In preparation for the Full Frame

[seanhoxx]

Frank stay AWAY from anyone in the "Brooklyn triangle" go to www.sheddingsomelight.com for a good outline on all these interlinked "companies" and then stay away!
I'm holding out for a $1900.00 a900!
anybody want to buy a kidney?

[dr4gon]

OMG!

$2650 Sony A900 New, LOL!! BUYBUYBUY (ok this is a joke.)

http://www.broadwayphoto.com/cat/Dig...G_CAM_BOD_KIT/

(please don't buy.)
hmmm, I doubt anyone would price match.

[DonSchap]

The B&H Video website, currently (12-1-2008) says they are "out-of-stock" of the A900. Now, this brings up a curious point ... are they out of stock in preparation for a price change? How in the heck can anyone be out-of-stock of a $3000 camera body, when it was just released? Weird part is that Adorama has them in stock ... so how does this work out?

Guess I am just having a hard time rationalizing this, because I know a few folks have bought them ... but, it is not an avalanche at that price.

[Rooz]

sales have not been strong at all. production has severly been curtailed.

[DonSchap]

Darn ... I was hoping they'd have a surplus ... from back in August. Oh well ...

[laydros]

Yeah, I guess a $3000 pro-level camera isn't much of a draw as a Christmas gift, much less in the down economy.

If anybody wants to prove me wrong and give me one for Christmas though......

[DonSchap]

Well, as I had planned to go with the Full Frame (α900), back in Aug 2008, things got kind of interrupted with our economy and those plans got derailed.

Happily, I did purchase several specific "full frame" lenses in preparation for the move and have benefited by having them handy as, apparently, SONY systematically assassinated the availability of many of them in the past year or so, to promote their own release of lenses. (It's complicated!) Those lenses were:

• SONY CZ 135mm f/1.8
• TAMRON SP AF 14mm f/2.8 Aspherical IF Rectilinear
• Konica-Minolta AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 "D"
• TAMRON SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF) Macro
• TAMRON SP AF 70-200mm f/2.8 Di LD Macro
• TAMRON SP AF 200-500mm f/5-6.3 Di LD

Anyway ... I can happily report that I am getting some very decent results with the KM AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 "D", which I brought for a nominal $379 and having not had to break the bank for the SONY CZ 16-35mm f/2.8 to get decent results in the wide angle realm.

SONY has also recently released their version of a "cheaper" 28-75 mmm lens in the form of the AF 28-75mm f/2.8 SAM ($799), which is turning out to be the very utilitarian and highly regarded TAMRON SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF) (Minolta-mount) ($389) lens from 2004 and still available for ~$449. (<- Click on link)

Again, seeing the "writing on the wall" helps in making these decisions.

Last August, I purchased the α850 Full Frame DSLR ($700 cheaper than the α900) and finally began putting all this glass to work, figuring I had prudently and easily shaved nearly $3000 off the possible costs by going the high-end SONY route to do so.

There are decisions you can easily make that will shape your hobby nicely, if you just take a moment and plan it out. It may not be the way other people see fit to do it ... but, the last time I checked, these people were not running up to me and ... stuffing money in my pockets, either!

There will be another, humbly offered, "I told ya so" when the time comes.

[Peekayoh]

My FF strategy from digital day one was very simple. Never buy a DT lens! Not only does this ensure a painless transition back to FF but has the added advantage, on APS-C, of using the sweet spot of the lens and consigning the oft inferior fringes of the FF image circle to the dustbin.

This is quite apparent in the case of the KM 17-35mm/f2.8-4 which performs much better on the A700 than it did on my FF film SLR's. You can disguise the shortcomings of the lens by judicious positioning of the subject and using DOF to defocus the fringes of the image but this is not always possible, particularly with Architectural (distortion aside) shots, where the abysmal corner performance is all too evident until stopped down to at least f9/f11. Annoyingly, at the longer end, the lens was completely outperformed by my 28-135mm so I often took this much heavier lens plus a 21 or 24mm prime for the wider end. On the A700, however, the lens is blessed with a new lease of life.

Don, if you're wondering why I'm rubbishing my own glass, it's simply to make the point that I don't see how you can be completely satisfied with the FF performance of this lens on the A900 when you are used to the superior results from other lenses you have available. I'm thinking ..
14mm f2.8 Tamron
20mm f1.8 Sigma
24mm f2.8 Minolta
135mm f1.8 Zeiss
135mm f2.8 STF Sony
180mm f3.5 Tamron
200mm f2.8 APO G Minolta

Maybe you should stick to primes or get the 16-35mm Zeiss. The Zeiss completely blows away both the KM 17-35mm and the G offering in terms of edge and corner resolution.

