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  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    670
    Well that concept seems totally cool from a consumer standpoint, Don, but I doubt mfrs would go for that when they can extract much more money from consumers launching a snazzy new body. There's far greater marketing and pricing potential with new bodies than with modular component upgrades. And when your competitors are pulling in $1,000 for a new body, you don't want to be selling sensor upgrades for $400.

    Nikon: D300, D700, Nikkor: 24-70, 70-200, 70-300/VR, 24/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.4G, 60/2.8G, 180/2.8,
    Sigma: 10-20, 50-150/2.8, 50/2.8, Tamron: 17-50/2.8, 28-75/2.8, Tokina: 12-24, Zeiss: 25/2.8
    Olympus: E-520, E-3, 7-14, 9-18, 11-22, 12-60, 14-35/2, 14-54, 35-100/2, 50-200, 25/2.8, 35/3.5, 50/2
    Panasonic: G1, Leica: 14-50, 14-150, 25/1.4
    Sony: A700, A900, 24-85, 35-70, 70-210/4, 20/2.8, 24/2.8, 50/2.8, T 90 macro, Zeiss: 24-70/2.8, 135/1.8
    P&S: Canon S90, Panasonic: LX3


  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Monmouthshire, UK
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    2,152
    I was under the impression that the on sensor A/D processors, 4000 of them, was unique to the Exmoor and that the claimed advantage is reduced noise. It doesn't seem to have worked.

    As for swapping the the Sensor in the Body, thats a great idea but I doubt that Sony would ever make it possible. They just want to sell more bodies.
    Last edited by Peekayoh; 12-13-2008 at 01:03 PM. Reason: Typo

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    9,547
    The mark up on the bodies is not all that much. Actually, from a manufacturing standpoint ... parts upgrades really could be more profitable, both in labor and parts pricing. Perhaps they could re-employ those 4% layoffers or contract third-party to perform the replacements.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,562
    I never heard of a company building something better for there competition. I know one of the DLP TV companies were making all the bulbs but there bulbs were brighter. Not a smart move for Sony.
    Frank
    Sony A77
    Sony A580
    Sony A 100
    Maxxum 400si.
    Sony 18-70 Kit Lens
    Minolta AF 35-70
    Minolta AF 50 f/1.7
    Tamron 70-300 f/4-5.6 Di LD
    Tamron 60mm Macro
    Tamron 17-50 f/2.8
    Tamron 2x Converter
    Sony HVL-F42AM
    Quantaray 70-300 4.5-5.6 Macro
    Slingshot 200 Bag



    http://www.flickr.com/photos/22083244@N06/

    http://s305.photobucket.com/albums/nn219/sparkie1263/

  5. #25
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    Jun 2008
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    2,204
    Nikon just knows how to improve on it better with better processing and algorithms etc.... that's why Sony has some work to do on it's noise reduction!
    flickr

    Canon 7D - 5D | 550EX - 430EX II - (2) PW FlexTT5 | 24-105 f4L | 70-200 f2.8L IS | 100 f2.8L IS | 50 f1.8 II

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    670
    Quote Originally Posted by Peekayoh View Post
    I was under the impression that the on sensor A/D processors, 4000 of them, was unique to the Exmoor and that the claimed advantage is reduced noise. It doesn't seem to have worked.
    AFAIK, all CMOS sensors these days have onboard ADC's for each column.

    Quote Originally Posted by dr4gon
    Nikon just knows how to improve on it better with better processing and algorithms etc.
    ... and don't forget, possibly better transmission / optics through the sensor stack and on-chip electronics too

    Nikon: D300, D700, Nikkor: 24-70, 70-200, 70-300/VR, 24/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.4G, 60/2.8G, 180/2.8,
    Sigma: 10-20, 50-150/2.8, 50/2.8, Tamron: 17-50/2.8, 28-75/2.8, Tokina: 12-24, Zeiss: 25/2.8
    Olympus: E-520, E-3, 7-14, 9-18, 11-22, 12-60, 14-35/2, 14-54, 35-100/2, 50-200, 25/2.8, 35/3.5, 50/2
    Panasonic: G1, Leica: 14-50, 14-150, 25/1.4
    Sony: A700, A900, 24-85, 35-70, 70-210/4, 20/2.8, 24/2.8, 50/2.8, T 90 macro, Zeiss: 24-70/2.8, 135/1.8
    P&S: Canon S90, Panasonic: LX3


  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    2,204
    Quote Originally Posted by e_dawg View Post
    AFAIK, all CMOS sensors these days have onboard ADC's for each column.



