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  1. #31
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    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peekayoh View Post
    I'd go along with that. I need a pretty good reason to spend actual money on a change /upgrade.
    I bought the A700 because my 9000 got "nicked".
    My lenses are all Minolta and 20+ years old.
    My car is 5 years old, got 50k miles on the clock but does 50mpg.
    My Wife's ... nooo, best not go there.
    ...
    lol what car is that?
    flickr

    Canon 7D - 5D | 550EX - 430EX II - (2) PW FlexTT5 | 24-105 f4L | 70-200 f2.8L IS | 100 f2.8L IS | 50 f1.8 II

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peekayoh View Post
    Getting back to the "Noisy ISO" problem; as I've always preferred low ISO film, it's not too much of a hardship to stick to ISO's below 800. However I do feel cheated when you know that rival brands have the advantage in this area, particularly as advancing years mean that slower shutter speeds give me some difficulty (hand held) even with anti shake. It would be galling if this turned out to be a marketing ploy and low noise versions turn up in new bodies. Like someone said, Sony is a Giant Elecronics Company with the expertise to produce the Sensor Hardware so it seems incredible that they are so far adrift in software terms.
    the manufacturer of the hardware, (sensor), is the easy part. the technical expertise to design and drive the processor is quite a different thing altogether. as someone pointed out earlier it took nikon a while to get a handle of things so its no real surprise that sony is lagging behind here.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr4gon View Post
    lol what car is that?
    A Nissan Almera with a 2.2litre common rail direct injection turbocharged diesel engine. Light body, plenty of grunt and quick enough to surprise a few people; plus legendary nissan reliability.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooz View Post
    the manufacturer of the hardware, (sensor), is the easy part. the technical expertise to design and drive the processor is quite a different thing altogether. as someone pointed out earlier it took nikon a while to get a handle of things so its no real surprise that sony is lagging behind here.
    So, are "firmware" ugrades part of the Bionz processor or a separate eeprom style chip?

  5. #35
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    FW updates can only go so far unfortuantely and they are generally reserved for tiny tweeks and fixing simple errors. besides which, it doesnt make sense for manufacturers to make "older" processors peform better. how would they then sell you a new one ? lol
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  6. #36
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    Rooz ... new is not in vogue these days. New can wait ... just ask the car manufacturer's in Detroit. You want NEW ... they got lots of NEW. And they will continue to have lots of NEW ... until it gets real OLD.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  7. #37
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    Jun 2008
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    2,204
    flickr

    Canon 7D - 5D | 550EX - 430EX II - (2) PW FlexTT5 | 24-105 f4L | 70-200 f2.8L IS | 100 f2.8L IS | 50 f1.8 II

  8. #38
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    670
    Quote Originally Posted by dr4gon View Post
    Unfortunately, I don't think it's a very good comparison. It's not very "apples to apples" in several ways -- an obvious one being that he used the crappy 24-120 lens for the D3x tests and compared them to macro primes on the Canon and Sony. And he's shooting at f/11. Yikes.

    Nikon: D300, D700, Nikkor: 24-70, 70-200, 70-300/VR, 24/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.4G, 60/2.8G, 180/2.8,
    Sigma: 10-20, 50-150/2.8, 50/2.8, Tamron: 17-50/2.8, 28-75/2.8, Tokina: 12-24, Zeiss: 25/2.8
    Olympus: E-520, E-3, 7-14, 9-18, 11-22, 12-60, 14-35/2, 14-54, 35-100/2, 50-200, 25/2.8, 35/3.5, 50/2
    Panasonic: G1, Leica: 14-50, 14-150, 25/1.4
    Sony: A700, A900, 24-85, 35-70, 70-210/4, 20/2.8, 24/2.8, 50/2.8, T 90 macro, Zeiss: 24-70/2.8, 135/1.8
    P&S: Canon S90, Panasonic: LX3


  9. #39
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    Nov 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooz View Post
    FW updates can only go so far unfortuantely and they are generally reserved for tiny tweeks and fixing simple errors. besides which, it doesnt make sense for manufacturers to make "older" processors peform better. how would they then sell you a new one ? lol
    In summary then,

    Sony's High ISO performance is substandard compared to rival manufacturers.
    Firmware releases are unlikely to substantially improve the situation.
    Hardware upgrades are probably a non starter for marketing (profit) reasons.
    Chances are a replacement A700 will be out in the spring, maybe with bigger sensor, better noise performance and probably LiveView.

    A putative A700 replacement mean that hardware upgrades from Sony are even less likely (if they ever were) given the economic downturn. This is disastrous for manufacturers relying on volume sales for their profitability and I think I'm right in saying that Sony's Camera Division is not yet in the black. When the new model is released they will need to shift serious volume so, will that mean aggresive pricing and will the current reduced pricing on A700 have cleared stock from the retail channel?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr4gon View Post
    I had a look at this but there seem to be too many variables.
    I compared the two pictures with 100mm macro lens'. For me the A900 was sharper than the 5D and had better colour. Is that typical Minolta colour or the Sensor? No idea.
    Again the A900 seems sharper than the D5 and the Nikon is either backfocussing or not focussed on the bridge. The A900 colour is much more preferable (to my eyes).

    So what does it demonstrate?

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