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Thread: Apature

  1. #101
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    Question 100 postings !!! Can you believe it?

    You know, there this bridge in Brooklyn, they've been trying to sell since forever ... and lakeshore property on this volcanic island ...

    Look, Razr, you're a sharp guy ... don't you have a way to test the explanations out?

    Keep a record of your settings ... and try to get back to us with a list out. I'm really interested in seeing some tangible results to back up this array of rather dubious and inaccurate discussion that are leading to the bleeding edge of "non-discovery", because I know I sure as hell can't get the lenses to do what you say with what I have, here ... and I do have a lens or two.

    Thanks
    Don Schap - BFA, Digital Photography
    A Photographer Is Forever
    Look, I did not create the optical laws of the Universe ... I simply learned to deal with them.
    Remember: It is usually the GLASS, not the camera (except for moving to Full Frame), that gives you the most improvement in your photography.

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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razr View Post
    1. I got no problem with that, except they said "optimum apertures", (plural).

    2. Generally quoted as being "the sweet spot" or "two stops down from the maximum aperture".

    3. My precise point all along.

    4. I never said so nor have I ever suggested you could (use an unavailable aperture-duh.)
    1. They use the plural because different lenses have different optima and the optimum may vary with focal length. A 17mm f/8 may be best while at 70mm f/5.6.

    2. Yes, I know they call it the sweet spot too. But optimum aperture is a more easily understandable term for readers with little knowledge of photography. Two stops down from the maximum is not even accurate. Sometimes one stop down will reach the optimum, sometimes 3 stops is needed.

    3. No, that is not your precise point all along. You forget that the word 'that' in my sentence refers to a medium apperture and not the maximum apperture.

    4. You suggested it, you implied it, and you even said it explicitly. You said a 17-70 f/2.8-4.5 can shoot at f/2.8 at 70mm. It simply cannot. Thus, f/2.8 is an unavailable apperture at 70mm which cannot be used.
    Nikon D-50
    // Nikkor 70-300 f/4-5.6 VR // Nikkor 50 mm f/1.8
    // Sigma 17-70 f/2.8-4.5 ...// Nikon SB-600
    // Sigma 10-20 f/4-5.6......// Nikon Series E 135 mm f/2.8
    // Kiron 105 f/2.8 Macro....// Manfrotto 190XPROB + 488RC4
    // Nikkor 35 f/1.8..........// Sigma 500 mm f/8

    My website: http://www.dennisdolkens.nl

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Schnoor View Post
    Let's look at another resource, say the manufacturer of your 4/3rds cameras of choice(Olympus):
    Olympus/Zuiko makes some variable max-aperture zoom lenses for their 4/3rds cameras. I especially like how they have DOF values on their website for their lenses.

    http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...8-35/index.asp

    http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...8-35/index.asp

    http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...8-35/index.asp

    What I can't understand is why there is no DOF info on these lenses at the middle range or long end for say f/2.8 and no DOF info on these lenses at the long end for say f/3.2. Could it possibly be because Olympus/Zuiko does not know how to "lock" the aperture at f/2.8 in Av mode for the entire zoom range, or because zooming these lenses causes the max aperture to change from f/2.8 to f/3.5 as it says in their literature/website. Hmmmmmmmmm?

    edit: I hope that this is not just a limitation of the 4/3rds format.

    Ray.
    Quote Originally Posted by Razr View Post
    Because they didn't test (never test) the lenses using f/2.8 in Av mode? ?? what does f/3.2 have to do with it? As I noted before and even with OLYMPUS, all such "tests" are conducted in "P" mode, not Av. And the aperture (no matter which is chosen) is locked in Av.
    It's just must be coincidental how Olympus provides DOF data at f/2.8 for this lens at the long end of the zoom range

    http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...0_28/index.asp

    but fails to do the same for this lens at the long end of the zoom range

    http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_se...8-35/index.asp

    if your assertion is true that when you set the aperture value at f/2.8 at the short end of the zoom it stays a constant f/2.8 as long as you are in Av or M mode.
    Quote Originally Posted by Razr View Post
    Only if you are in "P" (PROGRAM) or "A" (AUTOMATIC) modes.
    The aperture stays the same in "Av" and "M" (MANUAL) mode, no matter what focal length you choose, making any f/2.8-f4.5 etc. lens a "fast"-constant apeture lens throughout the zoom range.
    I wonder why they didn't make an attempt to supply that DOF info?????

    Ray.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Schnoor View Post
    "In addition, aperture priority mode allows the photographer to force the camera to operate the lens at its optimum apertures within the limits of maximum/minimum aperture for a given focal length of the lens."

    OK! There we go.

    Ray.
    Ray, please do us all a GIGANTIC favor and post that correction to Wikipedia so that Razr can't use Wikipedia to support his ridiculous word games. Thanks.

