXII, ST-E2, Manfrotto 190XPROB (soon to be replaced by the carbon version)
    Plus filters, wireless triggers and other junk...

  6. #66
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    Thumbs up It's all in there!

    Yes, indeed ... and in a SONY DSLR, it already can.

    A little history:

    Back when Konica-Minolta owned the Camera Division, they developed a new type of lens connection, going from the original five-contact lens to the now eight-contact lens. These three additional contacts were originally designed for a different lens application, at first, but then were re-engineered to provide Automatic Distance Information (ADI) to the camera to assist in flash exposure calculation.

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    I have demonstrated this feature, a couple times ... but most eight-contact Minolta and all eight-contact TAMRON (Minolta/SONY mount) & all SONY lenses provide this. Without a flash attached or the built-in (pop-up) flash deployed, this information is effectively useless.

    But, since focal length (Zoom) information and aperture information is fed to the system for exposure calculation ... combining ADI would generate all the variables necessary for Depth of Field (DOF) Calculation.

    IT IS ALL THERE, ALREADY (with the newer lenses, of course) ... they just need to allow it to be presented. It is almost "rediculous" that they have not deployed this feature ... I tell ya,

    it's in there!

    We just need to get it HERE!

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    The INFO toggle would stay in the last register you left it in, so you could quickly toggle back and forth, as aspects in your frame change.

    Let's say you zoom out to 200mm and your subject is now 20 feet away ...

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    I would have to say, "things are getting a little tighter." A good thing to know would be who actually is in focus, now, eh?
    Last edited by DonSchap; 02-17-2009 at 04:37 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  7. #67
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    Jan 2008
    Location
    Ohio, USA.
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    Don thats neat, and a cool feature to have if you wanted it. When you see the numbers it seems to click more that when you zoom at distance the near and far limits really narrrow down rapidly, I mean 'knowing' that is what happens but then seeing the numbers helps it sink in. And not really the place or the topic but I could use a base tutorial on hyperfocal distance and what do I need that info?
    Where is that info button? LOL
    Sony A700_____________Minolta AF 50mm. F/1.7
    Minolta AF 70-210mm F/3.5-4.5 Tamron AF 17-50mm F/2.8 XR DiII LD Asp. [IF]
    Tamron SP AF 70-200mm. F/2.8 DI LD [IF] Macro
    Tamron AF 70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di LD Macro 1:2
    Tokina AF 28-70mm F/3.5-4.5
    Tokina AF AT-X 80-400mm F/4.5-5.6
    http://flickr.com/

  8. #68
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    Cool The need to KNOW the hyperfocal distance.

    Some quick snipets from http://www.dofmaster.com/hyperfocal.html

    "The concept of hyperfocal distance is easy to understand: focus a lens at the hyperfocal distance and everything in the photograph from some near distance to infinity will be sharp. Landscape photographs are often taken with the lens focused at the hyperfocal distance; near and distant objects are sharp in the photos."


    "Choosing a Lens

    Normal to wide-angle lenses (50mm and shorter lenses on 35mm cameras) are good candidates for hyperfocal distance focusing. These lenses have a relatively short hyperfocal distance when set to larger f-numbers. For example, the hyperfocal distance for a 28mm lens set to f/16 on a 35mm camera is about 5.5 feet. Everything from 2.75 feet to infinity will be sharp in a photograph taken with this lens focused at the hyperfocal distance.

    Telephoto lenses are rarely used for hyperfocal distance focusing. The hyperfocal distance is quite distant with these lenses. For example, the hyperfocal distance for a 200mm lens set to f/16 on a 35mm camera is about 275 feet. Everything from about 138 feet to infinity will be sharp in a photograph taken with this lens focused at the hyperfocal distance. You can see that a 200mm lens isn't useful for taking a landscape photograph in which you want near objects to be sharp."


    I hope this helps, Sean ... I believe it answers your question. Best be careful, we all might learn something on this forum other than, "Ooh, that's a nice shot."
    Last edited by DonSchap; 02-17-2009 at 09:05 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Ohio, USA.
    Posts
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    Ah I see clearly now, all the way to infinity, this makes sense in a very basic way, a bit more reading for sure at dofmaster is in store. Again always seems to be something else to learn and then try to remember, but if you don't do it it several times it slips away. See I would not have "thought' to set a 28mm or even a 50mm to f/16 on my own not enough practical use in the field yet.
    Sony A700_____________Minolta AF 50mm. F/1.7
    Minolta AF 70-210mm F/3.5-4.5 Tamron AF 17-50mm F/2.8 XR DiII LD Asp. [IF]
    Tamron SP AF 70-200mm. F/2.8 DI LD [IF] Macro
    Tamron AF 70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di LD Macro 1:2
    Tokina AF 28-70mm F/3.5-4.5
    Tokina AF AT-X 80-400mm F/4.5-5.6
    http://flickr.com/

  10. #70
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    Feb 2006
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    Sean ... you make the case for me. This is PRECISELY why a DOF Calculator is vital to a good DSLR. You begin to see aspects of your image you could not have probably conceived of, originally.

    Yet, I am taking a lot of flack for even suggesting the camera can already do this ... if someone programming the darn thing would do so and make it available to the user community. It takes no further "accessorizing" or "hardware" improvement. I believe from all I have read concerning the methodology used in ADI that ALL the necessary data inputs(variables) are there, via the built-in flash system.

    I cannot speak for the α900, since it has no built-in flash ... but, it still has the "hot-shoe", so SONY Engineering will have to answer that one. I suspect that ADI still works the same way.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr® & Sdi

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