I wonder how your Tokina 20-35mm performs against the Minolta?

How about sticking your 1.4x on the Sigma 10-20mm for a 14-28mm?

[DonSchap]

How about sticking your 1.4x on the Sigma 10-20mm for a 14-28mm?

This was a fascinating idea ... and I guess I honestly never gave it a thought. Peter, where did you come up with it?

Anyway, I tried it out and it amazingly looked pretty cool on the α850 Full Frame. The standard APS-C (SIGMA "DC") lens vignette disappeared with the lens set to 10mm (effectively 14mm on the 1.4x T/C) and seemed to be a relatively sharp looking image. Yes, 1 f-stop darker, but what the heck? I will try it outdoors, tomorrow, as a follow up.

The "T/C" has freed me to use this DC Zoom lens, literally, "Full Frame" w/o much in the way of negative side effects. Sure, it's not 10mm ... but, doing it like this has definitely has given the lens new life on the α850. A 14-28mm f/5.6-8 UWA Zoom for no extra cost. That part is awesome!

If it works to acceptable levels, it would beat spending $725 for a SIGMA AF 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 DG EX ...

I mean it is a very nice lens with lots of excellent glass elements inside of it ...

but, a bit too costly in lieu of little advantage. Perhaps, if it were a bit brighter, I could talk myself into it.

I wonder how your Tokina 20-35mm performs against the Minolta?

The issue with the Tokina AF 20-35mm f/3.5-4.5 is that it is significantly narrower, darker and requires AF Micro Adjustment to correct its back-focus. Personally, I think the K-M AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 'D' does quite well on the α850.

Thank you very much for these suggestions, my friend. They will make for some interesting side-by-sides, in days to come.

[DonSchap]

Okay ... I did a short side-by-side with the newly "created" T/C enhanced 14-28 f/5.6-8 against the TAMRON SP AF 14mm f/2.8 ... and as you might expect ... image quality sharpness took a major hit. Working at such dark apertures (f/5.6) indoors makes everything a challenge, as you might expect, but sharpness is not one of those aspects.

Here is the base image, reduced, at a distance of three feet @ 14mm:



Here are a pair of 100% crops ... with just an exchange of the lenses

SIGMA AF 10-20mm f/4-5.6 DC EX @ 10mm w/ 1.4x T/C (wide open - eff. f/5.6) . . . . . . . . . . . . . TAMRON SP AF 14mm f/2.8 Aspherical (IF) @ f/5.6 . . . .

These are not center crops and you can see the image softness introduced by the addition of the T/C and that is one of the unfortunate side effects of employing them in your photography.


I will edit this post as I process the other shots, comparing the T/C combo against the K-M AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 'D'.

EDIT:

Here is the base image, reduced, at a distance of three feet @ 17mm:

SIGMA AF 10-20mm f/4-5.6 DC EX @ 10mm w/ 1.4x T/C (wide open - eff. f/5.6) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . K-M AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 'D' @ f/6.3 . . . . .

Again, you can see the fuzziness that the T/C introduces as these two crops depict. Same focal point ... again, pretty dark at f/6.3 (widest available aperture for the combo @ 17mm, but check out Snoopy's magnifying glass reflections.

I guess if you are looking for the sharpness you often want out of your lens ... using a T/C is, more often than not, a mistake. It bears out the same thing here. You are forced to take a very dark image ... and adding a dulling effect to the image quality. But then again, going to the SIGMA AF 12-24mm f/4.5-5.6 DG EX is hardly entering a panacea of light.

@ Peter: I would determine from this rather limited examination that it is the ultimate 12mm (122° AOV) focal length and image quality where the UWA SIGMA will excel. If you can live with the dulling effect of the T/C ... the 14-28mm f/5.6-8 "creation" may be a quick and dirty, but not a truly "wholesome" solution. So, I am left to wonder ... live with it or go for the image quality? The leveler in the argument is the PRIME lens, the TAMRON SP AF 14mm f/2.8 Aspherical (IF), which instantly adds 2 full f/stops of light into the scenario along with excellent image quality. That is just killer.