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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    Red face If frogs had wings ...

    Well, the day has finally come ... and one I never really thought would.

    I'm actually buying a SIGMA brand lens that I want. LOL

    Yeah, add it to the gearhead's list: SIGMA 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX DC (SONY mount)

    Name:  Sigma_10-20mm-001.jpg
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    Now, I thought I would have no problem with waiting on buying this lens ... as the local store had three of these SONY-compatibles, last week, at Calumet Photography, in Oak Brook. Today ... Zero! What the heck?

    I made mention of how this was the preferred lens in Great Britain and wham ... sold out. Next time ... I'm waiting until I have mine, first, before I say anything like that again. Even the guy on the phone was going on about how much he liked this particular lens. Admittedly, the construction seemed a bit more thought out, for this lens. Less light bending in the first few elements. That's gotta result in less distortion and sharper imaging.

    SIGMA 10-20mm
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    TAMRON 11-18mm
    Name:  TAMRON 11-18 const.JPG
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    So, okay ... my SIGMA-cherry is gone! Both the SONY 11-18mm and the TAMRON 11-18mm are inferior in comparison (they're the same lens - shhh, don't tell anyone), plus they're both more expensive, too. Guess you are paying for that "extra" element. (A nod to "Coldrain") The apparent quality of output is not especially reflected in the price.

    Yes, I'm giving up the TAMRON 6-year warranty for a better shot. Oh, the trade-offs I make. I'm so ashamed ...
    Last edited by DonSchap; 01-18-2008 at 03:42 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,760
    pretty dark lens

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
    Posts
    9,560
    This is a pretty "standard" base aperture for most wide-angle zooms.

    The TAMRON 11-18mm is f/4.5-5.6
    The Canon 10-22mm is f/3.5-4.5
    The SIGMA 12-24mm is f/4
    The Tokina 12-24mm is f/4
    The Nikon 12-24mm is f/4 ...
    there is a bright side ...
    The Nikon 14-24 f/2.8 <- a rare find.

    Anyway ... here's to the dark side ... which is a good segway to ...

    my intent, which is to start taking "architectural shots" of local homes for the upcoming realty/government farce when everyone gets tossed to the curb for not paying on their enormous mortgages. It's weird, no matter how many times I think about this, I realize that the government really allowed this happen to just raise property taxes with all these super-high mortgages. Then ... the bottom fell out.

    Anyway ... all these houses are for up sale and they need to be photographed. Like they say, a time and place for everything ... even opportunistic photography. Beats being a paparazzi I suppose. The subjects don't run off, get drunk or drive over people.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    9,560
    Okay ... the SIGMA AF 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX DC came, today. I unboxed that bad boy and fired up the ol' α700, to give it a shot.

    Okay, at 10mm ... f/4 isn't going to be an option for sharp focus, close up. It's rather fuzzy. Even with flash ... nothing sharp, Repeated focus ... no improvement. It looks as though going to f/8 may have to do for the bulk of the heavylifting. I sort of expected this level of performance, but I had hoped. 10mm does offer one hell of a view, though, as you might expect. Almost wall to wall, so to speak.

    The weather, here, is getting way too slippery to chance running around with it, in the near future. I'll do some other focusing tests, later tonight .... but as lenses go, this remains to be seen ... (don't they all?)
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
    Posts
    10,424
    hmm, i gotta disagree with you here Don. even wide open at 10mm the sigma is still pretty sharp in the center. the borders sharpness and distortions are where the issues lie.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    9,560

    Red face Some lurid test results ...

    Well ... I did some comparisons, using a tripod, against the TAMRON SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8
    and I wasn't thrilled by the SIGMA 10-20mm f/4-5.6 in the comparison.

    I set both lenses to 17mm (lens barrel indicated) @ f/5.6, which is the best the SIGMA can do at this focal length. I simply swapped the lenses ... and multifocused for the best shot.

    I place the 100% crops side-by-side to compare them.