    ... and don't forget, possibly better transmission / optics through the sensor stack and on-chip electronics too
    And some more fine lenses to boot
    flickr

    Canon 7D - 5D | 550EX - 430EX II - (2) PW FlexTT5 | 24-105 f4L | 70-200 f2.8L IS | 100 f2.8L IS | 50 f1.8 II

  8. #28
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    Jan 2008
    Location
    Ohio, USA.
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    I have been reading this and thinking About Don's comments. it would make sense to me, and I think would be profitable also for the camera companys to offer upgrades. like the after market options on vehicles. You have bought the camera, most likely some brand name accessories, 'upgrading ' would seem logical. Now from technological standpoint how easy, or how much of a hassle would it be, I don't know. Buy the 700 use it awhile get a feel for it, understand it, understand the limitations, send it in and get the "turbo' package installed for $300.00 or so, I think it would work.
    Sony A700_____________Minolta AF 50mm. F/1.7
    Minolta AF 70-210mm F/3.5-4.5 Tamron AF 17-50mm F/2.8 XR DiII LD Asp. [IF]
    Tamron SP AF 70-200mm. F/2.8 DI LD [IF] Macro
    Tamron AF 70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di LD Macro 1:2
    Tokina AF 28-70mm F/3.5-4.5
    Tokina AF AT-X 80-400mm F/4.5-5.6
    http://flickr.com/

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    One other aspect to all this is ... people keep using what they have.

    How many people are still using a Canon EOS 10D or 20D ... and they have released the EOS 50D. How many upgraded? Only a small percentage ... a lot of people are still happy with what the 20D turns out. They are absolutely going to milk that $1400 initial freight out of it.

    If they could toss another $300 at it for a quick software and hardware upgrade as a noise reduction solution ... I know that is far more palatable than another $1400 camera that basically shoots the same image size.

    C'mon, think it through .. times have changed. Industry better get with it or die with their newer models on the shelf or just never built. Look at the car companies ... beautiful vehicles ... in the car lot ... not in drive ways. People are just driving their old heaps to DEATH! I know I am ... that shabby old 2005 of mine ... Heck, the car dealership I bought it from went and closed their doors. I actually have to go to another dealership just to get routine service. A culling is happening, whether people want to admit it or not. SONY is doing it. The customers will too.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 12-13-2008 at 09:38 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Monmouthshire, UK
    Posts
    2,152
    I'd go along with that. I need a pretty good reason to spend actual money on a change /upgrade.
    I bought the A700 because my 9000 got "nicked".
    My lenses are all Minolta and 20+ years old.
    My car is 5 years old, got 50k miles on the clock but does 50mpg.
    My Wife's ... nooo, best not go there.

    I guess you could say that I don't fit too well in today's Consumer Society. Having said that I'm quite willing to spend if I feel it's justified and brings a worth while advantage.

    Getting back to the "Noisy ISO" problem; as I've always preferred low ISO film, it's not too much of a hardship to stick to ISO's below 800. However I do feel cheated when you know that rival brands have the advantage in this area, particularly as advancing years mean that slower shutter speeds give me some difficulty (hand held) even with anti shake. It would be galling if this turned out to be a marketing ploy and low noise versions turn up in new bodies. Like someone said, Sony is a Giant Elecronics Company with the expertise to produce the Sensor Hardware so it seems incredible that they are so far adrift in software terms.

    So, yes, I'd go along with Don on this one. I may be reluctant to spring for a new body but a Hardware upgrade at a third of the cost could be an attractive alternative.

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