    --------------------------------------
    Razr:

    By the way, the below statement is STILL wrong...and I have seen nothing posted by you to acknowledge that its wrong. Nothing that you can write or quote can make it right:

    Quote Originally Posted by Razr View Post
    Only if you are in "P" (PROGRAM) or "A" (AUTOMATIC) modes.
    The aperture stays the same in "Av" and "M" (MANUAL) mode, no matter what focal length you choose, making any f/2.8-f4.5 etc. lens a "fast"-constant apeture lens throughout the zoom range.
    How about this?:

    Quote Originally Posted by Razr View Post
    I never said so nor have I ever suggested you could (use an unavailable aperture-duh.)
    Oh yes you did my friend...read it again...and again...and again...you're never getting away from this one...
    Quote Originally Posted by Razr View Post
    Only if you are in "P" (PROGRAM) or "A" (AUTOMATIC) modes.
    The aperture stays the same in "Av" and "M" (MANUAL) mode, no matter what focal length you choose, making any f/2.8-f4.5 etc. lens a "fast"-constant apeture lens throughout the zoom range.
    Your Kafka-esque/Orwellian approach would be better suited if this were some kind communist totalitarian environment and you were the information minister (scary, eh?). They need people like you in North Korea...

    Also...what kind of "pro" gets their information from Wikipedia and uses it to defend a statement that is wrong? You're a pro alright...although at something that has very little to do with photography (unless you count photographing bulls defecating).

    ----------------------------
    Update:

    Hey, it's a couple of hours later and I just checked aaaaaaannnnnd...yep...ITS STILL WRONG!!!!!

    I'll check again later in a couple of hours to see whether the laws of physics have changed, or a parallel universe exists or if there's been some major technological breakthrough...a lot can happen in two hours.
    Last edited by JTL; 10-25-2007 at 02:48 PM.
    Some Gear: Nikon D700; Nikkor AF-S 50 f/1.4 G; Nikkor AF-S 24-85 3.f/5-4.5 G ED; Tamron 28-300 f/3.5-6.3 VC; Nikon SB-800; Velbon Maxi-F; Canon Pixma Pro 9000; Canon S3IS, Canon SD500; Epson 4990; Epson P5000; Wacom Intuos 3

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  5. #105
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    lol i can't believe this. i really can't.
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  6. #106
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    Reading this thread has been like watching a train wreck in slow motion. It's tragic and terrible and senseless--and I can't look away.
    Adam
    -------------
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    A bunch of cheap vintage film cameras


    My Etsy store

  7. #107
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    LOL
    It's me against the world and the world is wrong. Naturally.
    Nikon D90, D80
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razr View Post
    I never said so nor have I ever suggested you could (use an unavailable aperture-duh.)
    Sorry M8, but that's what you've ben saying all along. You have siad that a lens that has a max aperture of f/2.8-3.5 can use f/2.8 along the whole zoom range and that is using an unavailable aperture because at the long end of the zoom f/2.8 is "unavailable as its max aperture is f/3.5.

    Can you please explain to all of us what a max aperture of f/2.8-3.5 really means if it doesn't mean that the max aperture is variable and changes as the lens zooms. Why would manufacturers lable their lenses this way if it is not true? Don't you think if the lens could be set to f/2.8 across the entire zoom range, the manufacturer would advertise this as to sell more of the product. Come on M8, get your head out of the clouds and stop this none sense.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonSchap View Post
    You know, there this bridge in Brooklyn, they've been trying to sell since forever ... and lakeshore property on this volcanic island ...

    Look, Razr, you're a sharp guy ... don't you have a way to test the explanations out?

    Keep a record of your settings ... and try to get back to us with a list out. I'm really interested in seeing some tangible results to back up this array of rather dubious and inaccurate discussion that are leading to the bleeding edge of "non-discovery", because I know I sure as hell can't get the lenses to do what you say with what I have, here ... and I do have a lens or two.

    Thanks
    No test needed: and here's why:
    From Wikipedia:
    "In addition, aperture priority mode allows the photographer to force the camera to operate the lens at its optimum apertures.
    Any person with the slightest bit of knowledge about the brute mechanical end of photogrpahy knew/knows what Wikipeida says (above) is 100% true.
    The operative phrase being: "allows the photographer to force the camera to operate the lens at its optimum aperure":
    which means from wide open or anywhere in-between.

    If you have any differences about what I said about aperture priority, take it up with Wikipedia, which literally pimp slapped all your uninformed arguments.

  10. #110
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    RAZR,
    Can a photographer use F2.8 at 70 mm on a Sigma 17-70 F/2.8-4.5?
    Nikon D90, D80
    Nikkor 16-85mm AF-S DX F/3.5-5.6G ED VR, Tamron SP AF 28-75mm F/2.8 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF) macro, Nikkor 50mm F/1.4D, Nikkor 50mm F/1.8D, Nikkor AF-S VR 70-300mm F/4.5-5.6G IF-ED, Sigma 105mm F/2.8 EX DG Macro ||| 2x SB800 | SB600 ||| Manfrotto 190XB

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