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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Arrow Nine 10MP DSLRs - Noise at ISO1600 Comparison

    The cameras in the comparison:

    Canon EOS 40D
    Canon EOS XTi
    Canon EOS 1D Mark III
    Nikon D40x
    Nikon D80
    Nikon D200
    Olympus E410
    Olympus E510
    Olympus E3
    Pentax K10D
    Sony A100
    Sony A200

    All it`s clear - let your eyes speak



    The reference image:


    For the comparative image are used 100% crops of the originals !

    Last edited by dolphin; 01-23-2008 at 01:23 AM. Reason: three more cameras added

  2. #2
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    Dec 2007
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    19
    Bottom image doesn't work. Don't know if it's me...

  3. #3
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    Jan 2005
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    OK - this is mostly as I would expect - except for the D200 and the XTi
    something seems to have gone wrong there!!
    Overall - I would say standards are getting better (- some better than others!!)
    Geoff Chandler. UK/England/Surrey
    NIKON D90 / D80. Nikon 16 - 85 VR, Tamron 28-200,
    Sigma 70-300APO, Tokina 100 AT-X Pro D.
    SB600 flash. Panasonic DMC-TZ25

    http://geof777.multiply.com

  4. #4
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    Red face Compare apples with apples, at least

    Use the α700 or the α200 over the α100 ... the α100 is not even in production these days. Its ISO-1600 performance was dubious. ... depending on what version software you were running.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  5. #5
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    Dec 2007
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    The Nikons seem to have the edge...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkerjc View Post
    The Nikons seem to have the edge...
    Don't get fooled by this flawed test though. For a little more accurate idea bout noise performance read the dpreview reviews of these cameras (and see the samples given there).

    The Nikons all do chroma noise filtering, and they lose details as a result.
    You can not fully turn that off, even in RAW the Nikons filter some noise.
    The Olympus uses a HUGE amount of filtering, losing even more detail in the process.

    If you filter that noise in the photos taken with a Canon and Pentax, things level. The 40D has the edge over all these cameras, the XTi does not do bad either.
    The Pentax K10D, Nikon D200/D80/D40X and Sony A100/200 all use the same sensor family. The Nikon D40X uses the most processing of all three Nikon models, which you can see in high ISO photos (lots of detail being eaten away, strange resulting artifacts).

    The best advice for high ISO shooting: make sure you expose well.
    Canon EOS 350D, Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 macro, Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 DC EX, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM, Tokina AT-X124 Pro 12-24mm F4, Soligor 1.7x C/D4 DG Teleconvertor, Manfrotto 724B tripod, Canon Powershot S30

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Chicago, IL USA
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    935
    Quote Originally Posted by coldrain View Post
    The Nikons all do chroma noise filtering, and they lose details as a result.
    You can not fully turn that off, even in RAW the Nikons filter some noise.
    I believe the new Nikons (D300 and D3) do not filter any noise at all if you turn the "noise reduction" settings to off. There may be the slightest chroma noise reduction still in Jpeg, but in RAW it looks to be... well... RAW. Here are some photos of the Rush Hour "3-Pack" DVD set (it was the first thing I grabbed).

    (Below) Straight Jpeg (Large/Fine) from the camera, noise reduction turned "off", purposely overexposed by 2/3 to show more detail in the blacks. Only post process was 100% crop as shown:



    (Below) Shot in 12 bit RAW and converted to Jpeg in Capture NX. Noise reduction turned "off", porposely overexposed 2/3 to show more detail in blacks. No additional post process (except 100% crop).



    As you can see the RAW image shows a bit more noise. I cant tell if this is the difference between in-camera Jpeg compression vs. post process jpeg conversion or if it is in fact some small amount of noise reduction. My file size for the RAW to Jpeg is 8.89 MB, and the Straight Jpeg is 7.58 MB, so there may be something going on in the camera that compressed the Jpeg image more than what Capture NX does. This could result in a loss of detail and possibly "clean up" some of the noise in the image.