    Here are the results:

    SIGMA 10-20mm @ 17mm f/5.6 original image
    Name:  10-20 17 f56 full.jpg
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    SIGMA 10-20 100% crop
    Name:  10-20-17-f56-100.jpg
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    SIGMA ^

    TAMRON V
    Name:  17-50-17-f56-100.jpg
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    TAMRON 17-50 100% crop

    Name:  17-50 17 f56 full.jpg
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    TAMRON 17-50mm @ 17mm f/5.6 original image


    Then I set the new SIGMA lens for 10mm ... at the same f/5.6 exposure ... just to be fair.
    Name:  10-20 f56 10 100.jpg
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    Then upped it f/8
    Name:  10-20 f8 10 100.jpg
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    Then finally f/11
    Name:  10-20 f11 10 100.jpg
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    I'm sorry, but 10mm is significantly softer at f/5.6. I'm shooting at the minimum focal length ... which is neither here nor there ... but demonstrates the truly nice close-up cabilities of these two lenses. Unfortunately, you have to crank down on the aperture, at 10mm, to sharpen your focus to a reasonable level with the SIGMA.

    Is it me, or does the TAMRON seem a little better at color, also?

    I'll look at distortion, later.
    Last edited by DonSchap; 01-22-2008 at 09:25 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
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    oh come on. you have to compare like for like. the 17-50 tammie is an exceptionally sharp f2.8 lens. chalk and cheese Don.
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    Question Use what you have, eh?

    Rooz ... you use what you have handy. I suppose I could toss it up against the "freebie" SONY DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 kit lens ... but a $500 lens against a ... freebie? That's fair?

    The TAMRON AF 18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di-II LD wouldn't put up much of a fight because it is just too much of a compromise in focal length. It was built for convenience, not sharpness end-to-end. I kind of expect that out of these shorter-distance focal lengths, though.

    The 17-50mm was designed exceptionally well, there is no doubt. It is a staple for many photographers. Personally, I do not plan on having two UWA lenses in my bag. Shooting it against another will be kind of rough. I've already conceded that it probably shoots better than the TAMRON SP AF 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 Di-II LD, by design alone. That's kind of why I broke down and bought the SIGMA AF 10-20mm f/4-5.6 DC EX in the first place.

    Honestly, I wish I really could use my TAMRON SP AF 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6 Di-II LD for a comparison shoot, but I have nothing to hang it off of these days. I sold the only body I had that it could ride on to a fellow DCRPer. It's, unfortunately, a Canon-mount. I can't even use it on my Canon EOS-3 35mm-film camera body ... because of it being a Di-II design only for APS-C sensors.

    But, be that as it may, even you can see the focus softening from the 17mm-shot to the 10mm-shot, and that's really where my complaint lies, if any. I'll have to use the tighter aperture (f/8 or f/11) to make up the difference. I hoped I had successfully pointed that out. Guess not, huh?
    Last edited by DonSchap; 01-22-2008 at 09:46 PM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    God's Country - Australia
    Posts
    10,424
    like for like is referring as much to the type of lens rather than the cost. you can compare a #300 sigma 50mm macro lens and then be devastated at how sharp it is compared to more expensive glass. the sigma is a wide angle lens. i think if you compare the res figures of "like lens'" it stacks up pretty well. (although if i had my time again i'd buy the tokina).

    i appreciate what you're saying and what you're indicating in your test, my point i guess is perhaps you need to learn how to use it and for what purpose. here you go...this guy seems to have the hang of it. be warned its used on just a piece of shit d40 though.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/markgibson/
    D800e l V3 l AW1 l 16-35 l 35 l 50 l 85 l 105 l EM1 l 7.5 l 12-40 l 14 l 17 l 25 l 45 l 60 l 75
    flickr

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Des Plaines, IL
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    Cool Raw aperture power!

    He's shooting at f/16, for goodness sake.

    And "SONYNUT" was worried about being too dark.

    Oh, I give up!

    Anyway ... one last comparison, later tonight (1/23), ... the stout Tokina AF 20-35mm f/3.5-4.5 against the SIGMA AF 10-20mm f/4-5.6 DC EX @, of course, 20mm @ f/5.6 <= right where they meet!

    Just so the complaining is hedged ... LOL. My Tokina is over 10-years-old, so it should be a real battle ... on the order of GrandDad against GrandSon. "Hey s-s-sonny, be there!"
    Last edited by DonSchap; 01-23-2008 at 11:55 AM.
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

    flickr & Sdi

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