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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    25

    Editing Digital Photos

    I just installed Photoshop Elements 3 on my labtop and have soon realized I have alot to learn!

    Listed below are a couple of questions I would appreciate some input on. I aplogize in advance for the lengthy message!

    1. I clicked on a photo to edit it and received a message that said "your selection includes photos with print image matching (P.I.M) AND/OR exif print data that provides enhanced printing to Epson Printers. This data will be altered if photos are edited" I have no idea what this means but coincidentally I do have an Epson RX320 printer so was a little concerned as to what type of "enhanced printing" I was impacting when I edited the photos.

    2. My understanding is that each time I edit and save a file it causes the image to be further compressed and therefore loses some level of quality and therefore it is best not to go back and re-edit images that have already been edited. However, my understanding is that this only applies to files saved in the JPEG format and that if images are saved in Photoshop Elements native file format (PSD) this is not the case. In other words, a file in the PSD format can continue to be edited and saved several times and NOT be impacted by further compression and loss of quality. Assuming this is correct it would seem the best thing to do would be to do all edits in PSD and then convert to JPEG when you are finished with all edits. Does this sound correct?


    3. One of the major problems my photographs are impacted by is "Red Eye" due to the Flash. In Paintshop Pro 8 I used to just be able to click on each eye and the color would be adjusted. While the same is true in Photoshop, there seems to be alot of other parameters that need to be set such as pupil size, color, etc.

    I have tried several different parameters and I can't seem to find any that look very natural. In fact I found that the 1 click corrections made in a starter edition of Photoshop Album 2.0 looked better than the ones I tried in Photoshop Elements 3.0.

    Are there any suggested parameters that people have found that seem to work well "most of the time"? I am somewhat disappointed that such a frequent edit does not give a very good output.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    71

    Editing Digital Photos

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn
    I just installed Photoshop Elements 3 on my labtop and have soon realized I have alot to learn!

    Listed below are a couple of questions I would appreciate some input on. I aplogize in advance for the lengthy message!

    1. I clicked on a photo to edit it and received a message that said "your selection includes photos with print image matching (P.I.M) AND/OR exif print data that provides enhanced printing to Epson Printers. This data will be altered if photos are edited" I have no idea what this means but coincidentally I do have an Epson RX320 printer so was a little concerned as to what type of "enhanced printing" I was impacting when I edited the photos.
    Print Image Matching (PIM) is a system designed by Epson to allow you to plug your CF or other memory card directly into the printer and make prints without editing software. I've never had cause to make prints in that fashion, so I personally wouldn't worry about losing that data. I make all of my edits in an editing program and print using the print driver, which bypasses the need for PIM.

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn
    2. My understanding is that each time I edit and save a file it causes the image to be further compressed and therefore loses some level of quality and therefore it is best not to go back and re-edit images that have already been edited. However, my understanding is that this only applies to files saved in the JPEG format and that if images are saved in Photoshop Elements native file format (PSD) this is not the case. In other words, a file in the PSD format can continue to be edited and saved several times and NOT be impacted by further compression and loss of quality. Assuming this is correct it would seem the best thing to do would be to do all edits in PSD and then convert to JPEG when you are finished with all edits. Does this sound correct?
    Your question is really two part. 1) Do I lose some information while editing? The answer to this is yes, any edit you make to an image results in some loss of tone and color information. Usually this is not a problem unless you are correcting severely under/overexposed images. 2) Is there a loss of quality associated with JPEG compresssion? The answer to this question is yes. JPEG compression makes file sizes small by averaging the color and tone data in the file. Each time the information is averaged, some quality is lost. This does not occur if you use a "lossless" file format like PSD or TIFF. An anology might be: Remember when you use to make copies of cassette tapes to make mix tapes for friends? If you made a single copy, the quality was pretty good, but if you made a copy of a copy, the sound quality was poor. Saving a jpeg mutiple times will eventually degrade the quality of the image.


    Quote Originally Posted by quinn
    3. One of the major problems my photographs are impacted by is "Red Eye" due to the Flash. In Paintshop Pro 8 I used to just be able to click on each eye and the color would be adjusted. While the same is true in Photoshop, there seems to be alot of other parameters that need to be set such as pupil size, color, etc.