    My tests are confirmed in dpreview.com's tests of the Sony A-700, where they do compare it to the D300. Here is a quote from that review:

    Below we have a comparison of in-camera JPEG to RAW converted using Adobe Camera RAW with its Noise Reduction options set to zero (effectively 'no noise reduction'); RAW NONR. As you can see the Nikon D300's RAW images are just that, warts and all (but at least this means you can run your own noise reduction on them if you wish and you are getting the 'digital negative').

    So, I think you will have to amend your noise reduction theory to include the D300 as one camera that does not do any noise reduction in its RAW images. Unfortunately, I can not confirm if the Jpeg is in fact free of any in-camera noise reduction.
    Last edited by VTEC_EATER; 01-23-2008 at 04:02 PM.
    Nikon D300 | MB-D10 | Nikkor 12-24/4 | Nikkor 50/1.8 | Nikkor 70-200/2.8 VRI | Sigma 18-50/2.8 | SB-800 | SB-80DX (x4) | Radiopopper JrX Studio |

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    30

    Arrow

    I added more three 10MP cameras:

    Canon EOS 1D Mark III
    Olympus E3
    Sony A200



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTEC_EATER View Post
    I believe the new Nikons (D300 and D3) do not filter any noise at all if you turn the "noise reduction" settings to off.
    Both the D300 and D3 also reduce noise before RAW is saved (and probably do some other processing too).
    They just do it less than other models before them.

    Do you see the "light" spots in the dark areas? You do not see that in other cameras. This is a Nikon chroma noise reduction artifact. It first appeared like this in the Nikon D200.

    When I use the chroma noise filter in my Canon DPP RAW converter you get the same kind of light noise dots.

    Another tell tale sign: Sony uses a same processor design in its A700 as Nikon uses in the D300. Look at how different they are in this respect.
    What makes Sony worse is that they also use a very smearing noise reduction in the sensor itself (according to Sony), which shamefully you can not turn off.
    Just ask yourself... how come the Sony A700 with a Sony CMOS has very Canon like chroma noise, but the Nikon D300 a Sony CMOS of the same generation has a lack of chroma noise?
    Yes... the chroma noise has been filtered, and replaced by "surrounding colour" but with the smae light intensity the chroma noise pixel had. This results in the "dithering" white speckled Nikon images we know of the D200, D300 and D3.
    And as you can see in your own image, there is quite a loss of detail already in the processed RAW image you posted. Just try reading the small text on the back of the DVDs!

    Does that make the Nikon noise reduction something bad? No of course not. But it does flatter straight out of camera results if one chooses to ignore noise reduction has been applied (both in JPEG and RAW).
    It does not say anything about which camera is capable of the best results (unless you are anti post processing of course).

    It does make Nikon cameras less usable for certain applications though.
    Here is an interesting article for you (about the D3 and D300):
    http://www.astrosurf.com/~buil/nikon_test/test.htm

    Older article about the D70:
    http://www.astrosurf.com/buil/d70v10d/eval.htm
    Last edited by coldrain; 01-23-2008 at 04:37 AM.
    Canon EOS 350D, Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 macro, Sigma 18-50mm F2.8 DC EX, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 L USM, Tokina AT-X124 Pro 12-24mm F4, Soligor 1.7x C/D4 DG Teleconvertor, Manfrotto 724B tripod, Canon Powershot S30

  10. #10
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    Feb 2006
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    Thumbs up Ahh, that's better

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I added more three 10MP cameras:

    Canon EOS 1D Mark III
    Olympus E3
    Sony A200


    Why make the α200, if you couldn't improve it?

    Well, just doing the mere comparison between the two SONY Alphas ... I think Coldrain has some serious reconsideration this week, on this low-cost beauty. LOL

    Good job!
    Last edited by DonSchap; 01-23-2008 at 07:10 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

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