    I have tried several different parameters and I can't seem to find any that look very natural. In fact I found that the 1 click corrections made in a starter edition of Photoshop Album 2.0 looked better than the ones I tried in Photoshop Elements 3.0.

    Are there any suggested parameters that people have found that seem to work well "most of the time"? I am somewhat disappointed that such a frequent edit does not give a very good output.
    Hmmm. I haven't had the same problem with edits in Elements 3, though I rarely run into red-eye problems. Are you shooting a dSRL or a point and shoot? With a dSLR, you can bounce the flash off the ceiling which solves the red-eye problem.

    Best regards,
    Jay Kinghorn
    RGB Imaging

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Paradise (aka Key West, FL)
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by quinn
    I just installed Photoshop Elements 3 ... Listed below are a couple of questions...

    1. I clicked on a photo to edit it and received a message that said "your selection includes photos with print image matching (P.I.M) AND/OR exif print data that provides enhanced printing to Epson Printers. ...

    2. My understanding is that each time I edit and save a file it causes the image to be further compressed and therefore loses some level of quality...

    ...
    1. Yes, you loose this information, but the loss is, in many situations, a good thing. If you alter the image in the image editing program, some of the old information may no longer be appropriate.

    2. You do not _ever_ loose quality when you open an image saved in a lossy compressed format (i.e. JPEG). The quality is lost only when you save and recompress. When you save in lossless formats, compressed or not, you do not loose information although the edits you made to the image may have caused some loss. Lossless formats include Photoshop PSD, TIFF (compressed or uncompressed), BMP, and some others. PNG can be saved with a variety of compressions options, some lossless and some lossy, and without detailed knowledge of your software's design it should be treated as lossy compression. The fact that JPEG's compression is lossy, creating some loss of images quality, is why the better digital cameras offer the lossless TIFF and/or RAW formats as their highest quality image options.

    I generally save my edited images in Photoshop PSD format. This retains all layers and masks are such, giving the greatest editing power when the file is reopened later. I generally make separate JPEG saves ("Save as Copy" or "Save for Web") when the final format needed for display is JPEG. I avoid ever re-editing the JPEG's; I use the PSD version and resave the updated images as both a PSDs' and JPEG's. In analogy to traditional photographic terms, consider lossless files (PSD, TIFF, ...) as your "original slides or negatives" and JPEG's as "prints for display". Just as you would always dig out the original slide/neg to make a print rather than copy an existing print, you sould dig out the PSD or TIFF to make edits and new JPEG's.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    1,099
    Quote Originally Posted by quinn
    1. I clicked on a photo to edit it and received a message that said "your selection includes photos with print image matching (P.I.M) AND/OR exif print data that provides enhanced printing to Epson Printers. This data will be altered if photos are edited" I have no idea what this means but coincidentally I do have an Epson RX320 printer so was a little concerned as to what type of "enhanced printing" I was impacting when I edited the photos.
    Not too sure about this one. Have you checked the Adobe forums?

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn
    2. My understanding is that each time I edit and save a file it causes the image to be further compressed and therefore loses some level of quality and therefore it is best not to go back and re-edit images that have already been edited. However, my understanding is that this only applies to files saved in the JPEG format and that if images are saved in Photoshop Elements native file format (PSD) this is not the case. In other words, a file in the PSD format can continue to be edited and saved several times and NOT be impacted by further compression and loss of quality. Assuming this is correct it would seem the best thing to do would be to do all edits in PSD and then convert to JPEG when you are finished with all edits. Does this sound correct?
    Yes, if you save in JPEG - you will lose quality each time. It's best to save in PSD and do all your editing first. In the final output file, save it as JPEG if desired.

    Quote Originally Posted by quinn
    3. One of the major problems my photographs are impacted by is "Red Eye" due to the Flash. In Paintshop Pro 8 I used to just be able to click on each eye and the color would be adjusted. While the same is true in Photoshop, there seems to be alot of other parameters that need to be set such as pupil size, color, etc.
    The way to deal with this is to create a Channel mixer adjustment layer and set the Red channel to Red 0%, Green 50%, Blue 50%. That usually does the trick.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    96
    My quick fix for getting rid of red-eye in Photoshop is to use the sponge tool, set it to desaturate, and click on the problem area a couple of times.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    5

    Look @ this

    Look at how did this work.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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